MMA - Fighting Styles

lol @ the Tae-kwon-do guy. Holy crap I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. I'm still laughing as I type this out. Jesus. He just had no knowledge of grappling on the ground. Pathetic. Same thing as the Kung-Fu guy. You can see it right away. They just don't know the importance of grappling and maintaining their position on the ground. You can't really fight unless you're knowledgable on the ground.

Anyway those Fedor videos were great, especially the last one. I can see why you said he was so good. Great work at digging those up :goodjob:
 
Nice vids Fifty.

For all of it's warts TUF is at least showing MMA to a broader audience. For that it's a success.

Plus the "characters" created on TV might lead to more PPV buys leading to hopefully more money spent of talents. I doubt Fedor comes to UFC, but that would be cool. ;)
 
jonatas said:
lol @ the Tae-kwon-do guy. Holy crap I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. I'm still laughing as I type this out. Jesus. He just had no knowledge of grappling on the ground. Pathetic. Same thing as the Kung-Fu guy. You can see it right away. They just don't know the importance of grappling and maintaining their position on the ground. You can't really fight unless you're knowledgable on the ground.
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Exactly. Even the best fighters in MMA that are considered primarily standup (Mirko Filipovic, Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin, etc.) are all EXTREMELY skilled at both various freestyle wrestling and judo defenses to takedowns, and they all train on escaping from jiu-jitsu guards (full, half, butterfly, side mount, north-south, full mount, etc.)

jonatas said:
Anyway those Fedor videos were great, especially the last one. I can see why you said he was so good. Great work at digging those up :goodjob:
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Yes Fedor is pretty much indisputedly the best fighter in the world right now, and I can't think of anybody EVER who has been better than him.

woodelf said:
For all of it's warts TUF is at least showing MMA to a broader audience. For that it's a success.

Plus the "characters" created on TV might lead to more PPV buys leading to hopefully more money spent of talents.
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Yea that's definitely 100% true.


woodelf said:
I doubt Fedor comes to UFC, but that would be cool.
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haha yeah he would NEVER come to UFC. First of all he'd make way less money, and second he'd be quite bored with the fact that literally NOBODY in the UFC would likely last more than a round against him.

We need someone though! Rampage would have been a GREAT addition, but he was probably asking for quite a bit of money that dummmy Dana White wasn't willing to shell out.

I would LOVE to see Dan Henderson fight Rich Franklin, that would be an absolutely amazing fight.
 
woodelf said:
Plus the "characters" created on TV might lead to more PPV buys leading to hopefully more money spent of talents.
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Yeah, that's what I like about the show. You can actually get a feel for the characters, so it enhances the whole experience. It's like you get to know their personalities, so you can identify and root for them in the fight. It's a cool idea. I never watched Reality TV but I got hooked on TUF immediately. I don't get the Spike TV station though, so we only got season 1 being replayed recently. I can't watch season 2, which sucks. Fifty's links were a nice fix though ;)
 
:( That's a shame you don't get that channel man.

I can't think of any other reason to watch Spike except TUF, UFC Unleashed, and the UFC specials.
 
I'm just curious, where is Boxing in they style list? The elite boxers have always been the most gifted athletes and argueably the best fighters overall. Give Iron Mike (in his prime) some take down and low kick defense, and he would absolutely rape all of K-1, Pride, and UFC's top fighters. I am a big Fedor fan, but I am reluctant to say he could beat a prime Mike Tyson.

I don't really want to get into a big boxing v. kickboxing thing, I def recognize the merits of kickboxing, but it is already on the list. Any of you guys boxing fans, or have thoughts about its place in MMA?
 
capslock said:
I'm just curious, where is Boxing in they style list? The elite boxers have always been the most gifted athletes and argueably the best fighters overall. Give Iron Mike (in his prime) some take down and low kick defense, and he would absolutely rape all of K-1, Pride, and UFC's top fighters. I am a big Fedor fan, but I am reluctant to say he could beat a prime Mike Tyson.

I don't really want to get into a big boxing v. kickboxing thing, I def recognize the merits of kickboxing, but it is already on the list. Any of you guys boxing fans, or have thoughts about its place in MMA?
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Boxing is 100% different from MMA. The reason you don't see boxers in MMA is because the stance and style of boxing makes them EXTREMELY susceptible to takedowns.

Boxing is useful for an MMA practitioner to train for hand speed purposes, but boxing as a fighting style in itself is really really horrible.

Saying "give mike tyson some takedown and kick defense and he would rape everyone" is like saying "give Fedor mike tyson's boxing skills and he's beat mike tyson in boxing" that is to say, your statement has no merit whatsoever and reflects a poor understanding of MMA.
 
Wrong. Boxing is very useful. Its the king stand up sport, thats why they make the big $$ and MMA fighters make jack **** in comparison. And the elite boxers are the most athleticly gifted, watch some of Tysons fights, or see guys like Roy Jones JR, Mayweather. Their techniqe and power is too good. Which is too say, teaching them a little kick and takedown defense is not at all like giving Fedor their boxing skills, that is iimpossible. They are superior athletes and the reason you don't see boxers in MMA is because they are making alot more $$$ boxing (partly because its the more popular sport, though). As an art, its the best, and although you won't fight a MMA match like a boxing match, the boxing skillset is very good fights in general.

How did Andre get knocked out and lose his title? Most MMA fighters just throw bombs, and dont really box. They can and will get caught by good boxers, when going for takedowns, too.
 
BTW is this MMA thing totally for real or there are a bit of theater? I find hard to believe that those guys dont kill each other frenquently when they can for instance kick the other guy in the face while he is knocked on the floor.
 
Fifty said:
I'm sick of people talking about the following fighting styles as if they are somehow great or dominant in comparison to other styles.

The following styles suck:

1. Karate
2. Tae-kwon-do
3. Kung-fu
4. Krav Maga

There, now you all know whenever someone talks about one of those styles, they are talking about styles that suck.
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That would be a ******** statement. Karate is not a style of martial art, it is a martial art... which has various styles within, which are very different from each other. You can say the same about Kung-Fu.


I'd like to see you tell someone who does kyokushin karate that he sucks at fighting. Take for example Sem Schilt who is the current K1 world champion, he does Kyokushin karate. He'll KO any of those UFC kickboxers with one arm tied to his back. I wouldnt really be able to tell you about useful styles for MMA which from the range of wushu / kung fu styles, but I am sure there are Kung Fu styles which could be highly effective when combined with a close range, grappling martial art like jiu jitsu.


TKD is indeed based on the assumption that there are many rules, so I agree it wouldnt be very effective in a UFC ring. Krav Maga is not a martial art, it's a collection of effective techniques from different martial arts for use in combat, not in a ring. If you arent good at any real martial art, you won't be good at Krav Maga.
 
capslock said:
Wrong. Boxing is very useful. Its the king stand up sport, thats why they make the big $$ and MMA fighters make jack **** in comparison. And the elite boxers are the most athleticly gifted, watch some of Tysons fights, or see guys like Roy Jones JR, Mayweather. Their techniqe and power is too good. Which is too say, teaching them a little kick and takedown defense is not at all like giving Fedor their boxing skills, that is iimpossible. They are superior athletes and the reason you don't see boxers in MMA is because they are making alot more $$$ boxing (partly because its the more popular sport, though). As an art, its the best, and although you won't fight a MMA match like a boxing match, the boxing skillset is very good fights in general.
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Boxers making more money as an assessment of their fighting ability is silly. So I guess the top baseball players in the world are better fighters than boxers? :confused:

Believe me, I'm as big of a boxing fan as anybody, and I absolutely LOVE Mike Tyson. However, I don't see anything in a boxing stance and style that would lend itself to MMA wins. They are simply different sports. That isn't to say that boxers aren't amazing athletes or inferior to MMA fighters or anything like that. They are just completely different sports. An MMA fighter would get absolutely rocked in a boxing ring, and a boxer would get absolutely rocked in an MMA ring. The only reason that MMA fighters train boxing is for handspeed, not for its usefullness as a fighting style in itself.

capslock said:
How did Andre get knocked out and lose his title? Most MMA fighters just throw bombs, and dont really box. They can and will get caught by good boxers, when going for takedowns, too.
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Andre got knocked out becuase he has no chin. He isn't even a top ten MMA fighter in his weightclass. I'm not sure if you realize the intricacies of MMA fighting.

logical psycho said:
I'd like to see you tell someone who does kyokushin karate that he sucks at fighting.
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Here we have a physically larger practitioner of kyokushin karate getting beaten in less than 20 seconds: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8536219474299326646&q=karate&pl=true

Here we have Shotokan karate being absolutely destroyed by a BJJ practioner: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-60512801687928577&q=karate&pl=true


logical psycho said:
Take for example Sem Schilt who is the current K1 world champion, he does Kyokushin karate. He'll KO any of those UFC kickboxers with one arm tied to his back.
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Really? because last time I checked, Schilt has been TKOed or KOed by several MMA fighters, many of which were at a SEVERE weight and height disadvantage (Sergei Kharitonov, Masaaki Satake, Gilbert Yvel) and has been submitted by several other MMA fighters (Josh Barnett, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Fedor Emelianenko, Satoshi Hasegawa, Masakatsu Funaki, Ryushi Yanagisawa). If you knew anything about MMA, you'd know that Schilt is by no stretch of the imagination a top MMA fighter.

edit: look what I found! http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/UFC/video/95620 there we have Schilt being beaten by Fedor Emelianenko.

karate vs. mma again, guess who wins? http://youtube.com/watch?v=OShchYDJzNI&search=karate mma

tae kwon do vs. muay thai. Even with pathetic TKD rules the superior style still asserts itself: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5585460401345378983&q=muay+thai&pl=true
 
Boxers making more money as an assessment of their fighting ability is silly. So I guess the top baseball players in the world are better fighters than boxers?

Believe me, I'm as big of a boxing fan as anybody, and I absolutely LOVE Mike Tyson. However, I don't see anything in a boxing stance and style that would lend itself to MMA wins. They are simply different sports. That isn't to say that boxers aren't amazing athletes or inferior to MMA fighters or anything like that. They are just completely different sports. An MMA fighter would get absolutely rocked in a boxing ring, and a boxer would get absolutely rocked in an MMA ring. The only reason that MMA fighters train boxing is for handspeed, not for its usefullness as a fighting style in itself.
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I have seen several fights beetwen boxers and thai-boxers or similar. The thing works invariably in the same way: the Thai kicks the boxer in the legs a couple of times and the boxer legs bends down like a rush, so the boxer ends in the floor in no time, the boxer normally has not even a chance to reach the Thai boxer and the times it does it is not so devastating since the thai boxer knows how to box too. With MMA rules you can imagine how it would end; the boxer knocked down in the floor and the MMA fighter kicking his face easily.
 
Thorgalaeg said:
I have seen several fights beetwen boxers and thai-boxers or similar. The thing works invariably in the same way: the Thai kicks the boxer in the legs a couple of times and the boxer legs bends down like a rush, so the boxer ends in the floor in no time, the boxer normally has not even a chance to reach the Thai boxer and the times it does it is not so devastating since the thai boxer knows how to box too. With MMA rules you can imagine how it would end; the boxer knocked down in the floor and the MMA fighter kicking his face easily.
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Your assessment is spot on! :goodjob:

The boxing stance does not defend against leg kicks, clinch, or takedowns. Watch a heavyweight boxing fight. See how often they hug eachother when they get all tired? That's when the thai boxer is knocking him out with knees from the clinch.

The kings of MMA clinchfighting:

the master, Wanderlei Silva

his up and coming protege (they are of the same organization, Chute Boxe): Mauricio "shogun" Rua

Unfortunately, Rua recently injured his arm quite severely in a fight against Mark Coleman (the loser of the fight Jonatas just provided), so he'll be out of action for at least another six months. :sad:


Since we're cataloging all the links I've posted, here's some that I've posted recently in the fighting thread to counter Lotus49's hilariously bogus arguments about boxing: Mirko Filipovic, Peter Aerts, Jerome LeBanner, Ray Sefo, Chuck Liddell

Those are some of the most devestating strikers in MMA (Sefo, LeBanner, and Aerts are actually mainly K1 kickboxers), very entertaining highlights.


Here are some hilarious David vs. Goliath matches. The Japanese love putting giant unskilled freaks against skilled fighters :lol:

7ft 2in Giant Silva vs. Japanese fighter Minowa. Very creative takedown by Minowa :lol:

390 pound monster Zuluzhino versus Fedor. Fedor wins in less than 30 seconds :lol:

Big bad 360 pounds of pure muscle, Bobb Sapp versus Mirko Filipovic. Another short one. The big guy can't take a punch :lol:

I highly recommend those last three, hilarious all of them!
 
Thanks for continually posting these links guys. I'm late getting into MMA and have yet to see these bouts.
 
Fifty - Isn't MMA the video you showed me a couple weeks ago (in chatroom)? That was pretty cool. I've never seen UFC though.

EDIT - I just watched the one with the Giant Silva and Minowa... that sommersault thing he pulled was pretty awesome!
 
does capoiera suck?
 
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