johny smith
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2007
- Messages
- 2,273
Looks good.
[MOD] Triangle Trade
- Thread starter Dom Pedro II
- Start date
Looks excellent.
Finally, slaves will be allowed to become stateman, preacher, etc... ? No tasks will be forbidden (stateman slave sounds strange)?
I like very much the idea of bartner instead of trading in Africa (merchandises/rhum/weapons... in exchange of slaves), but it would be probably quite difficult to implement.
Finally, slaves will be allowed to become stateman, preacher, etc... ? No tasks will be forbidden (stateman slave sounds strange)?
I like very much the idea of bartner instead of trading in Africa (merchandises/rhum/weapons... in exchange of slaves), but it would be probably quite difficult to implement.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
I'm going to also add new code blocking slaves from becoming statesmen and preachers.
Actually, it would be fairly simple.
Onionsoilder
Reaver
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2007
- Messages
- 3,173
An idea for the DoI could be that with the All Men are Free option, all Slaves become normal units(and hence can be drafted into the army), or with Slavery, they remain as Slaves. You could also make slaves cost less money then normal units. In addition, with All Men are Free, Converted Natives should be turned into normal colonists as well.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Hi All,
I haven't read all the posts. My apologies if i repeat an already made question.
Will you add a system where Slaves can revolt ? Or simply flee away ?
A good thing can be a system that compare the number of "soldiers" to the number of "slaves". A ratio between these two "units" would give the chance of revolt or slave escape. It doesn't have to be devastating, but just annoying enough to force the players to take care of the number of slaves in a city.
Take your time to make your mod, it seems very interesting and promising.
Hian the Frog.
I haven't read all the posts. My apologies if i repeat an already made question.
Will you add a system where Slaves can revolt ? Or simply flee away ?
A good thing can be a system that compare the number of "soldiers" to the number of "slaves". A ratio between these two "units" would give the chance of revolt or slave escape. It doesn't have to be devastating, but just annoying enough to force the players to take care of the number of slaves in a city.
Take your time to make your mod, it seems very interesting and promising.
Hian the Frog.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
I'm planning to release at the end of the week. It's been a busy few days and I've been distracted with other things. The next release will be chock full of new goodies including Colonial Charters, Africa Screen, Slaves, home country fleets and port closings. There will be a couple other miscellaneous items.
Jeckel
Great Reverend
Your like a modding machine gun. 
Ekmek
on steam: ekmek_e
maybe add a hidden nationality (like privateer) land unit for the natives so they can do small raids without war declared
rf900
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 194
I am working on this, the main problem is that they appear to be a bit passive. I have used the AI from the privateer which probably it is not a good idea. But it is fun to see messages saying "the enemy is close to x" and you see a brave with hidden nationality roaming your colonies.
I think too it is an interesting idea. It should be easy to implement it but the question (as always) would be : how the IA will use it?
It would be quite close to original Colonization actually, where sometimes there were "indians raid" althought you were in peace (but with bad relations) with them.
It would be quite close to original Colonization actually, where sometimes there were "indians raid" althought you were in peace (but with bad relations) with them.
Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
The AI would need to be limited in how it used this. I would say that they should only attack those they have bad standings with, and the chance they will attack at all should be maybe half or less. Because I could see the player getting spammed by these units without some kind of check.
rf900
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 194
Well, leaving them with the same AI as the privateer made them pretty passive. Most of them went to their respective nations villages, maybe because if was the beginning of the game and they didn't have any defenders.
I will have to test it more but they didn't appear to be very aggressive.
I will have to test it more but they didn't appear to be very aggressive.
A good example of different approaches to slavery was what happened in South Carolina. There were basically two ways to organize slave labor:
1. Gangs
2. Tasks
Gangs were formed to make work more efficient but required supervisors. Also 'playing dumb' and other forms of obstruction were common. In gang labor slave comunities mutiny was more likely to happen, especially if the slaves were brought directly from Africa (some of them were wariors prior to being enslaved; the slaves fro West Indies, e.g. Barbados, were much less belligerent, and the length of slaves presence in the colony should be a appeasing factor). You might think of introducing a new 'profession' - slave overseer (and possibly some building to put them in), and it would require, say' one overseer per three slaves. This would increase slave productivity, but it would bind some free population that could be used elsewhere. Another drawback could be a negative impact of gang slave labor on liberty bells.
Task oriented labor meant that slaves are free to do their own things once they complete the task, and no overseers are required. Productivity might be lower, but there was no obstruction (which may recur randomly in gang labor system by lowering productivity of some building/lower yield etc. for a few turns), no free population is kept busy, and there was considerably less tension among slaves. However, it was easier for slaves to run away in such conditions, as well.
As far as keeping slaves under control, there were militias of gentry whose only purpose was to seek runaway slaves, and this job could also be required to limit/prevent slaves escaping (and bind free population).
It is not true that slaves were limited to farming jobs only, and they did them inefficiently. In the North, the largest slave populations were concentrated near ironworks and other heavy industries. In the South, the slaves were expert in lake and river fishing, and they were indispensable when growing rice (I wonder why this crop is not in the game, being a real cash cow for the early South Carolininan farmers, and it grew fantastically on swamps) because they had experience from Africa, and they were (mostly) much more immune to malaria than Europeans (sickle-cell disease that worked like a vaccine).
I realize these ideas might be somewhat complex and hard to implement in the game, but I guess the need of more complexity is behind this mod.
Anyway, even now, I am greatly impressed with your job.
1. Gangs
2. Tasks
Gangs were formed to make work more efficient but required supervisors. Also 'playing dumb' and other forms of obstruction were common. In gang labor slave comunities mutiny was more likely to happen, especially if the slaves were brought directly from Africa (some of them were wariors prior to being enslaved; the slaves fro West Indies, e.g. Barbados, were much less belligerent, and the length of slaves presence in the colony should be a appeasing factor). You might think of introducing a new 'profession' - slave overseer (and possibly some building to put them in), and it would require, say' one overseer per three slaves. This would increase slave productivity, but it would bind some free population that could be used elsewhere. Another drawback could be a negative impact of gang slave labor on liberty bells.
Task oriented labor meant that slaves are free to do their own things once they complete the task, and no overseers are required. Productivity might be lower, but there was no obstruction (which may recur randomly in gang labor system by lowering productivity of some building/lower yield etc. for a few turns), no free population is kept busy, and there was considerably less tension among slaves. However, it was easier for slaves to run away in such conditions, as well.
As far as keeping slaves under control, there were militias of gentry whose only purpose was to seek runaway slaves, and this job could also be required to limit/prevent slaves escaping (and bind free population).
It is not true that slaves were limited to farming jobs only, and they did them inefficiently. In the North, the largest slave populations were concentrated near ironworks and other heavy industries. In the South, the slaves were expert in lake and river fishing, and they were indispensable when growing rice (I wonder why this crop is not in the game, being a real cash cow for the early South Carolininan farmers, and it grew fantastically on swamps) because they had experience from Africa, and they were (mostly) much more immune to malaria than Europeans (sickle-cell disease that worked like a vaccine).
I realize these ideas might be somewhat complex and hard to implement in the game, but I guess the need of more complexity is behind this mod.
Anyway, even now, I am greatly impressed with your job.
LingLinsRevenge
Chieftain
It seems to me that if you have slaves in the game, you must have slave revolts.
There are a number of ways that this could be implemented, but I like the suggestion of making it a ratio of military to slaves per colony:
OK a quick idea --
Anti -revolt factors / revolt factors
Anti revolt factors --
min(number of guns /75) ,number of non slave, non servant, non criminal colonists) using holdenhk's idea of armed gentry
+ number of expert statesmen (good leaders give promise of future)
+ number of military units in city * 2 (military units are key)
+ number of scouts in city (scout units do not have much use after exploration phase, and scouts are good at pursuing runaways)
Revolt factors
number of slaves producing LB (player's choice, is a risky move)
+ number of slaves producing crosses (player's choice, is a risky move)
+ number of slaves * colony rebelliousness percent
+ number of indentured servants * colony rebelliousness percent
+ number of sugar squares under cultivation (sugar cultivation is very hard)
If another Leader revolts, and frees slaves, double colony rebelliousness percent (same idea as Emancipation effect in CIV 4)
A note on permitting slave to produce LB and crosses -- upthread -- it was mentioned that it should be prohibited -- I think let people do it, just reflect the possible costs. I am intentionally double counting LB and cross producers on the revolt side.
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti-revolt factors > 1 then
-1 to production of slaves
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti-revolt factors > 2 then
production of slaves is zero
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti -revolt factors > 3 then
city goes into slave revolt
-- all non slave, non indentured servants flee city, become external colonists.
-- 1/2 of guns and horses are available for creation of soldiers and scouts in the gentry (non indentured and non criminal colonists).
-- All slaves become soldiers and are at war
This idea should not require a Slave civilization, but it could.
check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_revolt#South_America_and_Caribbean
for other ideas
There are a number of ways that this could be implemented, but I like the suggestion of making it a ratio of military to slaves per colony:
OK a quick idea --
Anti -revolt factors / revolt factors
Anti revolt factors --
min(number of guns /75) ,number of non slave, non servant, non criminal colonists) using holdenhk's idea of armed gentry
+ number of expert statesmen (good leaders give promise of future)
+ number of military units in city * 2 (military units are key)
+ number of scouts in city (scout units do not have much use after exploration phase, and scouts are good at pursuing runaways)
Revolt factors
number of slaves producing LB (player's choice, is a risky move)
+ number of slaves producing crosses (player's choice, is a risky move)
+ number of slaves * colony rebelliousness percent
+ number of indentured servants * colony rebelliousness percent
+ number of sugar squares under cultivation (sugar cultivation is very hard)
If another Leader revolts, and frees slaves, double colony rebelliousness percent (same idea as Emancipation effect in CIV 4)
A note on permitting slave to produce LB and crosses -- upthread -- it was mentioned that it should be prohibited -- I think let people do it, just reflect the possible costs. I am intentionally double counting LB and cross producers on the revolt side.
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti-revolt factors > 1 then
-1 to production of slaves
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti-revolt factors > 2 then
production of slaves is zero
If ratio of revolt factors / Anti -revolt factors > 3 then
city goes into slave revolt
-- all non slave, non indentured servants flee city, become external colonists.
-- 1/2 of guns and horses are available for creation of soldiers and scouts in the gentry (non indentured and non criminal colonists).
-- All slaves become soldiers and are at war
This idea should not require a Slave civilization, but it could.
check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_revolt#South_America_and_Caribbean
for other ideas
LingLinsRevenge
Chieftain
Ah -- I noticed that Dom P plans a Slave Society. That is great!
Sorry -- I did not do all the research I could have.
That being the case, then a city going into slave revolt would join the Maroon civilization, in addition to the other effects.
Sorry -- I did not do all the research I could have.
That being the case, then a city going into slave revolt would join the Maroon civilization, in addition to the other effects.
This is one hell of a mod Dom Pedro. I have a question though...
I love your idea of the coastal trader. How would I pull that little unit out of your mod and add it to the base game files?
I see it's listing in unitinfos, and I'm pretty sure I just can't copy it out of there and paste it in to another unitinfos xml file.
*update*
So apparently I AM smart enough to figure out how to get the unit in to the game. However, I'm now at the point where I define that the Unit can not sail to Europe or explore unexplored Areas. Now, I believe that involves editing the CvGameCoreDLL.dll. Am I right? And if so, what can I use to edit it?
Thanks.
I love your idea of the coastal trader. How would I pull that little unit out of your mod and add it to the base game files?
I see it's listing in unitinfos, and I'm pretty sure I just can't copy it out of there and paste it in to another unitinfos xml file.
*update*
So apparently I AM smart enough to figure out how to get the unit in to the game. However, I'm now at the point where I define that the Unit can not sail to Europe or explore unexplored Areas. Now, I believe that involves editing the CvGameCoreDLL.dll. Am I right? And if so, what can I use to edit it?
Thanks.
