[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

[J-S]

Squad Leaders! ...another idea ...I'll post it as a spoiler so it doesn't hog too much space

Spoiler :

Squad leaders
Add the following exclusive upgrades for ground units, only available in cities with certain buildings and at a gold cost:

Champion

• +10% strength bonus.
• +10% strength bonus against melee units.
• +1 extra strike chance against melee units without a champion (because of the initial fear he causes when charging the enemy).
• There is a moderate chance that the squad leader is killed after suffering damage in a battle (because he just loves to charge right into the fray ).
• Exclusive for melee units.
• Requires Training Yard.
• Requires level 3.

Healer

• +10% healing in every territory.
• Allows the unit to heal while moving.
• -15% strength penalty.
• There is a low chance that the squad leader is killed after suffering damage in a battle.
• Requires Infirmary.
• Requires level 3.

Marksman

• +10% chance to kill another squad’s leader before engaging in combat (which means that squad’s leader bonuses do not apply).
• +1 extra strike chance.
• There is a low chance that the squad leader is killed after suffering damage in a battle.
• Exclusive for archer units.
• Requires Bowyer.
• Requires level 3.

Assassin

• +20% chance to kill another squad’s leader before engaging in combat (which means that squad’s leader bonuses do not apply).
• -20% strength penalty.
• There is a very low chance that the squad leader is killed after suffering damage in a battle (after poisoning the other squad's leader he usually hides until the end of the battle, which also explains the heavy strength penalty).
• Requires (building).
• Requires level 3.

Ladder carrier

• +40% strength bonus against fortified cities (cities with walls).
• -10% strength bonus.
• Unit cannot have more than 1 movement point.
• There is a moderate chance that the squad leader is killed after suffering damage in a battle.
• Requires Siege Workshop.
• Requires level 3.

Priest (Divine) / Sorcerer / Conjurer

• Grants only one level 1 or 2 spell of any available magic type for that school.
• -15% strength penalty.
• Unit can cast and attack on the same turn.
• There is a low chance that the squad leader is killed after suffering damage in a battle.
• Requires Siege Workshop.
• Requires Mage Guild.
• Requires level 4.

I saw something like this on some RTS games and thought this could work nicely in Civ. And afterall, it is very similar to the 3 'configuration' upgrades that sea units have in FfH2 (str, mov, or cargo).
Each unit can only have one of these 'upgrades' (does not consume a promotion) and the purchase of an upgrade can be undone in any friendly city (the gold cost of the upgrade is lost).
I put as many examples as I could think of, possibly too many, and the numbers would probably have to be tweaked to remain balanced... but 'tis my way of contributing to FfH

 

[Kael]

I like your ideas J-S. I wish there were more unique mehcanics rather than just combat/healing modifiers. I think we have done that to death. But the overall concept of being able to graft special units (like the great commander) to a unit is an interesting idea.

And I also have some FfH news to share. We have new art team members on the FfH team. AlazkanAssassin and Ploeperpengel have both joined the FfH team. Both were already huge contributors. Ploeperpengel has been on the top of the non-team member contributor list since the list was made and AlazkanAssassin created the Lanun units for Light and has been making a ton of animal units for "Fire" (the turtle, gorilla, hornguard and goats pulling the dwarven chariot are all from AlazkanAssassin).

So welcome to both of them!

Secondly we have set a release date for the first version of "Fire", February 16th. It wont be full featured by that point but it should be playable, fun and ready to start getting playtest feedback from all of you.

I guess we better get busy.

 

[Gamestation]

And I also have some FfH news to share. We have new art team members on the FfH team. AlazkanAssassin and Ploeperpengel have both joined the FfH team. Both were already huge contributors. Ploeperpengel has been on the top of the non-team member contributor list since the list was made and AlazkanAssassin created the Lanun units for Light and has been making a ton of animal units for "Fire" (the turtle, gorilla, hornguard and goats pulling the dwarven chariot are all from AlazkanAssassin).

So I wonder how you are going to fit in a hero unit for each of them. Probably a heroic assassin for AA but what the heck is a "Ploeperpengel".

All right but seriously cool, more people = more talent = more quality = more fun!

 

[Rando]

Great news about the release date!

Fire looks amazing. I wanted to comment in particular about the Khazad units in the spoiler for fire.

I think one of the hard things about any sort of fantasy-theme is trying to give a unique feel or flavor or look to the game/book/movie. Many fantasy games try hard I think to create a truly unique fantasy world. I think many fall short, and seem to be a rehash of old ideas.

FFH in general has a very unique and distinctive style. It blows me away that Kael and team can take the elf, dwarf, dark elf, orc, fantasy themes and breathe new life into it.

I was particularly impressed by the new units for Khazad - they are very unique, very imaginative, and have a distinct style (the dwarven chariot is brilliant).

Tremendous job.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

(the dwarven chariot is brilliant).

Tremendous job.

Ditto...
Congrats to both AA and Pleo

 

[triangle]

Sorry, this is dumb, but...

I had to reinstall civ 4 and now ffh crawls along like a snail for the initial load. How do you fix this??

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Did you install a recent version?

 

[TheJopa]

Then 1 month it is... Cant wait...

 

[triangle]

I installed the most recent version, 2.016 J...

I figured out the problem though... apparently a program that runs on my comp. during startup MASSIVELY slows down civ 4.

And thus slows down ffh as well.

 

[J-S]

Glad to see more people are helping out!!! And I have already cancelled all social plans for feb 16th

As for the ideas, you're right Kael, in the end it's just more of the same combat/healing bonuses... does the game allow for more regarding millitary units? ...I'll see if I can think of other things...
I also thought it would be really really cool to see for example one of the men in the unit change into a healer when that squad leader is purchased (but that might be a pain to code).

 

[Kael]

Glad to see more people are helping out!!! And I have already cancelled all social plans for feb 16th

As for the ideas, you're right Kael, in the end it's just more of the same combat/healing bonuses... does the game allow for more regarding millitary units? ...I'll see if I can think of other things...

Dont design with the limitations of the game in mind. Design the system you would love to play, then see if that can be done in the game.

I also thought it would be really really cool to see for example one of the men in the unit change into a healer when that squad leader is purchased (but that might be a pain to code).

Its actually impossible to do unit art changes. I have wanted it forever but the only way is to make 2 versions of the unit and switch between them (one version of a maceman nomal, and one version with a healer in the group). Of course that solution doesnt scale at all when you start to talk about all the different combinations.

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

Actually, I think something similar can be done with the great warlord mechanics in Warlords. (Doesn't help with FfH though) Python can add or remove a great general of your choice that can be any unit you want (With proper animations that is)
So for example, when a unit is assigned a medic leader you add a medic unit figure. You can only have one at a time, so you'd be limited to one a single squad leader at a time (makes sense) when you want to change it just give it a new promotion for the game effects and change the graphic with python.

 

[J-S]

Dont design with the limitations of the game in mind. Design the system you would love to play, then see if that can be done in the game.
Its actually impossible to do unit art changes. I have wanted it forever but the only way is to make 2 versions of the unit and switch between them (one version of a maceman nomal, and one version with a healer in the group). Of course that solution doesnt scale at all when you start to talk about all the different combinations.

...then I'll just brainstorm away ... here are some more things I thought would be cool. I'll post them all together since they are very related. I tried to detail their possible implementation as far as I could...

Spoiler :

Seize resource - Unit Action
If an enemy unit steps on a tile with a resource, that resource should be lost for the civ owner of the tile as long as enemy units remain on it, even if the improvement has not been pillaged.
This action would be to 'capture' those resources that aren't going anywhere...

• The unit will seize the resource provided by that tile and have it go to his owning civ instead of to the civ owner of the tile.
• It is considered a hostile action, so it cannot be done without declaring war to the civ owner of the tile (diplomacy already allows for the ‘seizing’ of resources without war).
• Requires that the tile has all necessary improvements to collect that resource (you cannot do this on iron that has no mine).
• The unit will automatically continue seizing the resource every turn until told otherwise (like a sentry action).
• The unit has a -80% strength if attacked while seizing a resource (since all of it’s efforts are focused on harvesting the resource).
• The tile must be connected to a friendly city or to a working Millitary Camp. Workers can build roads in enemy territory.
• The tile must be within 3 tiles from the border of the owning civ or within 2 tiles from a working Millitary Camp (new improvement).
• If peace is made with the civ owner of that tile... (I don't know)
• Civs which import seized resources get a penalty with the civ whos resources are being seized.

Millitary Camp - Terrain Improvement

• Terrain improvement that can be built anywhere (even in enemy territory).
• In order to ‘function’ it requires:
  
  · A friendly unit on it, except ships and workers (otherwise it is ‘abandoned’ or conquered by another civ).
  · Connection to a friendly city or to a working Millitary Camp, by road or by sea if built on a coastal tile (otherwise it is ‘not connected’):
  

  - If it is not built on a coastal tile it must be within 3 tiles from the border of the civ or within 2 tiles from another working Millitary Camp (otherwise it is ‘not connected’).
  - If it is built on a coastal tile it just needs a friendly city or working Millitary Camp that it can connect to (ships can cut off sea connections).​
• Grants the units in that tile the following:
  
  · +1 visibility range.
  · +10% healing rate.
  · +10% strength.
  · Allows upgrading units.
  · Supplies (see Supply Shortage).​
• Ships are allowed to ‘enter’ that tile (just like the Pirate Cove).
• Serves as a connection point for seizing resources (see Seize Resources).
• Must destroy all other improvements in that tile in order to build this.
• If built on a resource it does not provide that resource nor does it allow units there to seize that resource.

Cut off supply line by sea - Unit Action

• Disables the ‘connection’ that Millitary Camps give (makes nearby Millitary Camps ‘not connected’).
• The unit must be within 1 tile from the Millitary Camp.
• The unit will automatically continue cutting off the supply line until told otherwise (like a sentry action).
• Only available to sea units (ground units should pillage all roads connecting Millitary Camps in order to disable the connection they give).
• It is considered a hostile action, so it cannot be done without declaring war to the civ owner of the Millitary Camp.

Supply shortage - Game Concept

• After 3 turns in enemy territory units gain a Supply Shortage 'promotion' with -10% healing per turn penalty until a maximum of 50% health is lost.
• This can be avoided by the following, all of which reset the 3 turn count and remove the Supply Shortage promotion:
  
  [*]Spending a turn in friendly territory.
  [*]Spending a turn in allied territory.
  [*]Spending a turn in a Millitary Camp (new improvement).​

 

[optumystic]

Exciting ideas that require some consideration. I would like to put forth some perspective on the suggestions.

I would like to say that I have been wishing for a better supply system, but the game does provide one.

[*]The unit has a -80% strength if attacked while seizing a resource (since all of it’s efforts are focused on harvesting the resource).

In my opinion, this is a bad idea for two reasons.
The first is that it is unnecessary. Improvements on resources could be considered to be worked by indigenous population (which would explain why the resource is always available with the correct tile improvement. There is no need to have the military unit work the tile.
The second is that it assumes that your military unit has the proper training to harvest every kind of resource. At the very least, it should require a skill promotion, but then only your most experienced military units will be able to harvest many resources but remain relatively useless in combat.

[*]The tile must be within 3 tiles from the border of the owning civ or within 2 tiles from a working Millitary Camp (new improvement).

Why? Either you have supply lines to your unit or you do not. If they resource is beyond three tiles, what happens? Does it evaporate in the warm sun? Is it lost to marauders? This seems an unnecessary limitation.

Millitary Camp - Terrain Improvement

• Terrain improvement that can be built anywhere (even in enemy territory).
• In order to ‘function’ it requires:
  
  · A friendly unit on it, except ships and workers (otherwise it is ‘abandoned’ or conquered by another civ).
  · Connection to a friendly city or to a working Millitary Camp, by road or by sea if built on a coastal tile (otherwise it is ‘not connected’):
  

  - If it is not built on a coastal tile it must be within 3 tiles from the border of the civ or within 2 tiles from another working Millitary Camp (otherwise it is ‘not connected’).
  - If it is built on a coastal tile it just needs a friendly city or working Millitary Camp that it can connect to (ships can cut off sea connections).​
• Grants the units in that tile the following:
  
  · +1 visibility range.
  · +10% healing rate.
  · +10% strength.
  · Allows upgrading units.
  · Supplies (see Supply Shortage).​

• 
  Why introduce the military camp? It is a lesser structure than a Fort, yet it is a complex structure that provides more benefits than the Fort (although a smaller strength bonus).
  
  

  Supply shortage - Game Concept

  The game already has a supply system. It is dumbed down and reduce to a simple gold transaction.
  Units constantly drain gold while in enemy territory to simulate supply. Units can pillage while in the field representing plundering local supplies (which is still simply represented as gold).
  
  I would really like to see a better supply system, but we shouldn't simply stack another one on top of what we have.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Its actually impossible to do unit art changes. I have wanted it forever but the only way is to make 2 versions of the unit and switch between them (one version of a maceman nomal, and one version with a healer in the group). Of course that solution doesnt scale at all when you start to talk about all the different combinations.

Is this how the Rith hero works in Sureshot's Svartalfar mod?

 

[J-S]

Re: optumystic
hehe well I'm glad those ideas caught your attention

Well, regarding the Seize Resource unit action, this isin't for collecting resources on owned territory. It is for seizing an enemy civ's resources.
I think it would be cool because instead of having to wage a huuuge war and conquer at least one city when all you really want is that iron mine you could just go in and attempt to directly take over the mine... that already adds a strategy option.
Also, instead of millitary units, this could be an exclusive worker action
And the distance limit is so you can't just take over a resource anywhere in the enemy's territory and except the imaginary wagon (lol) to transport the resource all through enemy territory...

Regarding the Millitary Camp (and as I said these ideas are related), it's main function would be to allow units to seize resources deeper in enemy territory (each camp extends the supply route a bit more).

I agree that the Supply Shortage idea is not perfect and would greatly affect the way wars are carried out, just thought that it would make entering deep behind enemy lines a less simple task, and thus add more challenges to a long-scale war.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[evanb]

And I also have some FfH news to share. We have new art team members on the FfH team. AlazkanAssassin and Ploeperpengel have both joined the FfH team. Both were already huge contributors. Ploeperpengel has been on the top of the non-team member contributor list since the list was made and AlazkanAssassin created the Lanun units for Light and has been making a ton of animal units for "Fire" (the turtle, gorilla, hornguard and goats pulling the dwarven chariot are all from AlazkanAssassin).

So welcome to both of them!

Oh my, does that mean you're now 13?

AlazkanAssassin, Chalid, Corlindale, C.Roland, Loki, Nikis-Knight, Ploeperpengel, SeZereth, Talchas, White Rabbit, Wilboman and Woodelf

P.S. YAY! for the date

 

[thebonj]

Back to the Q of a few days ago, I've been playing CIV IV and FFH II since Vista Beta 1, and it works just fine - I'm not aware of any changes that would mess things up.

BTW, the Vista question going unanswered was enough to stir me from a log-term lurker in Civ Fanatics, so now that I've been outed can I add my (baritone) voice to the chorus of kudos on this mod? Thank you to all those who've poured such skill and time into creating it, and adding enormously to the appeal of the CIV franchise.

 

[J-S]

noob question: how do I declare war on the barbs if I start with the Clan of Embers?
the last time I played with a barbarian friendly civ, I was able to declare war on the barbs by selecting 'declare war' on the pop-up that appeared when entering the same tile of a barb unit in unowned territory.
in my current game with the Clan, the barbs set up a city with which I have common borders. I tried attacking the city, or any other barb units in their territority but no such pop-up appeared, and there is no unowned territory left to try to attack a barb unit there.
help!

 

[grumpylad]

noob question: how do I declare war on the barbs if I start with the Clan of Embers?
the last time I played with a barbarian friendly civ, I was able to declare war on the barbs by selecting 'declare war' on the pop-up that appeared when entering the same tile of a barb unit in unowned territory.
in my current game with the Clan, the barbs set up a city with which I have common borders. I tried attacking the city, or any other barb units in their territority but no such pop-up appeared, and there is no unowned territory left to try to attack a barb unit there.
help!

In general you don't they do. What might trigger a war is to attack with a unit that is in one of your cities to one of their cities that will bring up the pop up the same way as you asked with the Council wonder. Thats worked for me in the past