MMA - Fighting Styles

[Fifty]

I'm sick of people talking about the following fighting styles as if they are somehow great or dominant in comparison to other styles.

The following styles suck:

1. Karate
2. Tae-kwon-do
3. Kung-fu
4. Krav Maga

There, now you all know whenever someone talks about one of those styles, they are talking about styles that suck.

 

[jonatas]

Tae-Kwon-Do has some really nasty kicks though, that you could incorporate into some other style. I would say a combination of Jiu-Jitsu, with its groundwork and submissions, plus Kickboxing for your stand-up is probably the best combination.

 

[Fifty]

Tae-Kwon-Do has some really nasty kicks though, that you could incorporate into some other style. I would say a combination of Jiu-Jitsu, with its groundwork and submissions, plus Kickboxing for your stand-up is probably the best combination.

nah TKD kicks are inneffective against other fighting styles. The cornerstone of a good MMA fighter:

1. Wrestling (ground n' pound and takedowns)
2. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (subs)
3. Muay Thai (clinch fighting)
4. Kickboxing (standup non-clinch)



Vale Tudo, Sambo, Judo, all these are good as suplements but the above four are definitely the heart and soul of a good fighting style. For kicks you use kickboxing style as it can easily be sprawled (for takedown defense), and for knees you use Muay Thai clinch style knees.

Overal though I just want to dispell the myths that those are, in comparison to others, effective fighting styles.

 

[jonatas]

Well I can't argue with the 4 you've put up there. That's pretty much Ultimate Fighting in a nutshell. Wrestling and groundwork is definitely where it's at. Jiu Jitsu is a lot of grappling on the ground, but I guess I should have specified wrestling. And Muay Thai definitely for kneeing your opponent in the stomach or head, yeah I think the idea is to combine the best of those systems.

What about Gaidojutsu (sp.?) ? kind of a wrestling/jiu-jitsu variant with lots of submissions. You must have watched Ultimate Fighter... Diego Sanchez practices it I think, and he's expert in submissions. I don't know if you saw him fight Josh Koshjeck, who was a pretty awesome wrestler on the show, an All American I think. His takedowns were awesome. But he basically stood up the whole time, and didn't want to fight Diego on the ground because he was afraid of the submissions.

 

[woodelf]

Does that mean you'll be watching UFC 59 Saturday Fifty?

 

[sanabas]

I'm sick of people talking about the following fighting styles as if they are somehow great or dominant in comparison to other styles.

The following styles suck:

1. Karate
2. Tae-kwon-do
3. Kung-fu
4. Krav Maga

There, now you all know whenever someone talks about one of those styles, they are talking about styles that suck.

Haven't watched a lot of ultimate fighting, but I have done some Krav Maga. I think it would be fairly effective. I found it similar to jiujitsu, in that it's less concerned with focusing on one aspect (i.e. kicks for TKD, or grappling for Judo), and more concerned with using anything that works.

 

[Fifty]

@jonatas: Diego Sanchez is pretty much pure jiu-jitsu.

@woodelf: YES. In the two main fights I'm rooting for Ortiz and Arlovski.

@sanabas: Krav Maga getting rocked by wrestling. If you know MMA, you see how this guy has NO grasp of it.


Statistically best fighting styles:

STYLE RATING
Wrestling 206577
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 156659
Kickboxing 81939
Submission Fighting 77861
Muay Thai 36941
Sambo / Judo 27981
Greco-Roman Wrestling 25257
Submission Wrestling 23291
Rings Submission Fighting 21081
Ruas Vale Tudo 20523

 

[woodelf]

Ortiz has actually looked like a human being in TUF3. I'm impressed by him and am starting to think less of Shamrock.

I can't see Arlovski losing either...

 

[Fifty]

Ortiz has actually looked like a human being in TUF3. I'm impressed by him and am starting to think less of Shamrock.

Yes he's clearly both a better coach and a better person then Shamrock.

I can't see Arlovski losing either...

I agree. He'll beat Sylvia. The thing though is that UFC has HORRIBLE heavyweights in comparison to pride. Arlovski wouldn't even be a top 5 heavyweight in pride.

 

[woodelf]

I'm hoping UFC takes off here so we can create a market where the top guys come over here to fight. Right now Japan pays more.

 

[Fifty]

I'm hoping UFC takes off here so we can create a market where the top guys come over here to fight. Right now Japan pays more.

UFC is just as good as pride in every division other than Heavyweight.

 

[woodelf]

Sadly, just like in Boxing the mast majority of the public associates skill with being BIG. Total crap, but there it is.

 

[woodelf]

Fifty - what did you think of the Ortiz-Griffin result? Also Arlovsky losing at least ensured one more Heavyweight fight down the road....

 

[Fifty]

I think the Ortiz result was legitimate. Ortiz DOMINATED the first round. I'd give the second round to Griffen (but not by too much) and the third round to Ortiz.

Rnd 1: 10-8 Ortiz
Rnd 2: 10-9 Griffen
Rnd 3: 10-9 Ortiz

Ortiz wins, 29-27


As for Arlovski, I think he legitimized the comments people have been making that he was largely untested. The guy has NO chin. Silvia's punch was an "arm punch". That is, it had no legs or hips behind it (i.e. no power).

Silvia is a deserving champ, but the UFC needs to bring in a new Heavyweight. Monson is now the #1 Contender, and I think Silvia would drop him. UFC's heavyweight division just sucks. All of these pride fighters would, IMO, be the heavyweight champ if they were in UFC:

Fedor Emelianenko
Aleks Emelianenko
Mirko Filipovic
Mark Hunt
Antonio Noguiera (Big Nog)
Wanderlei Silva (he could bulk up to Heavyweight easily)
Sergei Kharitonov
Ricardo Arona (again, if he bulked up)


Even guys like Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, and Yoshido would have a chance to beat Silvia.


UFC heavyweights just suck.

Dana White is an idiot. Did you hear recently that they failed to sign Quinton Jackson back into the UFC? White is running out of good fighters fast.

Think about it, who are the ELITE fighters in UFC right now? There are very few: Matt Hughes, Georges St. Pierre, BJ Penn, Rich Franklin, Tito Ortiz, and Chuck Liddell. There are only so many permutations of these six guys that you can come up with before fights start getting boring. I mean look at these upcoming fights: Matt Hughes vs. Royce Gracie? gimme a break. Tito vs. Ken Shamrock?!?! Dana White needs to attract a good Pride fighter or two back over to UFC, because god knows that TUF isn't going to produce any elite fighters.

 

[jonatas]

@ Fifty

I agree with you about Diego and Jiu-Jitsu, but when I read up on him a bit it said he practiced Gaidojutsu which is supposed to be based on it but its own style?? I don't know, I'm just curious about it.

I didn't get to see UFC last weekend but I was interested to see how Forrest would do against Ortiz. From the sounds of it he was overwhelmed but not a complete pushover either. TUF was a success commercially in any case, which should help UFC make money and grow. A lot of the TUF fights I saw weren't competitive, but there were a couple like Diego/Koscheck and Bonnar/Forrest which were good. I'm curious to see how well those guys do in the future. Maybe they won't become elite but still be decent.

 

[Fifty]

I agree with you about Diego and Jiu-Jitsu, but when I read up on him a bit it said he practiced Gaidojutsu which is supposed to be based on it but its own style?? I don't know, I'm just curious about it.

Yeah a lot of fighters start with a more obscure style before realizing the power of the "big ones".

I didn't get to see UFC last weekend but I was interested to see how Forrest would do against Ortiz. From the sounds of it he was overwhelmed but not a complete pushover either.

Yea, and you also have to keep in mind that Ortiz had a pretty severe knee injury as well.

TUF was a success commercially in any case, which should help UFC make money and grow.

yeah the main thing with TUF is bringing UFC into the mainstream, and the commercial success of it. I think it's definitely good for the UFC, but the fighters that come out of TUF are hardly impressive. This is mainly because they arena't choosing the best semi-professionals to compete in TUF, they are choosing people based on personality, because reality TV is all about personality.

A lot of the TUF fights I saw weren't competitive, but there were a couple like Diego/Koscheck and Bonnar/Forrest which were good. I'm curious to see how well those guys do in the future. Maybe they won't become elite but still be decent.

I really think that of those, Forrest is the only one who is all that impressive.

 

[jonatas]

they arena't choosing the best semi-professionals to compete in TUF, they are choosing people based on personality, because reality TV is all about personality.

You may have a point there

Anyway I have to re-link that fight video you posted yesterday on another thread for anybody else who likes MMA. It's too freakin' awesome! They just wail at each others heads!! Frye is like 6"1 too, the other guy must be 6"5 or something foolish like that.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6315113964671200441&q=Don+Frye&pl=true

 

[Fifty]

Anyway I have to re-link that fight video you posted yesterday on another thread for anybody else who likes MMA. It's too freakin' awesome! They just wail at each others heads!! Frye is like 6"1 too, the other guy must be 6"5 or something foolish like that.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6315113964671200441&q=Don+Frye&pl=true

Important to note though, to non-mma fans, is that the "wailing on eachother" is not common in MMA. Also of note is that although to the untrained eye there is not much technical ability there, that couldn't be further from the truth. Muay thai clinch fighting by both guys, Takayama some excellent knees from the clinch, good Greco takedown by Takayama, nice jiu-jitsu mount and ground and pound to end the fight by Frye.

Here's an example of amazingly skilled MMA in action. For those of you who don't know, the white guy in this video, Fedor Emelianenko, is indisputably the best fighter in the world, and probably of all time. For those of you who know nothing about fighting, this guy would absolutely murder any professional boxer, and he would drop "legends" such as Muhommad Ali and Bruce Lee without difficulty.

Here we have Fedor vs. Ogawa, a talented Japanese fighter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPd1uXZk9-g&search=Fedor

Here we have Fedor vs. Kevin Randleman, an amazingly talented wrestler. The slam that Randleman gives to Fedor in this fight would most likely literally kill us normal humans, and yet Fedor comes back to win the fight via a Kimura lock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdf6GGKZbIg&search=Fedor

Finally, Fedor vs. Mirko "Cro-cop" Filipovic: To a non-mma fan this may be boring, as it's nearly a half hour in length, but to an MMA fan it could legitimately be called one of the best and most ancipated MMA matches of all time: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-234887588630418587&q=Fedor&pl=true

 

[jonatas]

Hehe, I just watched the Randleman one, and that is amazing. What a takedown! That could break someone's neck, but your man Fedore comes back and wins. What's funny is how his opponents lay on the ground after he's finished the fight relatively quickly. It's deceptive. He really hurts them, even more than you think. Awesome stuff. I'm gonna watch this last one now.

 

[Fifty]

Fedor is a perfect example of the fact that looking "cut" has no bearing on physical fitness. He is an athlete of the same caliber as any professional athlete in the world. In the last fight there he goes at it for a flippin' half hour! For an idea of how that feels, try fighting for three minutes nonstop and notice how unbelievably tired you are heh.

And yes Randleman's slam of Fedor was amazing. Really goes to show the power of wrestling. That was a freestyle wrestling throw called a suplex. Absolutely devestating.

For some comic relief, check out Tae Kwon Do vs. MMA Wrestling ability

If you need any further proof that grappling ability is absolutely essential to any fighter, and that pure standup is worthless, see this video. In it, Royce Gracie defeats a world champion of Kung-fu. Royce is only 16yrs old and weighs 15 pounds less than his physically stronger opponent: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8137340106961077524&q=royce+gracie&pl=true