[MOD] Realism:The Third Resurrection

[Feilong]

Hey guys,

First of all I really do think that Realism Mod is the most balanced and real mod for CIV IV. Most of my CIV time is spent playing this mod.

And now for the suggestion:

I thought that could be useful the existence of a unit that could, actively, spread our culture in another city, increasing the chance of a revolt so that city could change to our civilization. Just like the missionaries spread religion I think it coud exist a unit, I don't know how to call it, maybe "Ambassador", that could turn the tide in our favor! Because not all of us like to simply win the game by capturing or razing cities!
I think that capturing cities by means of culture could be a real challenge!

Could you think of it?

Thanks on advance

 

[AvianAvenger]

Hey guys,

First of all I really do think that Realism Mod is the most balanced and real mod for CIV IV. Most of my CIV time is spent playing this mod.

And now for the suggestion:

I thought that could be useful the existence of a unit that could, actively, spread our culture in another city, increasing the chance of a revolt so that city could change to our civilization. Just like the missionaries spread religion I think it coud exist a unit, I don't know how to call it, maybe "Ambassador", that could turn the tide in our favor! Because not all of us like to simply win the game by capturing or razing cities!
I think that capturing cities by means of culture could be a real challenge!

Could you think of it?

Thanks on advance

Performers? rather than Ambassador

could possibly have cultural spread with the hit singles resource.

 

[Los Tirano]

If we really wanted to convert the cities of other civs we could introduce demagogues or bard units.

Have them function like missionaries, when they are activated, hear the sound of public celebration. Not stealth because these are very public and notable figures. 30% chance of converting city, plus their experience. Could make it so they turn a percentage of the population to your civ if they fail, establishing a small movement in the region. Half the military in the turned city join the resistance. Not overpowered because closed borders stops them, and players can see them.

To enable these units add the new tech Demagogy. New techs also slow down tech advance a little and help to correct that problem. For the skin we can use a great prophet in whiter robes, or robes the entire colour of the civ.

What about it Houman? Like the idea?

 

[Los Tirano]

Lastly, this new unit could have TWO options. Try to 'convert city' to your civ or 'inspire independence', which turns the city barbarian. It breaks from whatever past control it was under and goes its own course. No doubt immediately attacking its neighbours in a vicious civil war. Ohhhhhh yeeeah.

Hmmmmm. Now this is starting to sound very realistic. Adding the potential to truly divide and conquer.

 

[Houman]

yay its almost ready...

for future versions look at some of sharick unit graphics that is one good looking trebuchet and other units...

Yeah, we will implement some of his modern units for next release. I didn't take a look on his Trebuchet. Is it better looking than the one we are using?

Thanks
Houman

 

[jeffdawgfan]

Personnaly,

I don't like the idea of the ambasadors/troubledors etc. I am not sure how the AI would use them. Also it would really P*ss me off if one of my major industrial cities went barbarian in the middle of a war. Maybe if implemented it could only be used on a democratic type civic. If such a unit was preaching rebellion in a society that was a monarch/communist/theocratic/police state, etc they would be rounded up and if not executed then sent to the gulag for treason and subjugation of the populace. Therefore I would be against such a unit.

Just my 2 cents worth.

And on that subject. I hate the assassins. Even though I fortify two assassins in my captitol the AI still sneaks an assassin in and assasinates my leader every few turns. I thought that having our own assassin in city prevented that???

 

[Mexico]

And on that subject. I hate the assassins. Even though I fortify two assassins in my captitol the AI still sneaks an assassin in and assasinates my leader every few turns. I thought that having our own assassin in city prevented that???

how assassin works (from my study of python code):
attacking assasin get random number from 1 to 50 as base
then add own experinece and substract experience of best assasin in city (so doesn't matter how much assassin you have in city, only best is counting)
and on this final number depend, which action assassin do in city
< 0 - killed
<15 - failed, but can return (this depend on other random number)
<35 - caused unrest
<45 - kill leader
>45 - city in riot

each successfull attack give 1XP
in your casr, it look like you have not very experienced assassin and AI have much more experienced
(in my case, i had assassin with XP about 15 and in my cities AI can only caused small unrest . I've got XP from barracks/vassalage civic and military academy (9XP) and sending assassins to AI (after few turns they get enough XP)

maybe this help

 

[Lafrip]

HI Everybody
Concerning the Assassin..... i noticed a little bug..... sometimes after successfully starting a riot or killing the guy in the city..... instead of coming back to my capitol.... it disappeared.... and i was unable to have a highly experienced assassin....

 

[Lafrip]

how assassin works (from my study of python code):
attacking assasin get random number from 1 to 50 as base
then add own experinece and substract experience of best assasin in city (so doesn't matter how much assassin you have in city, only best is counting)
and on this final number depend, which action assassin do in city
< 0 - killed
<15 - failed, but can return (this depend on other random number)
<35 - caused unrest
<45 - kill leader
>45 - city in riot

each successfull attack give 1XP
in your casr, it look like you have not very experienced assassin and AI have much more experienced
(in my case, i had assassin with XP about 15 and in my cities AI can only caused small unrest . I've got XP from barracks/vassalage civic and military academy (9XP) and sending assassins to AI (after few turns they get enough XP)

maybe this help

This is the way it goes from my experience... However... An Assassin if successful in his attempt also still some points of technology that the civ you re "attacking (where the assassin is) has and that you have not.... I noticed it a few times....

 

[Los Tirano]

Non-traditional units really need to be in the game, they do such a nice job, and theres so many possibilities. The fact the AI uses them well is just awesome. If your having trouble, try to get them first and greatly weaken your neighbours. They will have other things to worry about than building special assassin units to counter you.

Jeffdawgfan is quite right about pointing out the likely outcome of a demagogue. Penalties to insurrection attempt with certain civics seems in order. But not for hereditary monarchy given the long history of revolts. But it is not an unrealistic idea as not all attempts at inspiring revolt have been unsuccessful.

AND! If implemented and a centre of production did go its own separate way (as frequently happens in resource rich but provincial areas) then you would just have to do what governments do, and crush the rebellion.

Since the unit isnt stealth you would also know who did it. Vengeance for damaging the empire could be served a few turns later. But this is all speculation unless the team likes the idea.

 

[Houman]

We are Borg. We are carefully listening to your discussion.

Hmmm one thing seems to be sure, we need to modify the Assassin Mod on our own. Not only experience of highest Assassin shall matter for defense but also the number of your agents in the city.

Get used to the idea that Great Generals will be replaced by Military Generals in the next released. This means no more Military Academy. That&#8217;s why we have to make Assassin defense also possible with more than one agent in the city.

Regarding the Ambassador idea; this won't work in any civic. Honestly if I came to USA and would propagate against Bush, despite being in a democracy, they would put me straight away in G.Bay. On the other hand however through out the history USA was able to set up revolutions and coups in lots of democratic countries to replace them by dictators that favored USA. So the risk shall be high but possible. We need to work on this idea a bit more though....

Regards
Houman

 

[Mexico]

This is the way it goes from my experience... However... An Assassin if successful in his attempt also still some points of technology that the civ you re "attacking (where the assassin is) has and that you have not.... I noticed it a few times....

yes, you are right ... i don't wrote this, because it is not related to defending against enemy assassin

and your other problem with dissapearing - it might be related to survival chance of assassin which is independent on attack chance (but still depend on experience - look in python code Assassin.py for line with survivalRoll and survivalChance for details - in my game, i lose some high experienced assassin too)

 

[Mexico]

Hmmm one thing seems to be sure, we need to modify the Assassin Mod on our own. Not only experience of highest Assassin shall matter for defense but also the number of your agents in the city.

Get used to the idea that Great Generals will be replaced by Military Generals in the next released. This means no more Military Academy. That’s why we have to make Assassin defense also possible with more than one agent in the city.

hmm ... i tried to modify code for my own game with this (counting all assassins for defending) but in this case it's semms to be overpovered, because my 5 assassins , all 12 XP practicaly disable enemy assassin action in city - reason is limit number of assassin stationed in city, or counting weighted XP for defending: 1st assassin 100%XP, 2nd 80%, 3rd 60% etc... i'm working on this, but i haven't enough free time - my job is time consuming and my daughter too, so i can work (and play) only lately evening

and next idea with assassin: what about capturing great person? (i had some idea, but this is working only for GP stationed in city, which AI always do, but if you move GP out of city, it is for AI untouchable...)

 

[Nightravn]

Hey everybody.....

Wanted to just like you know that the New Version is coming along great, I am actually playing it in using the 1.61 patch so it should be soon. We have moved a few things around and gave others a cost increase to adjust the timeline so don't be thinking you will have Modern Armor in 1000 AD. Oh and the rounds are moving along just peachy.... in the middle of the game around 1500 AD which is turn 500 out of 1000 the rounds are a less than a minute each for the AI. This is based of test runs where the AI is playing each other and the autosaves which are 4 turns apart where coming in at 3 minutes (sometimes 4) between them.

As for Assassin, they do need to be modified but don't know if it will make this release. I don't like the set number of culture it can removes as that can put a city into negative culture which is very bad. I would like to see it a percentage time their experience up to 30% but with a total number cap of no more than 5000 culture or so. This way they can be effective but not devastating to a major culture city. They also as some of you have pointed out need better defensive abilities. If anyone one can modified it like this please let us know as we can use the help.

@Mexico if you could share with us your modifications that would help go along way into getting this done.

 

[Mexico]

@Mexico if you could share with us your modifications that would help go along way into getting this done.

of course, when i return to office (because my home comp is too old for civ) i try to finish and test code for defensive stack of assassin and then i send it to you or houman

next idea about capturing GP is only wroted on paper yet

 

[Spartan117]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163985

different versions of trebuchet.... i think it looks good but i dont know about animations etc...

and another thought... in the wwI scenario barbarians appear in the civ every few turns to act out revolts sort of... is it possible to implement this if like your approval rate is too low or if cities are unhappy....barbarians appear near cities?...

 

[Propunk]

Concerning the assassins, I'm not a big fan of them either. Is there a way to disable them? I mean, some file to edit and take them out of the game?

 

[Pisces]

Assassins are tricky but once you get the hang of them, you never want to play without. I start all invasions with a pair of assassins taking out their capital (removes wall defence) and a third one hitting something else that's close.

They definately seem to have a second roll on whether they survive or not.

@NightRavn

The placement of Riga works well. The AI always pop a city where Helsinki was but for some reason they refuse to build anywhere in Poland. This leaves a fairly big empty place between Berlin and Kyiv (Where Russia always dumps St. Petersburg).

France is easy enough to play. Just have to find a way to get the coins starting to roll in until you get currency. Australia definately got those hordes

I've played all of the civs at least once. If I had to rank them from easiest to hardest I'd go with:

-Egypt (gods of the ancient world)
-Mongolia (gods of the medievil world)
-France (ideal starting location)
-America (boring beginning)
-India (if you can survive Khan's invasion, you're set)
-China (same deal)
-Germans (perfect starting place if you can survive Napoleon's tantrums)
-English (hard to start, easy to finish)
-Romans (you're advantage has a very small window of opportunity)
-Persians(horrid beginning but it does get easier with your riders taking India)
-Incas (Barbarians make this brutal)
-Mali (Barbarians make this even more brutal)
-Greeks (you're going to be invaded.... a lot)
-Russia (Barbarians, Khan and Napoleon..... oh my)
-Arabs (if you can make it to your riders, you're ok)
-Aztec (north or south? Barbarians more than the AI will stop you from going both for a very long time. Very painful starting location)
-Spanish(industrious french make it almost impossible to take them out. No room to grow
-Japan (forget Khan, get ready for more barbarians than anyone else in the game)

 

[jbolton0421]

If we really wanted to convert the cities of other civs we could introduce demagogues or bard units.

Have them function like missionaries, .... Could make it so they turn a percentage of the population to your civ ...Not overpowered because closed borders stops them, and players can see them.

I would like to see the Bard (entertainment troupe ??) as a subtle weapon in the culture war. Have them add one & while they are in town. Each turn they would have a chance to turn a percentage of the population to their civilization. The chance could be inversely proportional to the culture level of the town.
I think the happiness and commerce would reduce the chance of them being thrown-out for being the subversives they are. A strategically placed town may be entertained by a number of foreign bards and reap the benefits of being an entertainment hot spot. AI and human leaders would have decide if it was helping or getting out of hand.
I would make the Music tech a requirement.

 

[Los Tirano]

Pisces understands how to use assassins. Any potential problem or threat can be used to your benefit, and this is definately the case for assassins.

Nice ideas jbolton, but i think inspiring rebellions is slightly better. But we are talking about the same thing with your more gradual and less antagonistic.