[MOD] Sevo's Faces of God

[gianluca790]

Should't there be Assassin units included?

 

[Sevo]

Okay--Going to tackle these all at once. Long post.

Dude.... fantastic work... do you ever sleep?
-=R=-

Yes. On Thursdays.

Really cool idea. I have been contemplating making changes to the religious system myself, but I never thought of this. Really good stuff. Definitely thinking outside the box. Hope you don't mind if I utilize some of these concepts myself.

Don't mind at all. I just ask for credit for any ideas you steal!

Ok, I will be honest. I am more than proficient with XML but python is a struggle. I am more than sure that I am not the only one that will want to be able to use this unit without the rest of the awesome game altering stuff. Maybe a little step by step guide on exactly how to implement this gem into our own game is in order.

I can be more specific, but some basic knowledge of python is going to help tremendously. I'm not saying you need to understand how to write your own classes and whatnot, but this thread has an introduction that's very helpful. The problem is that incorporating this into another game is more complicated that just copying the XML data and seeing it work--the python stuff has to be initiated and called correctly. I set it all up so that it would be easy to do, but it will still require some basic programming knowledge: specifically understanding how the event manger works. Nevertheless, I will try to post at least an explanation of the basics of using the FacesOfGod.py in another mod.

Sevo, this looks absolutely awesome.
That said, I have some thoughts about the mod, even though I haven't played it yet. (I will try it out in a few days I hope.)
First of all, it looks like the Crusade wonder is grossly overpowered compared to its costs. I may be mistaken, seeing as I only read about the mod without playing it, but this is my impression.

I haven't played through a full game with crusaders, either, but I think the costs will be adequate to offset the benefits. Great people will be slower (-25% is significant), and science at -20% will really hurt your tech progress. The biggest benefit is really the +2 xp /city, which isn't game-changing, and the units themselves, which are also offset by a higher cost to build per unit. Still, I could be wrong. If people find that they're being hammered by the crusaders or winning easily with them, we can adjust things.

Second of all, one thing I imagine would be a great addition is the integration of the Religious civics with this religious flavor system. Certain benefits should be on or off according to the Religious civics you're using, and perhaps some of the wonders should be destroyed if you ever select Free Religion (or even Free Speech or Emancipation or Universal Sufferage in some cases.) Surely the violent flavor wonders should not work without Organized Religion or Theocracy.

Great idea. I had wanted to incorporate the civics at some point but hadn't really addressed it yet.

Another thing I was thinking was that there should be a certain focus on the way each flavor spreads its religion. Perhaps, for instance, the Crusade flavor should bring the state religion into whatever city you conquer and have a random chance to kick out each of the religions already there (except for ones founded there). And perhaps with the Archive flavor, whenever you trade a tech to a rival every city of their has a 1 in 5 (or 8) chance of receiving your state religion. Maybe the Garden could spread your religion in rival cities when you trade a rival one of the Garden's food resources? And then of course the Idols and the Monuments flavors should just outright increase your state religion's natural spread. There are a great many combinations of spread bonuses that can be added to the different flavors.

Another great idea. Hadn't thought of anything like that at all.

Lastly, a tiny nitpick - isn't 1 in 5 too much of a chance for revolts in martyr-struck cities?

You make good points, and I guess we'll have to see. It's hard to predict how something will play out in a game. If it's too easy for the martyrs to disrupt city function it could unbalance things (though I made it really hard on the city/civ that builds the cathedral of vengenance, so they do need all the help they can get...)

a smal critc...

your Hall of Idols is nonsens for me.
150% max bonus production, in a citty whit 1 citisen(more not posible -75% foot), a citty whit 11 citisen have more production.
Mybe your give more in all citty bonus...
+1 production for prist ist not big to hold a citty down to 1 citisen.

I'm not sure where you're getting 1 citizen from. There's no limitation to one citizen in the Hall of Idols, your city can grow to any size. Also, note that 150% BONUS production is huge if you manage to get all those required resources. It's slower to make military units and space parts, but buildings and wonders you can bang out like nobody's business. I wanted to leave it to a single city so the civ can't dominate every wonder in the game--they can only work one at a time.

 

[Swissempire]

looks amazing!!!

 

[Nadin Bytefelt]

There's no limitation to one citizen in the Hall of Idols, your city can grow to any size

No limitation Yes! city can grow to ony size No!! Whit wat food???
-75% food... 4 food prod ist 1 food in citty and minus 1 your need 2 per citensen....

sorry for me bad englsh maby this help you:

 

[GIR]

is it possible to give crusader units a penalty if they attack a city /or unit with the same state religion like the attackers one?
(or other way around - make them weaker and give them a bonus if they attack a city/unit with an other state religion)
(and let the crusader knight build a fort like in civ3)

Looks like a great mod, and I'll probably install it later. However, I do have one concern: Is there any way to defend against the martyrs and such? After all, in reality, nations have security forces to deal with problems like these; anything to that extent available in the mod?

hmm, maybe if you have the scotland yard wonder the chances of the panic and population drop event will change...

 

[BeefontheBone]

A thought, and I don't know how it would affect gameply, but wouldn't war weariness actually increase for Crusaders at war with a civ sharing their state religion? Admittedly, that might be awkward to implement and make switching ones state religion an effective defence against the crusading civ.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

I can be more specific, but some basic knowledge of python is going to help tremendously. I'm not saying you need to understand how to write your own classes and whatnot, but this thread has an introduction that's very helpful. The problem is that incorporating this into another game is more complicated that just copying the XML data and seeing it work--the python stuff has to be initiated and called correctly. I set it all up so that it would be easy to do, but it will still require some basic programming knowledge: specifically understanding how the event manger works. Nevertheless, I will try to post at least an explanation of the basics of using the FacesOfGod.py in another mod.

Cool Sevo, I will follow up on this info and thank you.

 

[Quasimodo]

Sevo, playing a game right now, so far so good!

The only 'bug' that I've found is with the Sid Tips of The Villages:

"TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CRISTIAN_VILLAGE_STRATEGY"

To me, no big deal with game play. Don't remember seeing it posted before, but thought you'd like to know.

Keep up the good work!

Just got my first "Founder". Excited to see what happens with this!

 

[homersheineken]

I think my first version included a piece of python code with test stuff in it! Hahaha. Figures. Anyway, if you notice a thunk and a bunch of digits popping up between turns, just ignore it, it's all in your head. Or download my new post with the upgraded martyrs and a fix.

Martyrs have been changed! I must be getting better at this python stuff because I coded this in a few hours after work today.

Now you build your martyrs per usual, then send them to an enemy city. Once in the city they'll wait 3 turns while they set up contacts and plan their op. After the 3 turn wait, they blow themselves up and cause anger in the target city (it'll basically add 1-3 unhappy faces for about the next 8 turns). Doesn't sound like much but it could be crippling if used right. There is about a 1 in 5 chance that the city actually revolts out of panic for a few turns, and there's around a 1 in 25 chance that enough people die to drop the population by one point (in addition to revolt and all that). (multiple uses are cumulative!) If used en masse, a group of martyrs could cause a pretty significant slowdown of production and progress in a neighboring civ.

Also, my playtesting tonight has demonstrated that the AI will use the martyrs correctly and effectively. They come straight at your biggest cities and bam!

Very very nice
That was basically what i had in mind
Now please get out of my head, sevo , so that I can play the game

 

[Sevo]

No limitation Yes! city can grow to ony size No!! Whit wat food???
-75% food... 4 food prod ist 1 food in citty and minus 1 your need 2 per citensen....

At first I thought, what's he talking about? There is no -75% food! But given the screenshot it seems I mis-coded the hall of idols somehow because you certainly aren't getting any food in your city! I'm working all night tonight (real job), but I'll post a fix tomorrow along with the other bugs reported. Thank you for pointing this out. Let me ask something, though--how did you get both a Hall of Idols and a Religious Monument? Did you use the worldbuilder, or did you somehow get two Holy Founders?

A thought, and I don't know how it would affect gameply, but wouldn't war weariness actually increase for Crusaders at war with a civ sharing their state religion? Admittedly, that might be awkward to implement and make switching ones state religion an effective defence against the crusading civ.

GIR made the same point. I thought about this one for a while, because it would be kinda cool if they could only have a benefit when attacking another religion, but there are plenty of cases of holy wars started between sects of the SAME "basic" religion (Christianity in Ireland, Islam in the middle east are just two examples). I like to think that maybe my version of Taoism is different from my neighbor's version, so we're going to war over it. I'm still thinking about it, though. And you have a point--if you're being attacked by crusaders and you switch to their religion, shouldn't they back off? Maybe they should...maybe they should. Would make for an interesting quirk, and it would make the crusaders a little less useful if they became powerless against units of their own religion. Interesting.

Finally, I just want to say THANKS to everyone for the feedback so far! Great ideas from all of you and it's fun to see people getting some enjoyment from the mod! I find I have a really hard time deciding which religious route to take...and that's what's making these games memorable!

 

[Blasphemous]

I'm glad that you like my ideas. Another possible area of effect just occurred to me - diplomacy. Every flavor should affect diplomacy differently. The Vengeance flavor should give -1 or -2 with every civ you don't have a defensive pact with, something like "Your religion's violent ways scare us!". The Crusade flavor should give a larger negative effect to all civs you don't share your state religion with ("Your violent methods of conversion disturb us.") The Archive flavor should give +1 with any civ you trade technology to ("We thank you for sharing your religion's holy knowledge with us.") The Idols, Garden and Monuments flavors should give a small bonus with civs you have Open Borders with ("We're glad you let us see your beautiful monuments."/"We glad our people can see your beautiful statues."/"We're thrilled that you let us visit your breathtaking garden.") And finally, the Judiciary flavor should give -1 with any civ you don't share your state religion with or any civ with at least two last-tier Civics ("Your religion's control of law in your state disgusts us.")
Then of course you'd have to rebalance the flavors, but the integration with the diplomacy system would add alot of, well, flavor.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

Well, Sevo my friend, you know you have a kick ass mod I just love the social engineering factor. This has inspired me to make an entirely new category of civics and implement some of the features in your mod, but in a non-python way.

I like the way you can build those religious units. Since my python skills suck , I had modded my game to use a dummy building that was required to build my religious units. The only way to build the units was to have the civic Jihad or Crusade. The trick was to use the XML to make it so you don't need the building to build the units, just like the Monastery/Missionary combo, but only when you have the civic So, when you added those great religious units, I just plugged them in

Just want to thank you again for tremendous inspiration.

 

[Blasphemous]

By the way, perhaps the name "Crusade" is too religion-specific? Holy War may be more neutral, or even Jihad, since the Crusades were specifically Christian campaigns against Muslims, while "Jihad" generally denotes a holy struggle.

 

[Blasphemous]

Just had another idea... The Idols flavor should do something with the chances to find metals, gems, stone and marble, since the people will all be obsessed with finding good materials for making idols... Maybe the flavor could give a small chance to find metals on any hill tile that a city works, even if the tile doesn't have a mine, and when it does have a mine the chances will stack together.
And maybe the Garden flavor should give a small chance for Rice, Corn and Wheat to spread to a neighboring tile with a Farm when they are farmed and worked by a city.

 

[Nadin Bytefelt]

nnnnnnnnnnn

 

[Nadin Bytefelt]

I make special for you this citty normal:

and whit :

 

[Xanthippus]

I can't even download it. That crappy host site said I had to wait 45 minutes, so I did, then when the time was up it said my IP was already downloading a file (which it wasn't), and now it says I have to wait 80 minutes!

 

[V. Soma]

Sevo!

When shall we see a next version?

EDIT:
you deserve my 1000th post...

 

[GIR]

jo, -75% food; that was a typo (wrong line)

<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_HOLY_IDOL</BuildingClass>
...
<YieldModifiers>
<iYield>-75</iYield>
<iYield>0</iYield>
<iYield>-75</iYield>
</YieldModifiers>

 

[Lachlan]

I will try your mod