Mod Idea: The Wild West

[cfkane]

I think I already suggested this in a different thread a while back, but hear me out.

Given the mechanics of Colonization, it might be feasible to make a Western mod for the game. The economic system along with the diplomacy model would, I think, fit the game well. Several of the native tribes would remain the same, and the colonies would presumably be replaced by different factions of settlers from the United States or Mexico, perhaps with special barbarian units representing bandits.

There would have to be major changes, of course. Instead of sailing to the homeland, the map would basically have to be landlocked. Natives would need to be a LOT more aggressive. And instead of fighting for independence, the settlers could have to campaign for statehood, which I guess would mean getting the usual Liberty Bells along with meeting some other criterion.

Just an idea at this point, but I thought I could get the ball rolling.

Thoughts?

 

[Flintlock1415]

Hmm, this looks interesting. I think you could even claim your own territory rather than statehood, given the accounts of the Californian Republic, Texas, and Brigham Young's Deseret.

If you got something rolling, I could lend a hand, if I'm not to busy.

 

[cfkane]

Well, I'm not sure how much I could contribute to the project other than moral support. I'm still busy with Fictionalization and I'm having enough trouble getting that off the ground.

 

[Flintlock1415]

Hmm, I see. Maybe someone else might like to get this rolling. I would try, but I'm not so interested in starting a new mod right now, just helping out with some others.

 

[Onionsoilder]

It wouldn't HAVE to be landlocked - some maps that say, are 85% land with a strip of sea to the south for fishing/transportation. As far as the mod idea, I like it.

 

[Wheldrake]

There would have to be major changes, of course. Instead of sailing to the homeland, the map would basically have to be landlocked.

You're right, that would be a HUGE major change.
Conceptually, there is currently no way to represent *on the game map* the home countries. Ships travelling there actually disappear from the game map, and after a couple turns open a special screen representing in a highly abstract form the home country, without giving the least thought to what cities the home country has, with how much population, which buildings, what sort of production, with what defences.

If you could somehow place the home country on the game map, you would have to answer all those questions. Most importantly, the home country would have to have cities and defenders, because you know that inevitably the player will want to invade.

I'm not saying it isn't possible. But it would require a major re-think of how commodities are managed, how the home country's cities are represented, and how the King's army is represented.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Flintlock1415]

For the transportation of goods, you would need to make Wagon trains the means to replace ships. I just wonder how the AI would react to this...

I think MareNostrum is making it so that 'Europe' is represented by a single city, so we could take the code from there. I don't think the player would necessarily invade the homeland, just declare their own independent state (modeled by the examples I gave earlier). I think all of those people wanted an independent nation, not to declare war on the US.

That said, this would still be a huge overhaul of the game, but very fun.

 

[cfkane]

You're right, that would be a HUGE major change.
Conceptually, there is currently no way to represent *on the game map* the home countries. Ships travelling there actually disappear from the game map, and after a couple turns open a special screen representing in a highly abstract form the home country, without giving the least thought to what cities the home country has, with how much population, which buildings, what sort of production, with what defences.

If you could somehow place the home country on the game map, you would have to answer all those questions. Most importantly, the home country would have to have cities and defenders, because you know that inevitably the player will want to invade.

I'm not saying it isn't possible. But it would require a major re-think of how commodities are managed, how the home country's cities are represented, and how the King's army is represented.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

You know, I've been thinking about this, and the Europe screen (maybe just renamed the "capital city" screen or something like that) would remain basically unchanged.

Perhaps the capitals could only be accessed by river? The galleons and frigates would be changed to steamboats and ironclads, but the mechanics would remain the same.

 

[Flintlock1415]

Thats a great idea, especially the use of the Missouri to expand Westward.

I think the time frame for this would have to be monthly or seasonal, since I was thinking that it would run from the Louisiana Purchase (1803) to somewhere around 1880-1900. I was also wondering if this should only include United States colonizers, or if this should include Mexican, even Canadian/British, or (bit of a stretch here) even Russian Alaska.

I think some of the colonies could include:
Republic of Texas- Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin
California Republic- William B. Ide John C. Fremont
State of Deseret- Brigham Young
I can't really think of anything else, maybe Oregon?

The more I think about this, the more I consider starting this up myself... what do you guys think?

 

[cfkane]

Hell, I'd love to see this made. But as I said, I can only lend moral support.

I like the faction ideas, but if you're looking to use someone outside the US, Mexico would work best with the setting.

 

[Flintlock1415]

I'm trying to thing how to set this up... I think, for simplicity sake I'm just going to go with four U.S. based factions. I think it would work best this way. I know that Piman's Australia mod uses multiple British colonies, so I could model them after that. If I included Mexico, it would be difficult to decipher what colonies belong to who. From what I understand Deseret, California, and Texas all had dealings (for lack of a better term) with both Mexico and the US. Oregon (which I would include) is the only one not mixed in w/ Mexico, but then there's the British.

I think the four colonies with one homeland (St. Louis, I'm thinking) would work out the best. This would be a major undertaking, so I would need a lot of support on this if I take this on. I've got all of next week off from the flood, so I'll see what I can get done this weekend and into next week.

 

[Keeshi]

This mod, would be awsome.


Adn you could still have the traveling. But it would have to be back east, and it would have to be by land(is that possable?) maybe add railroads, and have trains insted of boats, and have them to back east to get trade goods, people, just like before.



And have everyone use the same 'king/president', and have the calvery get sent in if you need help from the 'natives' or something.

 

[Flintlock1415]

Yea, but considering railroads didn't really come into play in the U.S. until the 1830s and weren't major until the 1860s, I was thinking using the river system first, and then adding railroads in later via founding fathers. I will change the name to Founding (or another term, maybe great??) Frontiersmen.

Some examples:
Asa Whitney: Allows railroads to be built.
Lewis & Clark: Same as Vanilla Col
Zebulon Pike: +1 Scout Movement(?)
Davy Crockett: Same as Ethan Allen?

Obviously, this isn't even close to a complete list, and I need a lot of suggestions.

 

[Flintlock1415]

For this mod to really get rolling, I'm going to need some people to help out with ideas. To kick things off, I would like some suggestions for new units, native leaders, and resources names. I could also use some other random suggestions as well, but for now I would like to get these out of the way.

Here are some of the ideas I have down so far:
All factions are to be based off of the United States (debatable, but either each faction gets their own 'King' or they all go under the U.S.)
State of Deseret: Leader= Brigham Young
Oregon Territory: Leader= John McLoughlin
Republic of Texas: Leaders= Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin
California Republic: Leader= William B. Ide, John C. Fremont

The main mapscript will be a modified version of the Great Plains map script in Vanilla Civ. There will be a 'river system' of navigable coast terrain, starting west of the Mississippi and extending all the way to to the West Coast. The American city of St. Louis will be the Europe of the mod; where you can trade goods with the east and be the capital city of the REF.

What I need suggestions for:
Units
Artillery:
Cannon:
Caravel: Barge? (could also work as the Galleon)
Frigate:
Galleon:
Indentured Servant:
Man-o-War:
Merchantman:Steamboat?
Privateer: Bandit?
Regular: US Cavalry? (something else???)
Ship of the Line:Ironclad?

Native Leaders (I'll include all Native tribes, even if I've got the names for them.)
Apache: Magnas Colorado
Blackfoot:
Chippewa: Kechewaishke
Sioux: Sitting Bull
Mojave:
Navajo: Manuelito
Utes:
Crow:

Resources (again, I'll include my ideas)
Sugar: Now wheat; with a Brewer and Brewery instead of Distiller/Distillery
Cotton: Now Cattle, cloth becomes leather. (Expert Herder; Master Tanner.)
Tobbaco:

Banana: Now berries
I also want to add in gold in addition to Silver.

I need lots of suggestions, so please offer anything you can!

 

[cfkane]

Well, since the map is going to be more land-based, you might afford to swap some of the ships with land-based models. Perhaps the privateer could be replaced with a bandit?

I'll be sending more ideas as they come to me.

 

[Flintlock1415]

I was thinking along similar lines; like making upgradable Wagons and such. I was thinking about making a Bandit unit as well. I just finished my first unit for this mod, a Ranger unit (same as a soldier), so I could probably base it off of that. I'm just working on the upload right now, so here is a sneak preview.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Tribes:

Apache
Sioux
Crow
Blackfoot
Shoshone
Haida
Pomo
Kiowa
Osage

others

 

[Flintlock1415]

Thanks, but I think I've got the tribes all in. I'm sticking to 8, just the same as Vanilla Col. I can't believe I missed the Cherokee, and subsequently changed them out instead of Cheyenne.

I've actually never heard of the Haida, Kiowa, or Pomo tribes. The other ones seem smaller/less recognizable, and thats mainly what I'm basing this on.
If you know of any good leaders for these tribes, it would be much appreciated!

 

[Huayna Capac357]

But it's the west. The Iroquois, Aztecs, Incas, Arawak, Tupi, and Cherokee aren't needed.

 

[Flintlock1415]

I'm not keeping those ones, I've stated the ones I've got down in post 14. Somehow I got the idea for a moment that the Cherokee were Western, but I think they are a 'Trail of Tears' tribe. So now the Crow tribe will take the slot. (Could be the Shoshone also.)

Apache, Blackfoot, Chippewa (Ojibwe), Sioux, Mojave, Navajo, Utes, and Crow are my Indian Tribes.