[MOD] Fall from Heaven II

Running into an interesting situation, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

I am playing as Ljosalfar, with the Svartalfar between me and the western edge of the map. Not too surprisingly, we are not getting along and have been warring.

Well, the Sheaim in the far east called Hyborem, and the Svartalfar called Basium -- and the Basium-Svartalfar alliance promptly declared war on both the Sheaim and on me.

Joining the Sheaim-Hyborem side is out of the question -- they are furious at me anyway. Given my druthers, I'd probably ally with the Svartalfar, or at least offer them aid in their fight. But I am at war with them, and, in truth must either damage them promptly (at the moment, I would clearly have the upper hand) or take the chance that with time Basium's power could could become unstoppable.

But if I deliver a serious blow to them, then Hyborem-Sheim could become unstoppable.
 
Thats what i allways didnt like in FFH II. Basium declares war instantly vs all known evil aligments. He dont even build up, no units, just the ones he spawn with and allready a war... And keep peace with him is hardest thing to do.

Side with Hyborem, they are more "trust-worthy" than Basium.
 
Basium only declares war automatically against followers of the Ashen Veil. What's probably the issue is that the AC is above a certain level that makes the Svartalfar and Ljosalfar almost guaranteed to be fighting. If I were you, I would fight the Svartalfar and use the bonuses for "mutual enemy" to keep peace with Hyborem-Sheaim. You will most likely have to fight Hyborem eventually, so you will want to prepare for that.
 
Just finished (ok, quit) my first whole game as the Vampires and thought I might post my thoughts.

- My planned strategy (armageddon) never came to fruition. Though I was evil, founded the Veil, gated in the Infernals, etc., I could never build Elegy of the Sheaim. Why is this? I tried raising the counter through conquest, but there just weren't enough cities on the map.

- This is the first game I didn't shoot for archmages with meteors and decided to give the other spheres a chance. I have to say, death magic is really, really INCREDIBLY powerful.
Late in the game I had about 8 mages grouped together with a military escort. 8 simultaneous 'contagion' spells will 100% depopulate any city so a skeleton can conquer it. Magic resistance didn't matter. Actually nothing stood against it, not even level 13 heroes.

- Ditto for Priests of the veil and their ring of fire. This is a unit available early in the game who can get Fire II as its first promotion, making them able to cast ring of fire immediately.
Rings of fire are dangerous to the user, can start accidetntal wars (oops,) and don't do that much damage by themselves. Stack a bunch of veil priests up though and they're unstoppable. My 6-7 priests wasted a stack of 20 units, the toughest of which was a high level heavy crossbowman, in a single round.

- The broken lands. When this began to spread there were a lot of resources on burning sands tiles, making them unworkable. I was able to work this out myself by using 'spring' to put out the fire before moving a worker/adept in. The AI never figured it out.

- When I sent my stack of heroes/mages/priests/skeletons into enemy territory, the enemy responded by sending assassins. Did they attack my liches, archmages, or my patriarch? Nope, they wanted to assassinate the skeletons. Go fig. That descision cost that AI player (Auric) the game.

- Though I was the vampires, I never got a unit high enough level to make Vampire lord. That made me very sad.

- I was playing Prince level, but the only AI spells I saw were a couple low-level conjurer spells. When do the AI actually use their magic? These guys were supposedly more powerful than me.

- The Infernals didn't die this time, but they didn't do much either.
 
beorn said:
Running into an interesting situation, and I'm not sure what to make of it.

I am playing as Ljosalfar, with the Svartalfar between me and the western edge of the map. Not too surprisingly, we are not getting along and have been warring.

Well, the Sheaim in the far east called Hyborem, and the Svartalfar called Basium -- and the Basium-Svartalfar alliance promptly declared war on both the Sheaim and on me.

Joining the Sheaim-Hyborem side is out of the question -- they are furious at me anyway. Given my druthers, I'd probably ally with the Svartalfar, or at least offer them aid in their fight. But I am at war with them, and, in truth must either damage them promptly (at the moment, I would clearly have the upper hand) or take the chance that with time Basium's power could could become unstoppable.

But if I deliver a serious blow to them, then Hyborem-Sheim could become unstoppable.
Click to expand...

Bring all of your units back into your territory. Now go into the world builder and surround yourself with mountains. They will never see it coming. :mischief:
 
Hangly Man said:
Just finished (ok, quit) my first whole game as the Vampires and thought I might post my thoughts.

- My planned strategy (armageddon) never came to fruition. Though I was evil, founded the Veil, gated in the Infernals, etc., I could never build Elegy of the Sheaim. Why is this? I tried raising the counter through conquest, but there just weren't enough cities on the map.

- This is the first game I didn't shoot for archmages with meteors and decided to give the other spheres a chance. I have to say, death magic is really, really INCREDIBLY powerful.
Late in the game I had about 8 mages grouped together with a military escort. 8 simultaneous 'contagion' spells will 100% depopulate any city so a skeleton can conquer it. Magic resistance didn't matter. Actually nothing stood against it, not even level 13 heroes.

- Ditto for Priests of the veil and their ring of fire. This is a unit available early in the game who can get Fire II as its first promotion, making them able to cast ring of fire immediately.
Rings of fire are dangerous to the user, can start accidetntal wars (oops,) and don't do that much damage by themselves. Stack a bunch of veil priests up though and they're unstoppable. My 6-7 priests wasted a stack of 20 units, the toughest of which was a high level heavy crossbowman, in a single round.

- The broken lands. When this began to spread there were a lot of resources on burning sands tiles, making them unworkable. I was able to work this out myself by using 'spring' to put out the fire before moving a worker/adept in. The AI never figured it out.

- When I sent my stack of heroes/mages/priests/skeletons into enemy territory, the enemy responded by sending assassins. Did they attack my liches, archmages, or my patriarch? Nope, they wanted to assassinate the skeletons. Go fig. That descision cost that AI player (Auric) the game.

- Though I was the vampires, I never got a unit high enough level to make Vampire lord. That made me very sad.

- I was playing Prince level, but the only AI spells I saw were a couple low-level conjurer spells. When do the AI actually use their magic? These guys were supposedly more powerful than me.

- The Infernals didn't die this time, but they didn't do much either.
Click to expand...

In version 0.22 there are damage limits to most area effect spells (including contagion and ring of flames). So they cant damage a unit beyond a certain point. To see the current changelog for 0.22 check here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=207471

If you didnt get high enough to make vampire lords you just werent using them right. There is a way. ;)
 
Kael said:
If you didnt get high enough to make vampire lords you just werent using them right. There is a way. ;)
Click to expand...

It's feasting, isn't it. Dammit, why didn't I think of that before??

Edit:

So you're saying it won't be possible to kill with spells anymore? That's too bad, killing things with spells is fun. And realistic.
I just thought maybe you could make it possible to build magical countermeasures, like maybe a ring of warding style structure that adds magic resistance or reduces damage.
 
Hangly Man said:
It's feasting, isn't it. Dammit, why didn't I think of that before??
Click to expand...

Hehe... seems u figured that one out just a little too late (but hey, that only means u get to play ANOTHER vampire game!) May I recommend following the veil and choosing sacrifice the weak together with agricultural civics... then u will get some major cities in no time.

LET THE FEASTING BEGIN! :goodjob:
 
Though I was the vampires, I never got a unit high enough level to make Vampire lord. That made me very sad.

- I was playing Prince level
Click to expand...
I u want countless levelups, u should have played on higher difficulty, so AI would make zounds of troops for u to slay ;) :mischief:

Or maybe just max number on AI's, it sometimes works also :)
 
jselsmark said:
Hehe... seems u figured that one out just a little too late (but hey, that only means u get to play ANOTHER vampire game!) May I recommend following the veil and choosing sacrifice the weak together with agricultural civics... then u will get some major cities in no time.

LET THE FEASTING BEGIN! :goodjob:
Click to expand...

Nuts to that, I'm eating the citizens of other civs. Preferably Elohim or Bannor. God I hate those guys.
 
darkedone02 said:
Use cheats if you really fear that you are in danger, I do It most of the time to aid me partially on tactics.
Click to expand...
:)

Actually, I wasn't describing this because I can't handle defeat. Winning is no fun, if you don't lose sometimes, too.

I described the flow of the game because it was interesting, and might be helpful to Kael. There are three basic routes to take in the game: Basium, Hyborem, and nuetral. While I think this mod amounts to the best computer game I have ever played, I am not sure whether the nuetral route has been thought through completely. So I was describing the game played from that perspective. If this is how it is designed to play out, no problem. But if this is not, then it is food for thought for the designers. (And, if it is something that future iterations are already planned to address, then cool.)

I am also aware that my game might simply be an outlier. Dark elves and elves don't like each other; they are adjacent in this case; and dark elves (and therefore Basium) have limited space.

Nonetheless, I find it odd that Basium would enter the world and declare war on me, when I have positive relationships with all that is good.

One neat possibility: under these circumstances, should Basium demand a city from me as proof that I am on his side? Taking the situation "realistically" that is all he could possibly need from me. Or possibly an insistence of alliance or war?
 
Hey Kael!
I was playing a game and found that the rage spell DOES NOT declare war. It also does not provide real AI for the unit. The units it is used on (or at least in my game) just wandered around. :sad: You may wish to fix this if you haven't. I just recently joined and haven't played for a little bit, so it may just be me thank you.
 
Hangly Man said:
It's feasting, isn't it. Dammit, why didn't I think of that before??

Edit:

So you're saying it won't be possible to kill with spells anymore? That's too bad, killing things with spells is fun. And realistic.
I just thought maybe you could make it possible to build magical countermeasures, like maybe a ring of warding style structure that adds magic resistance or reduces damage.
Click to expand...

Some spells won't be able to kill, but will do damage to entire stacks of units. Basically there has to be a limit either on the amount of damage the spell does or the amount of units it effects. Not having either makes the spell to good.
 
Requesting that the Lanun wonder to win the game be called 'Altarrr of the Lunotarrr.'

Thanks in advance.

Now you're never going to be able to get that out of your head.
 
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