[MOD] Sevo's Faces of God

Very enjoyable:goodjob:

I have some questions and coments though.

Firstly, what is meant by 60% spread of the religon? Maybe I am not sure of how religon is spread in vanilla but if a city has it does it simply not have it... and therefore if you get Buddism when you have one city (which is usally the case IF you get it) you should get a Holy Founder for it.

Well in my first play I founded both Buddism and Confusism with only my capital. Never got the founder. THen when I had about 5 cities I spread my state religon (buddism) to them all... Still no founder. In addition in that game I founded 5 of the 7 religons.... This tells me that the AI is picking up on some bug or something... namely that you can not get a founder if you actually 'founded' the religon... Atleast so it seemed.


I played a couple games (about 100 turns or so) and this was always the case when I founded a religon. So I changed Civs (from India to Persia) and played more militaristic. In that game Confusism eventually founded its way to my lands and around the 1000AD I got a founder.

Not sure if you hardcoded something so you could not get a founder if the religon initialized to more than 60% (thus you have 1 city and it is founded in it) or what, but it was frustrating.


My only other comment is on when you get the Holy Founder. All of the wonders should display their effects and their requirements. Currently only the ones you can build show these facts. Thus you have no knowledge (unless you go into Civ pedia) of the other wonders effects or what needs to be done to build that instead... Not a biggy but would just be better to display it regardless I think.

I think I had some other stuff but I am gonna eat dinner now.
 
AWolfe said:
I hope Sevo won't mind that I uploaded it to savefile.com at: http://www.savefile.com/files/4481106 for you (and anyone else who's having problems). RapidShare is almost as bad a server as FilePlanet. They SUCK.
Click to expand...


Thanks AWolfe. I'm uploading my new SevoMod as we speak. I've stopped using RapidShare...I don't think anyone will complain. FileFront works great when it works. It's down all the time these days.


@Oni: You have to have at least 3 cities to get a founder. The other caveat is that once you change religions, you have to spread the religion to a new city. I'm going to have to look again at all my code to figure out what the @#$ is wrong witht MP games anyway, so I'll check things over while I'm doing it and make sure I didn't miss anything.
 
Hello Sevo Ive played with your sevomod for quite sometime and because i mainly play civ4 multiplayer with friends I tend to analyze new mods carefully for balance issues before we jump into them since players can abuse stuff much more than the AI. Ive noticed something:

**** Religious Village *****

Like temples or monastaries, one of these can be built for each religion in a city (e.g., Jewish village, Hindu village, etc.) This represents a small community of the religious followers living together and sharing their common bond. This increases happiness in the city in many ways.

-Requires: Guilds
-Cost 180
-Benefits: +1 happiness, +1 happiness if state religion, -20% war weariness, +3 culture
-Will gain any benefits granted to state religion buildings by holy wonders
Click to expand...

That war weariness is what stands out. At the moment if someone is playing with your original sevomod its possible for them to stay commerce intense in the universal sufferage or representation civic and get -95% to war weariness (-25% Jail, -25% mt rushmore, -25% universal sufferage wonder, -20% from this new religeous village) with this mod,,,, which basically makes the police state civic now useless and obsolete since the -50% to war wariness was a defining feature of that civic allowing you to be much more warlike than non-police state civs. This new building will make it a little too easy to go into berserk warmode while keeping the awesome bonuses of universal sufferage or representation. Even if the player doesnt have the universal sufferage world wonder with this mod they will still be able to get -70% to war weariness which still is quite incredible. And combining the fact that they can now get 2 more happy faces from this new religeous village building to negate even more discontent people,,, the police state civic still loses much of its defining feature and hence its point of even being in the game. There wont be much reason to be in anything but representation or universal sufferage civic if this building is combined with your sevomod, or even with just the vanilla game.

I love your work and am not criticizing this mod, but i would hate for the effort put into your sevomod to suffer from major imbalances for people who want to combine it with this one. Suggestion: consider removing the war weariness bonus on this building. The happy faces already help to combat unhappiness from war weariness, the additional bonus makes it overpowered.

In addition i notice similiar issues that might be present with your new Holy Crusade holy wonder. Im not sure how you feel about a wonder being able to obsolete and render useless an entire industrial era civic, but again this one does it to police state. Also this national wonder risks becoming exactly what Fundamentalism was in Civ 2 toward the endgame. When research and great people no longer matter there will little reason for any player to use anything but this Holy Wonder. Endgame in a multiplayer game will be nothing but armies of modern armor fists of god because any player not using this national wonder would be at an extreme disadvantage considering the others arent too useful endgame. Suggestion: think about lowering its bonus to -25% war weariness since as it is now this is the only national wonder in the game that renders useless one of the most expensive government civics in the game to research. Also consider increasing its negatives (the minus to research isnt that much really and the +100% maintenance is nothing if the city only has a 2 or 3 upkeep to begin with) since it seems a little too powerful as a modern day wonder that everyone will automatically go for as the rest have little endgame value.

I hope this feedback is useful and not taken negatively.
 
I have to agree with naf4ever regarding the whole war weariness issue, there are too many things that reduce it. Also, consider that you can build these villages for each religion, so if you have 3 religions, that's a lot of war weariness that you can negate fairly easily even without the -war weariness effect. Deciding to go to war should be a big decision and part of that is the dilemma of whether or not to switch to a Police State. So, I think that in addition to removing the -war weariness of villages you should consider removing the universal suffrage wonder as well.
 
naf4ever said:
Hello Sevo Ive played with your sevomod for quite sometime and because i mainly play civ4 multiplayer with friends I tend to analyze new mods carefully for balance issues before we jump into them since players can abuse stuff much more than the AI...I hope this feedback is useful and not taken negatively.
Click to expand...

As usual, great comments and criticisms. And you're almost certainly right. I'm not going to merge this with Sevomod for now because I think this mod, while I did it for fun and concept value, is a little too off the standard game to fit into the "theme" of the Sevomod.

Your critiques (and Rabbit's follow-ups) are probably dead on. But that's why I like to get feedback from these forums: because you guys see these things differently and I don't always play the same way everyone else does. I have some other stuff I think could be balanced out, but I definitely appreciate the input on this.

Also, as I developed the mod, I began to use the python more and the XML less, and I'm now rethinking the entire concept of the crusaders. I may sack all the UU's and instead grant the crusaders a +10% bonus when fighting on foreign soil, or something similar that would smooth out a lot of these problems.

Also also--still haven't had time to look at why the MP games crash--but I haven't forgotten!
 
Can this mod be run at the same time as Sevomod, however? And if so, how would one go about loading them both?
 
Hi Sevo

I just got through playing an OCC with your Sevomod. I was a thoroughly enjoyable experience, and I've just downloaded version 2.3 for a game in the near future.

A question about Faces of God: does it play on OCC? Specifically, I'm wondering about the 60% spread of religion, the creation of a founder, and the Holy Wonders. If you only have one city, is it possible to reach these goals?
 
I believe not I found hinduisme and confucianisme both in my capital, i chose confucianisme as state religon, i then had 2 cities both confuc. no founder, later I found taoisme change as state religon then spread it and then I did get a founder, used it for holy crusade fought a hard war and change back to confucianisme again, spread it to some cities who didn't had it yet (just conquered) and then I got a founder. So I don't realy get when you do get one and when you don't. I noticed it only happens when you convert a city, but when you turn your 3the city into conf. and the other 2 already had it I belief that according to your post I should have got one. Or is ther an minimum amount of cities that must have it before you even have a chance of getting it? If so please tell us.

Also I think barbarians should be able to build crusader units such as the guardian or the champion, but I don't know if thats a bug or you did that on purpose.
 
scienide09 said:
Hi Sevo

I just got through playing an OCC with your Sevomod. I was a thoroughly enjoyable experience, and I've just downloaded version 2.3 for a game in the near future.

A question about Faces of God: does it play on OCC? Specifically, I'm wondering about the 60% spread of religion, the creation of a founder, and the Holy Wonders. If you only have one city, is it possible to reach these goals?
Click to expand...

No, you have to have at least 4 cities.
 
I thought that might tbe the case. I finished up an OCC last night with your mod, and not a single founder or holy wonder. Thuogh I believe I came across a barbian as a crusader.

For that matter, none of the AI rival civs had a founder either. We had open borders nearly the whole game, and I was pretty aggressive about spreading my religion. I must have saturated their cities with Buddhism, and they were running it as their state religions. Maybe next game.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.
 
I was having trouble downloading the file from one of the sources. I don't remember which, since it was a long while ago. I got all the way through the process, until just after I was asked to "CLick this link to begin download", the page didn't freeze, but the download didn't start nor did I receive any kind of error message. Any help?
 
AWolfe said:
I hope Sevo won't mind that I uploaded it to savefile.com at: http://www.savefile.com/files/4481106 for you (and anyone else who's having problems). RapidShare is almost as bad a server as FilePlanet. They SUCK.
Click to expand...

You rock.

*builds a statue of you*
 
Sevo is there a way to merge a lot of stuff into Sevomod then have it configurable what you'd like in and out? This religon mod looks interesting, and I typically been playing Sevomod with the 3-square city patch.

Is there a way you can have toggled options? Like Sevo Religon, On/Off, 3-Square citys On/Off, Tech Leak Thru Trade routes On/Off....?

I'm espically concerned about the tech leak thru trade routes coming up. I usually disable tech trading so I can get a 'fairer' game with the NPCs....

Excellent work on your mods, the are the highest quality.
 
Thanks--While merging all of the stuff above together in a manner that allowed easy-on easy-off for users would be possible, it would be pretty complex at this point because it wasn't designed that way, and it would make it much harder for other modders to keep their work up-to-date with Sevomod.

I think this particular mod is really underrated--at least in my own mind--as I did it to try some stuff out with religion and see what all could be done with the game system. I ultimately didn't want to include it in Sevomod because it changed the gameplay so dramatically and Sevomod was conceived to preserve the base game.

But I was recently looking over this mod and I forgot about some of the features I worked in. I'm going to revisit it and see if I can't improve on it a little more at some point.
 
Hi,

this mod seems wonderfull!!!

As I have not a lot of time, a didn't read the whole threads but I still have three questions if you don't mind:
if they already have been answered, just say so, I will read the whole thread in a little while (next week or so)

1) evident one : is/will the mod be compatible with Sevomod And/Or with warlords?
2) do we still have holy cities for the founder of the religion? if not : what is the new use of Great prophets generated by th GP farms?

3) are great founders limited to building holy wonders under the state religion they come from? (if not: I create a holy founder for hinduism(60%), then swap state religion to judaisme (60%) ==> new holy founder. So I can built 2 holy wonders in my civ.)
If holy founders are state-religion-locked : what happen in the previous exemple : using an hindu holy founder in a jewish state religion civ?

4)As holy wonders are distroyed during state religion swapping, do I get a new religion founder if I swap back to the old religion? aka hinduism in the former exemple?
if no: it is not interesting to swap back to an old religion that had already a holy founder ==> it becomes very costly to change our state religion for diplomatic interests... no very interesting
if yes: I see a possible flaw: having already a hindu founder when swapping ==> 2 hindu founders ==> 2 holy wonders...

or maybe you already made something like:
-holy founder cannot creat holywonder if not state religion.
-Holy founder created if (new) State religion reaches (as already) 60% AND no "new state religion holy founder" already present.

5) are holy wonders each limited to 1 at a time per civ or for the world?
 
1) evident one : is/will the mod be compatible with Sevomod And/Or with warlords?

Nope! It's "compatible", but you'd have to merge it with sevomod, and I don't currently plan on making it warlords compatible.

2) do we still have holy cities for the founder of the religion? if not : what is the new use of Great prophets generated by th GP farms?

Yes, Great Prophets function as normal.

3) are great founders limited to building holy wonders under the state religion they come from? (if not: I create a holy founder for hinduism(60%), then swap state religion to judaisme (60%) ==> new holy founder. So I can built 2 holy wonders in my civ.)

Founders are limited to the religion they come from. If you change religions you will lose the holy wonder you built.


4)As holy wonders are distroyed during state religion swapping, do I get a new religion founder if I swap back to the old religion? aka hinduism in the former exemple?
if no: it is not interesting to swap back to an old religion that had already a holy founder ==> it becomes very costly to change our state religion for diplomatic interests... no very interesting

It IS very costly to change your state religion for diplomatic interests. You can't go back...

if yes: I see a possible flaw: having already a hindu founder when swapping ==> 2 hindu founders ==> 2 holy wonders...

Founders are lost when you swap religions, too!


5) are holy wonders each limited to 1 at a time per civ or for the world?[/QUOTE]

No--two different civs can have the same holy wonder.
 
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