[MOD] More Naval AI

[Bannedwagon]

Fired up FFH with latest version of this mod and it looks really good. The only problem I saw was that the AI goes crazy with popping dungeons. I had multiple civs destroyed by high tier dungeon spawns very early in the game, and I don't remember seeing this last time I played FFH (granted this was a few years ago). Is there a way to make the AI more careful with popping dungeons, or at least wait until a certain turn before popping dungeons is allowed?

I also noticed that the creatures spawning from that mountain unique feature attacks cities now, or was I wrong?

 

[Tholal]

Regarding Sacrifice the weak.

Would it be possible to only have it cause instability for a couple turns then provide stability?

Not with the current tags.

Also a diplomatic option to release vassals would be nice.

Really? Why would you want to release a vassal?

Water seems to multiply any instability bonus immensely

It probably considers everything an overseas colony. I'll see what I can do to fix that.

New Problem: In The Momus, the various armies raze cities with World Wonders in them, ensuring they are gone forever. Is this part of normal battle behavior?

It's probably razing them because they're not in a good financial state due to always being at war.

Is there a way to make the AI more careful with popping dungeons, or at least wait until a certain turn before popping dungeons is allowed?

Out of curiosity, at what game speed do generally you play? I just realized that I didn't scale my dungeon exploration code by game speed so that's likely the cause of the reported civ destruction.

I also noticed that the creatures spawning from that mountain unique feature attacks cities now, or was I wrong?

Gargoyles have Animal AI so they shouldn't be attacking cities, though I see them do it every once in a while as well. Not sure what's going on there.

 

[False Dead]

Really? Why would you want to release a vassal?

Because He managed to sneak a wonder that I wanted

Because He was so pathetic that dozens of enemy troops walked through his border to my cities unmolested and unharmed

Because He switched to Ashen Veil wouldn't switch back and raised the the AC by 20 points despite my best efforts.

Because He sent Privateers from his cities to attack my Pirate Coves

Because He still has Loki in my city draining my finances and generally making a nuisance of himself

Because He has completely soured relations between me and Arendal who I was working to form a permanent alliance with to protect my southern border from the Mercurians who are advancing north and will soon be through Roanna and reaching Arendal's border

(Note this is one Game, Order vs AV )

Perp of the Balph's got Titan in one of his cities just over the border.

His cities are fortified to the extreme and he is attacking east into bannor, but he allows Capria to attack my cities despite their being 9 tiles of Balph territory between my border and Capria's

The pirate coves he was attacking were in a area that no other team could access without passing by several of my cities.

He became Arendal Worst enemy and managed to add -7 points to Arendals opinion of me in various ways

 

[Bickendan]

On that end, might I request that vassalized players cannot engage in or receive war requests? I can't say how many times somebody's vassal would demand I start a war with somebody. No, you are a vassal. You lost the privilege to engage in war negotiations when you capitulated and/or entered vassalhood.

For that matter, vassals should not have the ability to make any demands whatsoever, as they are subservient to their master civ and they risk their master's diplomatic relations when they do so.

 

[Bickendan]

Really? Why would you want to release a vassal?

Because you've annoyed me for the last time by going behind my back and pissing off the civs I've been carefully manipulating into an alliance and I'm going to finish wiping you off the map for your treason, that's why.

 

[jackal1234]

i dislike how vassals can "un-capitulate' whenever they feel like it, after awhile, without declaring war. happens to me all the time while going for a domination victory. i'll have a guy that i knocked down to one or two cities and didnt bother to finish off, and when the domination victory is almost there, they leave suddenly. it's not under the regular terms of breaking the agreement so i dont know what the mechanic is besides trying to stop the victory

 

[lfgr]

i dislike how vassals can "un-capitulate' whenever they feel like it, after awhile, without declaring war. happens to me all the time while going for a domination victory. i'll have a guy that i knocked down to one or two cities and didnt bother to finish off, and when the domination victory is almost there, they leave suddenly. it's not under the regular terms of breaking the agreement so i dont know what the mechanic is besides trying to stop the victory

When a player offers YOU a capitulation, he can break free whenever he wants. You have to make HIM an offer. Then he can only break free by declaring war. Look into the concept civilopedia.

 

[Horatius]

When a player offers YOU a capitulation, he can break free whenever he wants. .

"In both cases, a Vassal State may choose to break the Vassal agreement when any of the three following conditions occur:

Condition 1: The Vassal State looses more than half of it’s territory that it owned at the time it became a Vassal State. For example: Monty become your Vassal and has 4 cities when he becomes your Vassal. Over time Monty grows his Civ to 8 cities total. If Monty looses 4 of his cities through war or culture flipping, he still has 4 cities left and cannot break the agreement. If he lost 6 of his 8 cities he will then have lost 50% of his original lands and can then choose to end the agreement (usually with some terse statement about “not being able to protect us.&#8221 It should also be noted that if your Vassal looses cities, etc. to YOU through culture flipping THAT also counts towards the loss of territory condition.

Condition 2: The Vassal State grows in size AND population to a point where it has more than 50% of the Master Civ’s size AND population. It’s important to reiterate that this is a two part condition. BOTH have to be met in order for this option to become available to the Vassal.

Condition 3: This is a minor possibility which can occur, where the Master demands a particular resource and the Vassal refuses the Masters request, in which case the two states are at war. This does happen, but it hasn’t happened to me since I try to eliminate any potential escape route for my new pets. Since the Master can demand any single resource from the Vassal and the Vassal can’t refuse this single / first demand it’s best to choose the resource carefully, i.e. a strategic resource of some sort. Let’s say you’re in the classical or medieval era and need your Vassal’s horse resource so you demand and take. But later on you somehow lose your source of iron and demand it from your Vassal, he can refuse and break the Vassal agreement. So plan ahead when it comes to your resource requests. And by the way there is nothing to stop you from selling the horse back to your Vassal."

 

[False Dead]

Also because you cannot gift vassals cities, sure you can "return" one of their cities to them but several times I have had vassals without water access and was unable to gift a city that would allow me to open a trade route to their capital( Before gates or Nexus)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't care so much about masters being able to free their vassals, but the rule against gifting cities to vassals is extremely annoying.

I would like it if it were possible for Overcouncil resolutions to free vassals. (I mean specific vassals, the way resolutions for war, peace, or trade embargoes work. I could right now use python to make a resolution free all vassals, but it would be too broad and only a one time thing.)

 

[Broken Hawk]

The attached save locks up when you hit the enter key. I would have completed The Deepening that turn. Thanks.

Would the log files help?

 

[ptarth]

Some oddities I've experienced:

Game setup: Standard Map, 7 AIs + Me, everyone is in 2 player teams
I've Svarts and teammates are Llej.
Whenever my team researches a religious tech I don't get the free disciple, which also means I can't start the spread of that religion. We were first to Fellowship of Leaves, he got the building, and I got nothing. I think I likewise didn't get the disciple units when we researched others religious techs, but I can't be sure. I know I've never gotten any disciples, but I can't be sure we've gotten the techs.

Gamesetup; Standard Map, 9 AIs + Me, everyone in 3 player teams (also happens in two player teams)
My AI teammates seem to stall out and do nothing. They build their starting city, but never manage to expand. Barbarian activity didn't seem very high around their nation. Other AI players don't seem to impaired (to such an extent). Other settings: Raging Barbarians, extra animals, double resources

 

[Tholal]

The attached save locks up when you hit the enter key. I would have completed The Deepening that turn. Thanks.

You just need to wait longer. The Deepening takes a long time to process, especially on larger maps.

 

[Bannedwagon]

Out of curiosity, at what game speed do generally you play? I just realized that I didn't scale my dungeon exploration code by game speed so that's likely the cause of the reported civ destruction.

Gargoyles have Animal AI so they shouldn't be attacking cities, though I see them do it every once in a while as well. Not sure what's going on there.

The game was probably marathon or epic.

Gargoyles will attack cities if there is no culture border around the city (city in rebellion), but I am fairly certain the gargoyles in question attacked an AI city with normal culture buffer.

 

[lesslol]

CvUnitAI::AI_follow method had consumed unusually so much time. After looking other mod's sources, I found the fix "War tactics AI by jdog5000".

Original CvUnitAI::AI_follow

	if (AI_cityAttack(1, 65, true))
	{
		return true;
	}

	if (isEnemy(plot()->getTeam()))
	{
		if (canPillage(plot()))
		{
			getGroup()->pushMission(MISSION_PILLAGE);
			return true;
		}
	}

	if (AI_anyAttack(1, 70, 2, true))
	{
		return true;
	}

Fixed code

/************************************************************************************************/
/* BETTER_BTS_AI_MOD                      03/31/10                              jdog5000        */
/*                                                                                              */
/* War tactics AI                                                                               */
/************************************************************************************************/
	// Pushing MISSION_MOVE_TO missions when not all units could move resulted in stack being
	// broken up on the next turn.  Also, if we can't attack now we don't want to queue up an
	// attack for next turn, better to re-evaluate.
	bool bCanAllMove = getGroup()->canAllMove();

	if( bCanAllMove )
	{
		if (AI_cityAttack(1, 65, true))
		{
			return true;
		}
	}

	if (isEnemy(plot()->getTeam()))
	{
		if (canPillage(plot()))
		{
			getGroup()->pushMission(MISSION_PILLAGE);
			return true;
		}
	}

	if( bCanAllMove )
	{
		if (AI_anyAttack(1, 70, 2, true, true))	// if (AI_anyAttack(1, 70, 2, true))
		{
			return true;
		}
	}
/************************************************************************************************/
/* BETTER_BTS_AI_MOD                       END                                                  */
/************************************************************************************************/

After this changes, my game turn time is reduced from 120secs to 4secs.
Definitely, I think this fix is mandatory.

 

[Horatius]

Holy cow, you - temporarily god and saviour.

Does this mean we can play giant maps on diety?

Ho - ly
COW!

 

[Red Key]

You are awesome lesslol! Keep up the great work!

 

[False Dead]

So first issues:

AI will not build monument, aqueduct, moneychangers and palisade, either as city manager or as opposition, on larger maps the lack of monuments is noticeable in AI empires, as is the lack of aqueducts on slower speeds

Rebellions seem to only spawn warriors, as funny as it was watching dozens of warriors take on aquebusier's it probably should be addressed

Now Questions

Having played Final Frontier+ there is a option to have production overflow, so if you have enough production you can build multiple units per turn in one city. Would it be possible to do this in More Navel? It would really help the Kuriates

 

[Tholal]

CvUnitAI::AI_follow method had consumed unusually so much time. After looking other mod's sources, I found the fix "War tactics AI by jdog5000".

Thanks! I just added your code to my current build this morning.

So first issues:

AI will not build monument, aqueduct, moneychangers and palisade, either as city manager or as opposition, on larger maps the lack of monuments is noticeable in AI empires, as is the lack of aqueducts on slower speeds

Rebellions seem to only spawn warriors, as funny as it was watching dozens of warriors take on aquebusier's it probably should be addressed

Er... I haven't seen any of those issues. You have a savegame I can look at?

Having played Final Frontier+ there is a option to have production overflow, so if you have enough production you can build multiple units per turn in one city. Would it be possible to do this in More Navel? It would really help the Kuriates

It certainly would be possible, but it's not something I'm likely to implement. Being able to build multiple units per turn in a city completely changes the dynamics of the game. And unless you design the game around that concept (which FFH is not), all sorts of things get thrown out of whack.

Think about it this way. You're not just building an army of robots (well, I guess the Lurchuirp are to some extent). You're recruiting and training a host of living beings. There are certain limitations on how quickly that can be done and that's expressed in-game as only being able to build 1 unit per city per turn.

 

[False Dead]

Thanks! I just added your code to my current build this morning.

Yay, I might be able to maintain huge games with all civs!

Er... I haven't seen any of those issues. You have a savegame I can look at?

Not at the moment but I can see about making one, It will be a huge sacrifice on my part though and I might never recover.

It certainly would be possible, but it's not something I'm likely to implement. Being able to build multiple units per turn in a city completely changes the dynamics of the game. And unless you design the game around that concept (which FFH is not), all sorts of things get thrown out of whack.

Think about it this way. You're not just building an army of robots (well, I guess the Lurchuirp are to some extent). You're recruiting and training a host of living beings. There are certain limitations on how quickly that can be done and that's expressed in-game as only being able to build 1 unit per city per turn.

Gotcha just thought I would ask, but it might be a good idea to add it as a part of the Kuriate sprawling and have an extra unit able allowed to be built for every 15 population otherwise Kuriates get overrun too fast by everyone else.