[MOD] Ultimate Strategy

[Gunner]

So do you actually have to be allied with a civ for this guy to work, or is it just open borders? You should try to make that clear in the first post.

 

[naf4ever]

So do you actually have to be allied with a civ for this guy to work, or is it just open borders? You should try to make that clear in the first post.

I say allied loosely because if you can think of another way that your going to get one of your units thats not a spy into a foreign city without open borders,,, id love to hear how

The science rep is extremely easy to use and figure out once you try it. If you see a tech thats tradeable in the foreign advisor screen and want a research bonus for it, move the science rep to that guys city. Obviously doing this without open borders will be difficult.

 

[Houman]

Naf,

Release the stand alone version. NOW!!!

Thanks
Houman

 

[madAzrael]

nice mod!

i played a singleplayer (noble) game with normal speed and figured out: the science-rep is much too strong (against AI !?)...

To test the mod i reseached writing early and built my science rep right after that. i placed him in my neighbors capital and 5 rounds later i had allready 2 great scientists joining my cause... uhm.. okay. lucky day
with that good start and the bonus on my research i could research faster than any AI and research old techs even faster.
Well, i guess, thats okay, because no AI build the science-rep

but in this game i got 15 or more great scientists. that's too much.
dont know what's the chance to get one though.... too high i guess

btw: on normal-speed i couldnt catch up with building because my research was so fast.

i never experienced that in a noble-game before

 

[ilteroi]

so if you can convince foreign scientist to defect to your empire, have you thought about emigration and immigration of plain citizens as well?

a city with a lot of culture could attract people from surrounding (foreign?) cities. this can be a good thing, but if you cannot support the growth of the population happiness- or healthwise, it becomes a problem. like a rebellion, but not as harsh.

just an idea

/christoph

 

[SwordOfJustice]

I've played this mod too. Fantastic aims and thinking behind the mod, by the way.

I also found way too many great scientists generated with the new tech sharing model. I actually much prefer the previous model where you would get bonus research points. Better balanced and less micro management with not having to get a great person back to your capital safely.

There seems to be a major bug with the mod at the moment. I have to abandon my current game because the small + and - buttons that lets assign specialists in a city are screwed up. I unassigned some workers from tiles and could not place them back. Meant that one of my largest cities is starving to death with lots of specialists that I can't put back to work.

I have just cleared the Civ4 cache on my PC and will try again after that. But I'm thinking it might be related to the implementation of the new slave worker type.

Keep up the great work!!


Cheers,
Sword

 

[naf4ever]

nice mod!

i played a singleplayer (noble) game with normal speed and figured out: the science-rep is much too strong (against AI !?)...

To test the mod i reseached writing early and built my science rep right after that. i placed him in my neighbors capital and 5 rounds later i had allready 2 great scientists joining my cause... uhm.. okay. lucky day
with that good start and the bonus on my research i could research faster than any AI and research old techs even faster.
Well, i guess, thats okay, because no AI build the science-rep

but in this game i got 15 or more great scientists. that's too much.
dont know what's the chance to get one though.... too high i guess

btw: on normal-speed i couldnt catch up with building because my research was so fast.

i never experienced that in a noble-game before

Hmmmmm,, this sounds like a bug. Its only suppose to be 1% a turn, ill recheck the formula,, this is probably easy to fix. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[naf4ever]

I've played this mod too. Fantastic aims and thinking behind the mod, by the way.

I also found way too many great scientists generated with the new tech sharing model. I actually much prefer the previous model where you would get bonus research points. Better balanced and less micro management with not having to get a great person back to your capital safely.

There seems to be a major bug with the mod at the moment. I have to abandon my current game because the small + and - buttons that lets assign specialists in a city are screwed up. I unassigned some workers from tiles and could not place them back. Meant that one of my largest cities is starving to death with lots of specialists that I can't put back to work.

I have just cleared the Civ4 cache on my PC and will try again after that. But I'm thinking it might be related to the implementation of the new slave worker type.

Keep up the great work!!


Cheers,
Sword

The problem you mentioned might be related to the specialist stacker mod... Let me check it out.

 

[naf4ever]

Naf,

Release the stand alone version. NOW!!!

Thanks
Houman

I already did Houman but your mailbox was full when i tried to tell you about it heh. Anyway let me fix the great scientist probablity problem first anyway and flush out some other balance issues.

 

[naf4ever]

Ok I fixed i think i fixed the bug with great scientists happening too much. Download the new patch and let me know how it works. It should only REALLY be 1% a turn now which means over the course of a game you shoudnt get more than a few at most. There was a loop problem before so the 1% chance would get checked multiple times a turn for every player/city on the map. This is why i didnt see it testing since my test games usually involve only a small amount of players and cities.

There seems to be a major bug with the mod at the moment. I have to abandon my current game because the small + and - buttons that lets assign specialists in a city are screwed up. I unassigned some workers from tiles and could not place them back. Meant that one of my largest cities is starving to death with lots of specialists that I can't put back to work.

Check out this picture, is this the problem your having with "Citizen" specialists? With no button to un-add them? (In a side note you can see i was testing out the great scientist bug too.)

If so you just have to click on the button that says "Turn on citizen automation" and it should put them back to work on the tiles or other specialists... If this isnt your problem describe it more or take a screenshot so i can see it. Thanks.

I actually much prefer the previous model where you would get bonus research points. Better balanced and less micro management with not having to get a great person back to your capital safely.

Nothing is finalized. Im listening and gathering feedback from all sorts... If the science rep just ends up becoming an annoyance and isnt fun, i'll most likely alter this role. What i can do is make the tech bonus automatic so you get it if you are researching the approrpriate tech regardless of your science rep. Then maybe change around what the rep unit does.

Just keep posting some feedback and how its working out.

 

[Nightravn]

Naf I must say I don't particularly like the Science Rep way of Tech Trading. Just seems a little Hokey. I like the older version but think it could be refined a little to have it based off of Trade Routes. That is usually the way Technology passes from one CIV to another. Merchants going to other Cities would bring back information on the things they saw and experienced. You could also add an ability to the Spy to be able to steal some Technology giving them much more use then they normally do.

 

[naf4ever]

Naf I must say I don't particularly like the Science Rep way of Tech Trading. Just seems a little Hokey. I like the older version but think it could be refined a little to have it based off of Trade Routes. That is usually the way Technology passes from one CIV to another. Merchants going to other Cities would bring back information on the things they saw and experienced. You could also add an ability to the Spy to be able to steal some Technology giving them much more use then they normally do.

This was the original idea to begin with since open borders basically means trade routes in this game. You cant have one without the other. And open borders seems like a logical thing to attribute tech bonuses from since it means companies are trading and sharing technology, academics are doing exchange programs and the things like you said are happening. Because of time contraints im not able to playtest as many games as Id like from beginning to end in order to test these things out. Thats why you guys are sort of my guinea pigs

I'll admit the last couple of games i got to play that lasted awhile, the science rep started to seem more like a hassel when things got going. Especially during the late game when theres already enough to do with managing cities and units. This is what im thinking of doing:

• Make the bonus totally passive like it was before (but without the out-of-sync errors). If you're researching a tech that someone you have open borders already has, you will get the bonus automatically. This basically ties it in with the idea of trade routes like you said.
• Turn the science rep into a way to gain unique things besides just tech. The great scientist chance is one of these. Another would be learning military tactics. I could represent this with a small chance every turn for your science rep to "learn military tactics from your allies" and the result being a random unit of yours gets some cool promotion back home. I'd like to do more unique stuff along these lines.

 

[Bheleu21]

hi naf4ever

seems to be a great mod, so I tried it with a friend.

Alas, till the first round we are both out of Sync (simultaneous und turn based modus).
both of us put the us35 and uspatch35a packs in the Game.

Any Idea where the problem might come from?

Any help would be appreciated.

Kind regards
Bheleu

 

[naf4ever]

hi naf4ever

seems to be a great mod, so I tried it with a friend.

Alas, till the first round we are both out of Sync (simultaneous und turn based modus).
both of us put the us35 and uspatch35a packs in the Game.

Any Idea where the problem might come from?

Any help would be appreciated.

Kind regards
Bheleu

Hmmm.. I actually did additional testing with multiplayer for these new changes just to test for out of sync problems and didnt see any.

Describe your problem more, it will help:

1) What new features were in effect the turn it happened? For example did you have a science rep up or the tech exchange bonus going on? Or did you just switch from slavery to another labor civic after having lots of slave specialists?

2) At what point in the turn did it go OOS? Beginning? end? During a certain action like moving a science rep into a town that gave the bonus or right after gaining a slave? If you can post a savegame so i can check it out.

3) how many human players were in the game?

4) What do you mean by "till the first round we are both out of Sync." Do you mean that from turn 1 right when the game started this happened? Thats rather odd... Or was it was fine the first turn with your settler but as soon as you settled and hit the next turn it went OOS?

 

[Nightravn]

Naf- Why don't you add those abilities you want for the Science Rep to the Spy? If you think that is too late in the Game make spys come earlier say with Monarcy or Civil Service. The older Kindoms had just as many Spies as we do now so it make since that they should appear earlier. You could always add a limited ability to your informant and they increase it with the Spy.

 

[naf4ever]

Naf- Why don't you add those abilities you want for the Science Rep to the Spy? If you think that is too late in the Game make spys come earlier say with Monarcy or Civil Service. The older Kindoms had just as many Spies as we do now so it make since that they should appear earlier. You could always add a limited ability to your informant and they increase it with the Spy.

Gimme a few days to look into what i can do to him. I liked his purpose initially but i now see he adds a bit too much micromanagement, especially in the late game. I have some ideas for this though... Will post them as soon as i can get the basics in the code worked out.

Oh and is anyone else having out of sync errors in multiplayer? snv helped me test it out before releasing it and we didnt see any so im surprised that there is. But let me know.

-Naf

EDIT: From the main page: "Further playtesting has revealed the new Science Rep unit isnt living up to expectations. It will be removed next update and placed on hold until a more useful purpose for it can be found. The tech bonus will continue though in a more passive, easy and less micromanaging way. I hope for the next update in a day or two."

 

[naf4ever]

Here's the civic changes i plan on implementing in the next update (all civics retain their original bonuses in addition to these changes unless stated):

Universal Sufferage - no longer enables rushing production with gold. It now gives +100% cottage/village/etc. growth.

Emancipation - now enables rushing with gold and doesnt have the growth bonus anymore since universal sufferage has it. Rushing things always seemed like more a function of a free labor market to me, not the gov. Also this allows police states and monarchies with this civic to rush things as well which seems reasonable.

Caste system - no longer allows unlimited specialists. Instead it gives +1 free specialists.

Free Speech - now allows unlimited artists.

Free Market - now allows unlimited merchants.

Free Religeon - now allows unlimited scientists.

Slavery - has the new slavery function (already implemented last update)

Serfdom - now gives +1 commerce/farm (seems reasonable, the old bonus was too geographic-specific)

Mercantalism - no longer gives +1 free specialists. Now gives +25% gold to all cities. Makes sense and allows for people who are in this civic more money which means they can afford to put more commerce into the culture slider to make people happy which is usually necessary if everyone hates you and trade routes are pointless and hence you've decided switch to mercantalism. I might give a 1 happy face for banks too. Still thinking though.

*****Changes i havent yet decided on*****

Feudalism - increase the amount of free units per/population. At the moment it gives a base of 5 free units + 1 for every 10 pop in your empire. This is rather low and makes it so the commerce bonus from bureacracy is actually more useful for maintaining a large army which seems odd. I might increase it to 1.5 or even 2 free units for every 10 pop

Nationalism - Though useful this one still seems a bit weak to me. Im thinking of creating a new promotion that will give all units some sort of combat bonus when in their own territory as long as they are in this civic.

 

[SwordOfJustice]

Thanks Naf, I'll try the new patch and report back when I can.

As to the specialist problem I deleted that save game unfortunately. But I'll try some more games and let you know if it reoccurs. I tried the specialist assignment button with no effect. I will try and clean reinstall of the mod and clearing the cache too.

Great job with this mod, by the way!


Cheers,
Sword

 

[naf4ever]

Just did a new update. Check out the main page. Lots of civic changes along with some cool new additions. The new tech trading model is back like it was originally but much smoother and not based on the science rep.

Thanks Naf, I'll try the new patch and report back when I can.

As to the specialist problem I deleted that save game unfortunately. But I'll try some more games and let you know if it reoccurs. I tried the specialist assignment button with no effect. I will try and clean reinstall of the mod and clearing the cache too.

Great job with this mod, by the way!


Cheers,
Sword

Thanks. Post a save game if you are still having problems with this.

 

[Aeon221]

Thats a pretty heavy nerf of Caste System, although I have to admit it had it coming...

Perhaps give it a happiness boost?