[mod] TOTAL REALISM 2.0

>> If you are researching a tech that anyone you have open borders with has you will now get a research bonus to all your cities of 150%.

i consider that rate too high... may be 110-120% will be acceptable.
And it will be good if we can trade complete tech.
 
Serga said:
>> If you are researching a tech that anyone you have open borders with has you will now get a research bonus to all your cities of 150%.

i consider that rate too high... may be 110-120% will be acceptable.
And it will be good if we can trade complete tech.

And then what would be the point of having Tech Transfer? The basic premise of the Tech transfer is already in the game we(*) just magnified it. 50% increased is not to much but still enough to be useful. Remember you only get it when researching a tech that the Civ you have open boards with already has and they get it to on the Techs you have so if you have a Tech Lead it might not be such a great Idea to have open borders. If you don't have the tech lead and you have open borders then you leave yourself venerable to your neighbors checking out just how weak your defenses really are. It's all about strategic choices.. ;)

* - with Naf4evers mod.... :)
 
Pisces - I like the way you think... you are right on..... Even though I try to balance the game at the noble level I think where it is actually balanced for a good player is at the Monarch Level. If you think it is to easy play at this level and you will find it to be suitably challenging.

To Everyone else.....

The barbarians are not there to STOP you but to slow you down a little. You are suppose to take them over just not with warriors. Even with this is mind I have seen the Barbs destroy Many a CIV so you had better watch your back. This MOD is not about which strategy to use but more about when to use it. You will have to make War, or they will make it for you, you will have to build as it is about balance and using all the aspects of the game.
 
Nightravn said:
And then what would be the point of having Tech Transfer? The basic premise of the Tech transfer is already in the game we(*) just magnified it. 50% increased is not to much but still enough to be useful. Remember you only get it when researching a tech that the Civ you have open boards with already has and they get it to on the Techs you have so if you have a Tech Lead it might not be such a great Idea to have open borders. If you don't have the tech lead and you have open borders then you leave yourself venerable to your neighbors checking out just how weak your defenses really are. It's all about strategic choices.. ;)

Is there way to trade with other civs, but not to share tech?
If no, then :sad:
 
Los Tirano said:
The game was originally designed to be somewhat balanced. If you greatly weaken knights the cowards that hide behind their walls will have a further advantage to them. If knights become three times more expensive, they will not be able to take cities, because a smart player or AI will easily be able to build five longbowmen for every knight, if not more. Please consider the effects of weakening the main civ offensive unit for the middle ages.

Why dont the players that lose their cities meet the invading armies in the field with an army of their own? Just like in history. If you dont have an army how can you hope to protect your civilisation?


@Bovine The tactics of knights, the powerful charge to break formations is closer to a panzer attack than the hit and run attacks of horse archers, and the gradual picking off of troops. Units like pikemen cannot move as fast as heavy cavalry, they are not even close to the same speed. And neither can they charge with the sheer momentum of knights.

Sorry, don't have time for a long post (very busy, for a change, at work), but couldn't let this go unchallenged.

How would not being a "coward" and "hiding behind walls" have changed my predicament at facing down hordes of Knights? Considering that most defenders (Redcoats in my case, but most likely Longbows in general) would have City Defense promotions, the most logical place to fight off the attackers would be from behind city walls with CD in effect. So you're saying I was supposed to sally forth to be slaughtered with greater haste in the open field? And that's good strategy?:confused: :rolleyes: I already noted that my defenses were insufficient in this case - however, if my forces were twice as large, then I might have fought the attackers off - but certainly not by negating my defensive advantages. Of course, I still would have had to build some Knights of my own to take the fight to the enemy, but that misses my larger point:
Knights should be ELITE units
I'm willing to re-consider my earlier proposal that they should be weakened (though I still don't agree with 3 movement points), but reflecting their elite status, there should be fewer of them around.
The simplest way to accomplish this is by raising their costs. Another alternative would be to have a national cap, like for spies and missonaries. But it is in no way realistic to have HORDES of Knights swarming the battlefields. AFAIK, the largest numerical components of medieval armies consisted of poorly-armed peasant levies. Then there were masses of foot-soldiers and archers, with perhaps some light cavalry, and finally, a relatively tiny percentage of heavy cavalry (i.e. Knights).
This reminds me a bit of the way Tanks tended to dominate in vanilla Civ4 until some mods finally decided to partially redress the ahistorical imbalance by requiring Infantry for city capture. As it stands now in TR, why make anything but Knights in the medieval era (and even well into the gunpowder era, as well), even for city defense? Given their speed and collateral damage abilities, they seem to be the most efficient use of hammers. I fail to see the realism (or fun, for that matter)...

I guess it was a kinda long post after all - oh well:D

Oh - and I almost forgot, re: "medieval panzers". I am willing to grant that on the tactical level that may be true, but I was speaking more of the operational or strategic level, which is closer to the level of representation involved in Civ4. Operationally, the Mongol horse archers functioned much more like armored formations than their European knight counterparts.
 
You should have had an army. You can make a long argument about the benefits of defence, and it has merit, city defence bonus can lead to victory. Unfortunately they may not attack your city, and instead pillage your resources until all you have left is your cities. Pure defence is especially faulty in civ, as anyone who plays multiplayer against a serious adversary knows.

This argument is avoiding the point that as england they shouldnt have even got to your shores. Why did you not have a navy of epic proportions?

If you dont have a navy you cant protect your ports, just as if you dont have an army you cant protect your cities.

And lastly, i have already explained the serious problems of weakening knights, and bear in mind that as there wasnt a huge number of units in civ (until this mod :goodjob: ) the knight unit clearly represents more in medieval war than the tiny elite. Did you ever consider that the knight also represented the crusader until this new unit was introduced?
 
Guys, Coming back from a long day and have read most of your arguments. (had to overfly the last 2 pages a bit though)

The patch will be released 99% on Saturday evening GMT. We have no more programming coming a long but value fixing. I will be analyzing the Knights / Horse Archer values and Movement rates a bit more tomorrow and discuss the issue with the team. Just FYI the full armored Partian cataphtracts and later Persian/East Roman cataphtracts were the first early tanks in history (if we shall forget the War elephants for now). Through their heavy armor and clash tactics vs. infantry they were able to cause heavy coletral damage. We have given even Chariots low Col. damage to bring down very heavy defended barbarian cities with walls in early game. However We might need to refine the values for cataphtracts and Knights a bit more. Also the movement rate shall be slowed down a bit and compensated through movement cost. Let see tomorrow...

Besides who was critiziting Crossbowmen not having bonus vs Knights? They have already 55% attackbonus vs. Knights, Maceman and Crusaders. So whats the problem?

Good night,
Houman
 
This is a fantastic mod. Playing on the world map as Persia I've conquered everything from the Middle East up to halfway through Russia, to Kamchatka, to Indonesia. Australia and Japan are next. I already have NZ. Egypt is the only other nation to even rival me in the slightest. Oh, and everyone for pretty much the entire game have all been Jewish, barring America.

Two problems. It seems to be pretty slow right from the first turn. Though I see you are still working on the next version and stuff. Second, In NZ the barbarian city should be called Maori rather than Moari, and should be in the north island rather than the south :P
 
Yeah the crossbowmen do have those bonuses. i was impressed when i saw that, because they then become the knight/crusader/macemen hunters.

Standard knights could be set to two movement. But the conquistadors swiftly moved through south america, seizing cities and fighting armies. So either they keep three or have 2 but double move in forests/jungles. We could change movement, but i think its far better to have units that can get around at a decent speed. I wonder if others feel the same way?

Has it only been defensive players that have criticised the good movement for mounted units? Players that dont actually use many knights, and try and wait it out in tech until the next unit comes along?

:move: Of course we could make armies more mobile. Knights keep 3 move, all those who have 1 become 2. Allowing them to move a good distance, or in enemy lands, move to next 'province' and pillage without having to wait five years (again realism). I think this is a better idea, we dont weaken anyone, we allow infrantry to be a little more mobile. Who's with me! :king: :lol:
 
Great mod. I was joking with my wife about some of the comments prior to downloading the mod. Now I understand the comments. Your team should be working for Firaxis. This makes the game a 100% better.

Not being the typical gamer I am having a difficult time figuring out what the functions are for some of the new buttons. Of course I am not that far into the game. When I have a unit selected in a town and select the new button with two hands they disappear. Do you have some sort of user guide?

Again thanks for all of the hard work putting this togehter.
 
Los Tirano said:
Yeah the crossbowmen do have those bonuses. i was impressed when i saw that, because they then become the knight/crusader/macemen hunters.

Standard knights could be set to two movement. But the conquistadors swiftly moved through south america, seizing cities and fighting armies. So either they keep three or have 2 but double move in forests/jungles. We could change movement, but i think its far better to have units that can get around at a decent speed. I wonder if others feel the same way?

Has it only been defensive players that have criticised the good movement for mounted units? Players that dont actually use many knights, and try and wait it out in tech until the next unit comes along?

:move: Of course we could make armies more mobile. Knights keep 3 move, all those who have 1 become 2. Allowing them to move a good distance, or in enemy lands, move to next 'province' and pillage without having to wait five years (again realism). I think this is a better idea, we dont weaken anyone, we allow infrantry to be a little more mobile. Who's with me! :king: :lol:

I'm for that! Hear Hear! :crazyeye:

I always wanted faster units. Could run into imbalances though. :mischief:

Too bad I can't play this mod. Still too slow.... and I don't have the time to do so because of other things....... :(

And I have a great system too, I imagine the majority of you are playing with less and I just can't fathom the patience you guys have.

Athlon 64 3400+
1536 RAM
7600GT

:(
 
Underdawg said:
I just can't fathom the patience you guys have.


omg by the time i get to industrial age i have to wait about 40 minutes for each turn, plus if my screen saver comes up my graphics card crashes and i have to restart adding another 20 minutes for the game to load up again.......it's a real *****, the only answer seems to conquer everything before then!
 
Scorpion II said:
...Not being the typical gamer I am having a difficult time figuring out what the functions are for some of the new buttons. Of course I am not that far into the game. When I have a unit selected in a town and select the new button with two hands they disappear. Do you have some sort of user guide?...
There's a README file for the PLE (Plot List Enhancement) MOD in the Total Realism MOD folder which explains the buttons functions.
 
Good morning everyone,

I see again the same questions we have already answered every 2 pages. hehe No one likes reading. anyway, the performance issues you have will be fixed with the patch tonight!!! Judaism takes over the world is a bug and will be fixed night!!! The two hand mean contract out a unit and the icons are the new PLE. More information in the patch tonight.

Stay tuned...
 
hs1611 said:
There's a README file for the PLE (Plot List Enhancement) MOD in the Total Realism MOD folder which explains the buttons functions.
but this 2-hand button is for mercenary mod - you can contract-out your own unit as mercenary - if other civ hire it, you can get some money for contract and also small amout on every turn
 
Mexico said:
but this 2-hand button is for mercenary mod - you can contract-out your own unit as mercenary - if other civ hire it, you can get some money for contract and also small amout on every turn
My mistake. I missed the part about:
Scorpion II said:
...and select the new button with two hands...
and my answer should be only for:
Scorpion II said:
...what the functions are for some of the new buttons...
meaning PLE. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Nightravn said:
@Isca and Geebo - you don't have to remove the empty folder but if you have anything in there you would want to remove it as it "could" cause conflicts with the changes we have made in the Mod as they would overwrite the same file that we have. As for Blue Marble we have that implemented in the mod so no worries there mate!! :)

@Toys - we haven't done any pedia work but if you are volunteering we love to have ya!! :D

@ibcoltscrew - what you are experiencing is NOT a bug but is a aspect of the stack aid promotions. It is NOT recommended to have more than 15 units in a stack. You can have more but it gives penalties in moving and negates some of those stack aid promotions.

@Pisces - ain't it great? The AI will do some pretty Player like moves. Get ya when ya down and gang up on ya too.

Thanks to everyone else for the Nice comments
Great Mod! I am usually over on the TAM forum because I am addicted to the ancient warfare aspects of that mod. But when I play an ancient to modern game your mod will be the one I will play most often. I love being stabbed in the back and having to fight multi-front wars. I always keep a rapid deployment force ready to deal out some punishment to former allies and/or neutrals.
 
Pisces said:
Conquering a city now eliminates it's old culture it seems. You need to found a religeon in there or pop in an obelisk very quickly if you plan on keeping the city.

I however am an angry despot and prefer razing a city to the ground and founding a fresh, clean city ready to go. Well ok unless it has a useful wonder then I'll let the pit of foriegn despair exist within my borders tainting somewhat my cultural purity.

Hard to believe I'm a community outreach director by day? :lol:
And I am a social worker. The foreign mob trembled and their bowels turned to water as Pharoah's chariots thundered down upon them! There crys of agony and despair warmed Pharoah's heart. :lol:
 
Pisces said:
@ Manwiththehands
By all means, if you don't like a mod rip it off of your computer and move on. Since you paid nothing to try out a group of people's efforts you got exactly what you paid for. To call their effort worthless and a waste of time is not only rude but makes you sound like an ego centric idiot. I could care less what you think of the mod. If 30 seconds is too long to wait then the modern era would be a real treat for you! It's called multi-tasking. Folding laundry, getting a drink, chasing your brats around and throwing sock balls at them is what happens while you wait for the Russians to continue their crusade against the Mongals while you wait for your turn to take out the Japanese. I'd also suggest you never play multi-player.

@ the team, take all the bloody time you want. Compared to TetTurkan's 2 year + wait for his newest version and even then only a partial release, this is amazingly fast. Coding is about as exciting as mowing your back lawn with a pair of scissors. If I feel that the merc. mod is unbalanced, I won't use it. I'm still getting used to all of the changes and I absolutely refuse to use slavery after watching three of my cities go down to revolt :cry: . The game plays a lot faster now than it did and the new units, both flavour and tactical are fun to experiment with.

@Nightrvn
In the past you have helped the Japanese and the Greeks because they were far too weak but I must ask that something be done for the Romans. Simply put they are pointless. The Roman empire expanded the entire continent of Europe minus Scandinavia as well as parts of the middle east and Africa. Leaving Rome to rot if the AI plays it in every single game played seems almost a tragedy. Is there a way to increase it's agressiveness towards Greece, France and Germany to almost garauntee they try and expand? Resource placement seems to do nothing. At most, if they are very lucky Antium will end up in Monaco. Usually it's just Rome. The Rome, Athens wars were many and they just do not happen. Perhaps a gold mine nearby would give them the resources needed to expand their armies and perhaps march forward? They certainly don't need anymore fish.
You are so right! As another apostle of the religion of Tet; I have also been waiting for 2 years. But if you cannot hang, then do it yourself; a shout out to all of the people who can criticize but have not (probably cannot) done it themselves. I tried to help create an Africa Mod in the TAM universe about 3-4 years ago that collapsed mid-stream because of too much work and not enough workers. So it is not an easy take a couple of hours and bam! You have a MOD. A lot of people with pre-adolescent personalities do not know how to give and/or receive criticism without getting uptight.
 
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