Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Kael, May 18, 2006.
humm very convincing arguments I must consider this further
It is an interesting idea. For it to work well I think that it would have to be 'rare' to get even one of these spell promotion combinations.
I figure with priests, archmages, inquisitors and liches, there are 12 Lvl 3 Spell casters that a civ can have (not including any heroes). I get the feeling that, as is, it might just turn into another grind to get the super spells in order to win the game, which would end up being no fun. If you could only get one of these spells and getting it took a lot of work then it would make for a "I got a reward for my effort feeling", which would make for a better game element. Maybe, and this may have already been thought of by the devs, various quests could be made for the spell casters that allow them access to special spells or promotions (eg lvl 4 fire promotion which would give them access to special spells).
Picture this, your Paladin goes on a quest to defeat the 'Sacred Dragon' (I know there are already 3 dragons so we don't need anymore ), whos scale you need to make the ancient dragon scale armour. You give the armour (ie promotion like orthus axe) to your spell caster, who has attained lvl 3 fire. This allows the caster to walk through the fires surrounding the 'Everburning Flame'. Once your caster obtains the Everburning Flame they gain the fire lvl 4 promotion and can then cast the 'Ifriti's Vengence' spell (ie nuke ).
A multi-stage quest like this could be made and some random elements to each quest included such as the components / locations of the quest being different each game (like finding a hidden resource location) or maybe having only a few select quests in each game to make each game unique. As long as the quests change in some way from game to game that is key. Also, dynamic quests where what you choose to do causes different quest paths to occur would be interesting.
Well it seems like I've strayed from Super Spells but I kinda agree with Ghandi rules. Without some sort of frame work to give these special spell or summons abilities it just gives me more micro managing and grinding work to do in the game. It would be fun at first but quickly lose its appeal.
Is this super spell or combining magic spells thing on .23?
The super spells would never work and would never be accepted.
They may sound cool, but all they do is give an even bigger advantage to a civ that's already ahead. The AI would also have no clue how to use it at all.
the old one looks kinda plain compared to AAs... I hope you switch back sometimes.
Perhaps for special occasions and celebrations.
So you can use super spells on .23 or the elementals not like I am ever a head I am always dead last. so it would n't be unfair.
yea maybe 'Ifriti's Vengence' would be a bit too strong, but if granted once a connected wonder is built.... Thus once a mage gets it and once it is used the mage will be killed as well as the ability. One use one kill so to say...
Great spells would give a hint of the power in the age of magic with the limitation of the current age. And if they are not fun or balanced so that the AI can use them, I wouldnt want them any way. It is already almost too easy to rank up a Beastmaster combine with your 3 archmages with meteor and defeat a whole empire. The greater spells would have to add something more than munchkinism to the game.
The para elementals on the other hand would be for the summoners to counter some of the powerful units (ie paladins, war elephants, shield walls etc). They would be immune to their elements and do damage with both, but have a very weak defence verses the others...
I dunno these are just ideas and if the developers feel that the gain would not befit the time and/or addition to the game then so be it.
They are not in at all... only being dscussed on the forum as a possibility... so they may be looked at by the modders as a possibility if they want to do more with magic (personally I like magic the way it is without Über spells otherwise dwarfs would be useless compared to other nations with mages).
I like Skippa's idea of Super Spells that can only be reached by a quest ... BTW, more quests is what I'm most eagerly awaiting for FFH. Orthus was only a teaser, give us more, more, more!
There was one super spell in the list I'm definitely in favor of: No. 5.
I really wish there was some way to change a mana node! In most games I only ever get 3 or 4 mana nodes, with which I have to make do for most of the game... until I go on a rampage, that is It's such a waste to build a water node, for instance, when I only need it for a couple of Adepts with Spring. I'd love to be able to change that node at some point (it shouldn't be too easy, but at least POSSIBLE). That way I could get much more spell diversity in the game.
I dunno about changing nodes, it would b very happy, but it would make the tower of mastery perhaps a bit to easy...
Although I don't expect then to be implemented (expect maybe in a modmod), I do like the idea of spells that mix spheres of magic. However, I'm not really a fan of your specific suggestions. Armageddon needs to be renamed, as would easily be confused with the effects of the Armagaddon Counter. Glory Divine sounds too much like the bane divine and glory everlasting ritual, and it is odd that is mixes good and evil mana types. Blizzard should definately require ice mana (which hasn't been added yet). Mixed elementals don't really make sense to me. Doesn't elemental mean that it is made of one pure element? I'm not totally opposed to some mixed summons, but not with elemental in their names.
Some "super spells" might be better suited as events triggered by the completion of new rituals. Having their effects be events rather than just immediate consequences of the ritual would give you greater control over them, for instance, letting you target a specific enemy civ. They could also carry diplomatic penalties/bonuses. I generally prefer this implementation, because commands available to a highly promoted caster often get really cluttered, and because there really aren't enough rituals in the game as is. I would like every civ to have at least one repeatable (but expensive), flavorful, civ-specific ritual (e.g., Illians could use theirs to cause the blizzard effect from AoI), and for others to be available to anyone, with possible alignment, religious, and mana requirements.
I personally think your idea is excellent. And the names were just to flavor the suggestions. About the elementals; thats why they are call "para" elementals. They are (from my understanding and memory) a paradoxical combination of elementals from some obscure D&D module from years back.
( it is also nice to see another person from/living in Georgia posting here, though I tend to be the king of lurkers-note the join date...)
Just to weigh in with my vote, I think that the superspells are a great idea. I think that citing an AI limitation, for example, is not a legitimate reason to hobble the future of this incredible mod. I say evolve the mod in these kinds of ways and figure out the AI and other balancing issues as people get a chance to play it. With a game this complex, it's very hard (if not impossible) to predict how things like this can play out.
And again, making these toggle-able from the Custom Game menu would allow "purists" to not have these kinds of potentially-unbalancing influences introduced...
Is the mod on the first page based on vanilla or bts? Will there come a bts version out if it is based on vanilla?
A BtS version is undergoing testing, will be pretty much up to snuff in a few weeks, I expect.
Everything slated to be in the BtS beta is in already, but since it relies n the unreleased patch 3.13, it isn't available for download or playtesting yet. Is is unknown whether the latest patch for the beta introduces any new bugs. Probably the only think left to do is to clean up any new bugs, but perhaps we could convince Kael to go ahead and implement a couple of the things he was putting off until the next installment, Shadow (i.e., Trophies, invisibility applied by promotion, causes war attribute/check on spells, mana bar gui, Horsemen spawn mana when they die, Need to add the Sprawling trait effects, Dirge spawn, evangelist mechanic, Magnadine captures barbarians)
Yep. Wrong thread. I wasn't paying attention.
Wrong thread, you're after the Beta testing thread in the forum, methinks.
Altough that should be in the bts thread I will answer it anyway:
Evertime you pay tribute/help the the AI or vice versa you get a 10turn peace treaty.
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