[MOD] CivMore

[N3pomuk]

Do you realz think that 75% of land is not a bit too steep a requirement? May I suggest that you keep the land requirement low or remove it altogether and up the percentage of cities that need to have the religion? The idea is great but considering that if you already own that much land you might aswell go for domination, and IF you own 75% of the land you can altoo easily convert your own pop. So why not make/keep it as a victory condition for smaler more efficient empires. Also you could link a wonder that can only be built if the religion has reached 51% to the victory... what do you think?

 

[zinferno]

First of all, thanks for the feedback! This is exacty the kind of suggestions/critisisms/etc. that I am looking for. You obviously put a fair amount of time and thought into your post, and it is much appreciated!

Well thanks! I just thought you had some great ideas going and feedback, right or wrong is what you were looking for... glad i could help

I added a fifth ability for each of the Great People; the Art Museum was a logical choice, as it fits under the 'Artist' heading and is typically something that is started by someone that would be passionate about art, and not simply exist in every/any city.

Ah! Well that makes sense then.. I was thrown off about that a bit in your meaning... I see the logic in that.

As it stands right now, the Boot Camp requires 2 barracks to build...

I think the alterations on this make better sense, and certainly with the higher number of barracks. Too bad it couldn't be set to a ratio.. if you have 'x' number of barracks you were allowed 'y' number of boot camps to spread throughout your cities. That would maintain it from overbalancing.

Honestly, I'm not to particularly happy with the name of this building (Labor Union); I knew what I wanted the Great Engineer's fifth ability to be, but I didn't know what to call it that would fit;

What about something that is more architectural in concept rather than labor related? Something like Masonic Temple!! That would fit perfect since they have been around for quite some time, and they were engineering related, and it would be something found in every city with a membership.

However, you mention that the Labor Union should be available before Corporation, yet (in the Civ IV tech tree, anyway), industrialism comes significantly later... which do you think I should go with?

Well there is an issue i have with the normal tech tree anyhow since it doesn't fly quite right with me anyhow, i can see it from one perspective but I suppose i think of the corporation tech as a much more modern idea of the corporation not in how they originated.



I see your point on a lot of your other additions, especially those pulled from earlier Civ games. I went from CivNet to this.. oddly enough but true so my memory isn't what it used to be.

When I have the time i will think more on that and see what i can think of...

oh, but the Masonic Temple is a winner.. yes yes yes. If you don't agree i think i will just have to drink myself into a stupor out of sadness. *laughs*

 

[fitchn]

It is playable even with this error message ?

It's when i launch the mod

Yeah, the game plays fine even with the error message. You can just ignore it. Let me know if you have any other problems. Enjoy!

 

[fitchn]

Do you realz think that 75% of land is not a bit too steep a requirement? May I suggest that you keep the land requirement low or remove it altogether and up the percentage of cities that need to have the religion? The idea is great but considering that if you already own that much land you might aswell go for domination, and IF you own 75% of the land you can altoo easily convert your own pop. So why not make/keep it as a victory condition for smaler more efficient empires. Also you could link a wonder that can only be built if the religion has reached 51% to the victory... what do you think?

Sorry, perhaps I should have clarified. The 75% land requirement means that 75% of the land in the game must belong to any of the civilizations. Or, in other words, there can only be 25% or less unclaimed land on the map, total. This is to prevent the religious victory too early in the game when there are only a few cities on the map; otherwise, if you where to found a religion with only two cities on the map, with yours being only a single pop larger than your opponents, you would trigger the victory condition... this would be more dumb luck than anything!

As far as linking the wonder is concerned, this currently can not be done without messing with python. While I am comforatable with python, I don't want to use it at this point to alter the gameplay, as the AI will not be able to anticipate it (e.g., in this case, the AI would not know that if they strive to spread their religion, they can build such-and-such wonder). However, I do have plans to add a unique religious-specific wonder for each of the religions in the game, in an attempt to make each of the religions unique, while still keeping them on equal footing. More details on this later...

 

[fitchn]

...
Ah! Well that makes sense then.. I was thrown off about that a bit in your meaning... I see the logic in that.

I added the 'requires Great Artist' to the documentation mainly because the civilopedia does not reflect this requirement; my concern was that players wouldn't be able to figure out (without digging deeper) why they couldn't build the buildings, despite having all of the requirements detailed in the 'pedia. Perhaps I can put my python skills to work there to change that...

I think the alterations on this make better sense, and certainly with the higher number of barracks. Too bad it couldn't be set to a ratio.. if you have 'x' number of barracks you were allowed 'y' number of boot camps to spread throughout your cities. That would maintain it from overbalancing.

Actually, that's exactly how it works! You can build 1 boot camp for every 4 barracks that you have built; in order to build a second boot camp, you need to have 8 barracks, and so on.

What about something that is more architectural in concept rather than labor related? Something like Masonic Temple!! That would fit perfect since they have been around for quite some time, and they were engineering related, and it would be something found in every city with a membership.

My preference would be something that is tied closer to a specific building rather than a concept (not to mention that Labor Unions are sometimes thought to actually reduce production rather than increase it). I'm still looking into the background on it (gotta love wikipedia!), but I think the Masonic Temple would fit the bill, though I'll probably call it a 'Masonic Hall' to avoid any confusion with the religious temples in the game. Thanks!

Well there is an issue i have with the normal tech tree anyhow since it doesn't fly quite right with me anyhow, i can see it from one perspective but I suppose i think of the corporation tech as a much more modern idea of the corporation not in how they originated.

I'm trying to stay away from altering the tech tree, for two reasons: I don't want players to have to 're-learn' the game; and I don't want to throw off the already-delicate balance in place there, even if not entirely accurate.

I see your point on a lot of your other additions, especially those pulled from earlier Civ games. I went from CivNet to this.. oddly enough but true so my memory isn't what it used to be.

When I have the time i will think more on that and see what i can think of...

oh, but the Masonic Temple is a winner.. yes yes yes. If you don't agree i think i will just have to drink myself into a stupor out of sadness. *laughs*

I'd like to mull it over a little bit yet, but I think you definitely may be on to something with the Masonic Temple! I appreciate all of your feedback, and look forward to receiving more! Thanks again!

 

[Civkid1991]

People would download this mod more often if you put in screen shots. Some people (like me) like to see what they are going to get in the mod (by that i mean graphics and tech trees and stuff like that)

please consider

 

[fitchn]

People would download this mod more often if you put in screen shots. Some people (like me) like to see what they are going to get in the mod (by that i mean graphics and tech trees and stuff like that)

please consider

I do have 5 screenshots (or rather, 4 and a chart) posted at the bottom of the first post. At this point though, none of the new buildings or wonders have graphics that show up in the city so I can't take screenshots of those, many of the changes are conceptual only, and few of the remaining changes can be viewed in a couple of screenshots (I don't want to go overboard and post a shot of every new thing). Is there anything in particular that you wanted to see?

 

[Tycoon101]

I've played a few games with this excellent mod, definitely in my top three favorite mods , and I've compiled a list of stuff that you definitely know, but I just wish to say anyway
1. I looked in the tech advisor, and Future tech B was only 44 in my quick game.
2. The religeous win seems a bit easy, especially if you are playing on a small map.
3. Wonder movies!!! They would be awesome with this mod
4. Ask Kael if you could borrow some of the civics pictures in Fall From Heaven, or make someone else do some..

This is an awesome mod and please don't bust on me, I'm only a little Tycoon... Looking forward to the next version!

 

[fitchn]

I've played a few games with this excellent mod, definitely in my top three favorite mods , and I've compiled a list of stuff that you definitely know, but I just wish to say anyway

Thanks for the compliments! I'm glad you like it! On to the comments...

1. I looked in the tech advisor, and Future tech B was only 44 in my quick game.

Yeah, I know. This was for testing purposes, and I forgot to change it back. I've already fixed this for the next release.

2. The religeous win seems a bit easy, especially if you are playing on a small map.

This one has been fixed for the next release as well (it now requires 75% of the map to be occupied before the condition is valid).

3. Wonder movies!!! They would be awesome with this mod

This would definitely be cool, but a lot of work for something that has no affect on the gameplay; as such, at this point this is a fairly low priority. As the mod gets closer to completion, I will definitely look into this though (unless, of course, anyone else wants to start making some for the mod... ).

4. Ask Kael if you could borrow some of the civics pictures in Fall From Heaven, or make someone else do some..

The icons (and new building skins/models) will be forthcoming as the mod progresses. I'd like to nail down the specifics of what will be in the mod before I start making icons for them though (I'd hate to spend a couple of hours making icons & skins for buildings that don't make the final cut!). In addition to making some of them myself, this is one of those areas that I'm definitely going to be looking for help from the community (hint-hint)...

This is an awesome mod and please don't bust on me, I'm only a little Tycoon... Looking forward to the next version!

Thanks again for the praise and the feedback! The next version should be just around the corner...

 

[Dane]

Sun Tzu Wonder do not give all units produced in the city the free drill promotion. It seems that only units that gan actuallly choose drill as promotion gets it. Is that the idea of the wonder?

 

[fitchn]

Sun Tzu Wonder do not give all units produced in the city the free drill promotion. It seems that only units that gan actuallly choose drill as promotion gets it. Is that the idea of the wonder?

The main game mechanics only provide a free promotion to eligible units, so yes, this is the idea. I was afraid that this bonus was not quite powerful enough to be wonder-quality, but didn't want to start out at a level 2+ drill promotion (skipping the first one altogether). However, you have inspired some thought... I think I will create a new, unique promotion (perhaps more powerful than the Drill I promotion) only available via this wonder, that any unit built in the city will get, regardless of type. I'll see how it turns out... Thanks!

 

[Officer Reene]

I think I missed something... what is it that you are keeping your eye on...?

As far as the error is concerned, I am aware of it... it doesn't affect the gameplay at all though; everything works fine. It is something that I put in in anticipation of the SDK, but I'm going to pull it back out until the SDK is released, whenever that might be...

I think the error has to define UNITAI_GENERAL tags (or something like that)

and the agriculture person tag too
I checked with Exaviers Composite Mod that uses the Great General Mod

and he uses UNITAI_SCIENTIST

(something like that)

So I changed all the names at the end of that grouping (after the uniquenames/ line)

to scientist and I do not have that error on start up


I think it is a scripting/coding error of the defining those tags ..but I dont know for sure... (sorry not very technical/computer literate)

I will try to play with these changes and report back with any errors...


on a related note:

the only thing I fear about using mods in Multiplayer is that I have had:

Out of Sync (OOS) errors when in MP...

(this of course doesnt happen in single player mod)

people vary on why OOS errors occur but the general concensus (from scanning the forums)

is that any mod with poor/bad scripting causes this problem...

I will also keep you updated on this...

hopefully this will help you solve the start up errors...

Wish me luck... gonna try it out in MP (over LAN)

 

[Brancaleone]

This mod made me play this game again, after a (very fun) period of 6 months were i was addicted to Battlefield 2.

I want MORE! I know thats not gonna happen, but i would give you my bank account and my first born if you made this mod go into the future... Not the stupid future like Call to Power, with robots, droids, etc, but a realistic future (with unmanned jet fighters, amphibious units, etc).

Nice mod.

 

[Tycoon101]

Thank you Fitchn for your reply . I just played another game today and I've decided to raise this to my favorite mod!

I'd love to aid you, yes really. But I'm inept at coding , Could you possibly tell me how to code or give me a link to a good intro to coding for Civ 4 . Only then could I help you

Good luck on the next version Fitchn!

 

[Brancaleone]

A question about next version

When the xpac is released, how long until you convert your mod to the xpac? With the unique buildings, new great person, possible new governments, etc.. or do you plan on enjoying the xpac for a few weeks before modding it?

 

[Officer Reene]

fitchn,

What building help promote Great Generals being produced?

Is it possible to make Great Generals Units for Armies (like Civ III) or gives morale/offense/defense bonuses to a stack of military units (like in sid's gettysburg)

just a thought

Note: the mod is great... it works in MP (LAN) (no OOS error)

good job!

 

[fitchn]

I think the error has to define UNITAI_GENERAL tags (or something like that)

and the agriculture person tag too
I checked with Exaviers Composite Mod that uses the Great General Mod

and he uses UNITAI_SCIENTIST

(something like that)

So I changed all the names at the end of that grouping (after the uniquenames/ line)

to scientist and I do not have that error on start up


I think it is a scripting/coding error of the defining those tags ..but I dont know for sure... (sorry not very technical/computer literate)

I will try to play with these changes and report back with any errors...

First of all, thanks for the feedback, and I hope you're enjoying the mod!

I am aware of what is causing the error. I added the UNITAI_GENERAL and UNITAI_AGRICULTURALIST attributes to the new great people (of the same name) as a placeholder to program how the AI should handle them. The particular error that is coming up when the game is first loaded is because these UNITAI's have not been defined in the CIV4BasicInfos.xml file. However, these attributes are hardcoded into the game; If I attempt to add them to this file, the game gets a fatal error and crashes. I will not be able to add these in properly until the SDK is released; I will be pulling these out of the files until then for the next release. As I've mentioned before, the game will essentially ignore these tags since they are not defined; as such, the error has no affect on the gameplay or stability of the mod in any way!

on a related note:

the only thing I fear about using mods in Multiplayer is that I have had:

Out of Sync (OOS) errors when in MP...

(this of course doesnt happen in single player mod)

people vary on why OOS errors occur but the general concensus (from scanning the forums)

is that any mod with poor/bad scripting causes this problem...

I will also keep you updated on this...

hopefully this will help you solve the start up errors...

Wish me luck... gonna try it out in MP (over LAN)

I have not tried the mod in multiplayer yet, but it should not cause any problems. The vast majority of my changes are all XML and graphic changes, only, and 98% of the python scripting in the mod alters the interface only; none of it affects gameplay. Just the same, I am eager to hear the result...! Wishing you luck... *crosses fingers*

 

[fitchn]

This mod made me play this game again, after a (very fun) period of 6 months were i was addicted to Battlefield 2.

I want MORE! I know thats not gonna happen, but i would give you my bank account and my first born if you made this mod go into the future... Not the stupid future like Call to Power, with robots, droids, etc, but a realistic future (with unmanned jet fighters, amphibious units, etc).

Nice mod.

First off, thanks for the high praise! I'm glad that you seem to be enjoying the mod!

As for your request, don't worry: I have lots more planned for this mod... no first born necessary! I honestly hadn't considered moving the mod into the future in the way that you are referring to. I do have ideas (some already implemented in the upcoming release) as to add more generic Future Technologies that each provide some form of boost or reward. For instance, the one that I just recently added is a series of Military Future Techs that each unlock a new (and increasingly powerful) 'Future Combat' promotion!

You're idea intrigues me, though... I could fairly easily add some near-future techs to the game. I don't want to go too far, nor do I want to stray from the scope of Civ, but if the main game can have near-future items in it (such as the Space Elevator, and the Cure For Cancer and Longevity in previous versions of civ), than why can't my mod? Hmmm... I'll have to chew this one over for a little bit... Thanks for the idea, though!

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this (good or bad)...?

 

[fitchn]

Thank you Fitchn for your reply . I just played another game today and I've decided to raise this to my favorite mod!

I'm honored that you would raise my humble mod to such a position ! (now to get everyone else to do the same... ) As for the reply, you're more than welcome! After all, you took the time to comment on my mod (and favorably so, none-the-less), why shouldn't I take the time to reply...?

I'd love to aid you, yes really. But I'm inept at coding , Could you possibly tell me how to code or give me a link to a good intro to coding for Civ 4 . Only then could I help you

Good luck on the next version Fitchn!

Honestly, at this point, I'ts not really help with coding that I need (although, technically XML is a markup language, not coding language, but I know what you mean), not to mention that it can be very difficult to have several people modifying the same sets of files simultaneously. Where I do need help (especially in the not-so-distant future) is with some of the more simple-but-overwhelming-in-number aspects of the mod. For instance, new icons, new building models/skins, and civilopedia entries, to name a few. Of course, I'm also always looking for new ideas, suggestions, and (most importantly) feedback, whether good or bad!

As far as a pointing you in the right direction to learn how to mod Civ IV, I would suggest one of several approaches (or all):

• Copy 'XML' folder in the 'assets' directory into the 'custom assets' or a new folder in one of the 'MODS' directories, and start changing values! Messing around and experimenting is one of the best ways to figure it out!
• Check out the Tutorials section of this forum... there are some very well-written step by step walkthroughs for just about anything, from the simple to the overly-complicated, written by other forum members, beta testers, and even Firaxians (i.e., the people that wrote the game)!
• If you're series about learning how to code/program, I would recomend virtually any book from Peach Pit Press's 'Visual QuickStart' series (available from amazon.com and most any bookstore). While by no means exhaustive, the books work well as both a tutorial/how to and as a reference. The price is also pretty nice: about $20 (US) each (and, in my opinion, much better than most of the $50+ books or $200+ textbooks that are out there)! Of course, they don't have a book on modding Civ IV, but they do have books on XML, Python, graphics, and moddeling!

Good luck on your quest, should you choose to embark on it! I will warn you though, it can take a lot of trial-and-error and patience, especially when first starting out! I program for a living and have 15+ years of programming experience under my belt and it can still be frustrating from time-to-time (especially when working with code written by someone else). But when you get it working, there's nothing quite like seeing your creation come to life!

Thanks again for the compliments!

 

[fitchn]

A question about next version

When the xpac is released, how long until you convert your mod to the xpac? With the unique buildings, new great person, possible new governments, etc.. or do you plan on enjoying the xpac for a few weeks before modding it?

Honestly, I'm not sure... I've tried to keep as detailed notes on my mod as possible, so that I might be able to re-create it for the XP rather quickly. However, there are the potential issues of balance changes that the XP will introduce (eg, my Great General may be redundant to the new Warlord unit that will be in the game), and XML or other file structure changes. Of course, I'm probably going to want to spend some time messing with the XP, by itself! In the end, though, I find modding the game to be as much fun as playing the game (if not more so)!

So, to give you a more difinitive answer: it all depends!