Modding multiple FPs?

[Don Uittone]

Ok here's the thing:

I've heard nothing but bad info concerning the Hotseat mode in PTW.I don't even own it (PTW) because of that.I'd like to play with my brother so this is the thing i want to know:

We could play at the same civ but I'd control the North America and my brother South America.So we would be as two different civs.Of course all taxes,technologys,diplomacys etc. would be the same.But this is how we played in Civ2 also.BUT,new thing in Civ3 is this MASSIVE corruption. Cause we are only one civ,there would be capital in North America and FP in S-America.But those doesn't cover enough land,especially cause we intended to play El Mencey's 256x256 map.So,is there a way to make a scenario/mod that you could build four Forbidden Palace's,two each for our "different" civs? It's pretty damn important,otherwise the corruption would ruin everything in the later stages of the game.My praises to him who answers.

 

[superslug]

I'm honestly not sure you can mod to have more than 1 FP, but I do know it's possible to mod something that has a similar effect. At least they do in DyP from what I've heard.

 

[Lenvik]

If I got a penny every time I wished I could build more than two palaces... Hope someone has a good answer. Btw, what's DyP?

 

[superslug]

Double your Pleasure, an extremely popular mod. I've never tried it, but there's a number of hard core civvers that play nothing but it.

 

[mazzz]

HHHMMM, coould you just make something basic like temple reduce corrpation in the editor?

 

[superslug]

Possibly, although with my limited experience with the editor I would assume that it would be much easier to just put something that already fights corruption like the Courthose on crack. If it fights like 1 corruption per turn, I guess you could jack it up to like 100. This is just theory of course, so far I've only done maps myself.

 

[Turner]

DyP uses multiple FP like buildings. Forbidden Palace, Summer Palace, Winter Palace. . . that kinda thing. I think there is another small wonder that isn't a palace that does the same thing.

In any event, yes you can mod it to be more than one FP. Just name them different things. It'll work out fine.

 

[superslug]

That would indeed be more effective and efficient than my idea of crackhouses, er, courthouses on crack, since palaces affect regions and not individual cities.

 

[YNCS]

If you want to build multiple FPs, then open up the editor, go to city improvements, call up the FP (remember, it's a small wonder), and copy all the details over (including the Civilopedia entry). You can vary when each new FP lookalike becomes available by changing which tech allows it. Two things to remember:

1. You have to rename every copy (but not the Civilopedia entry), to something like "Supreme Court," "Summer Palace," "Secret Police Headquarters," etc.

2. You won't get a picture in the build queue.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Corruption in the game is caused bij the distance from the capital (or Forbidden Palace) and by the number of cities you own. This second kind of corruption is a real problem if you want to build a large empire.

In the editor under the tab Difficulty levels you can find a setting percentage of optimal cities. If you increase this to 1000% you will have effectively increased the optimal number of cities on a huge map from 32 to 320 (do it for the right difficulty level, the one you're going to play).

In the tab World Sizes the optimal number of cities is mentioned. You can increase this too, if you want to. I wouldn't increase it any higher than about 50-60. Because of the 1000% in the other tab this will effectively be 500-600. (do it for the size of map, you're going to play).

The Forbidden Palace can be build after you own a number of cities greater or equal than half the optimal city number. That's another reason not to increase the optimal city number above 50-60. You want to be able to build it before the game is finished. (this is why you use the percentage 1000% in the other tab)

If you increase the optimal number of cties as described above, then you only need to worry about corruption caused by distance from capital. This kind of corruption can be managed effectively by courthouses and later police stations. They will each halve the corruption present in the city. You should rush buy these in the cities far from the Capitol or Forbidden Palace.

Save your file in the scenario's folder under a name like "multiplayer mod" or something like that.

Good luck modding the game. It's a lot of fun.

 

[Don Uittone]

Ok,let me clarify this: When I set the percentage of optimal cities to 1000% they will never suffer the corruption caused by the number of cities you own right? They only suffer the distance of my capital.

When I set in the World size menu the optimal city number the figure I choose effects only to how many cities I need to have before I'm able to build FP (and other palaces i must mod).

If this is true I must still mod two "extra palaces".I've done all the above but that modding palaces thing I haven't tried yet.Thanks for all the help Roland!

 

[Don Uittone]

YNCS,I tried to mod multiple palaces with your advice.I think i did everything correctly.I put Secret Police under Code of Laws and I put Code of Laws to America's starting technologys.I wasn't able to build it though when I started a game with six cities.There was Palace and FP in two of the cities but the others should be able to build it.
I marked it as Small Wonder,i chose "reduct corruption" option and all the other things which were in original FP.

I also reduced the optimal city number to two so the others should be able to build "Secret Police" cause some of them are no longer optimal citys.

Can someone tell me what's this about?

 

[pdescobar]

@Don: Try removing the FP from the one city and see if it is buildable; if not, there's a problem regarding the change of OCN. If you make a custom map, sometimes the game goes by the Standard World size settings instead of the size you expect it to use.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Originally posted by Don Uittone
Ok,let me clarify this: When I set the percentage of optimal cities to 1000% they will never suffer the corruption caused by the number of cities you own right? They only suffer the distance of my capital.

When I set in the World size menu the optimal city number the figure I choose effects only to how many cities I need to have before I'm able to build FP (and other palaces i must mod).

If this is true I must still mod two "extra palaces".I've done all the above but that modding palaces thing I haven't tried yet.Thanks for all the help Roland!

No, not exactly. Sorry, I should have been more clear. Corruption is one of the most difficult and important aspects of the game. Sit back and expect a long read.
If you want to read exactly how corruption is calculated, you should read this thread:

link to corruption formula

I'll have to warn you though, that you have to know something about mathematics, if you want to understand the formula correctly

Some of the more interesting conssequences of this formula:
1) By building courthouses and police stations you can reduce corruption caused by distance from capital to an acceptable level.
2) If you've build above a certain number of cities, each further city will be 95% corrupt even if you build courthouses and police stations, because of the corruption caused by the number of cities.

So you want to use the editor to reduce the corruption caused by the number of cities. How does this kind of corruption work?
It numbers the cities by distance to the Palace or Forbidden Palace (further away higher number). So the city containing the palace and the city containing the Forbidden Palace will get number 1. The closest city to these 2 cities will get number 2. The next closest 3. If you go above a certain number (Optimal Number of Cities=OCN), then corruption caused by number of cities will explode and soon nothing can be done about it.

The solution is clear. You go into the editor and raise the OCN-number. The problem is that the game is hardcoded so that it will allow you to build a Forbidden Palace after you have build a number of cities equal or greater than half the OCN number set in the editor.

So you can't just go into the World Sizes tab of the editor and raise the OCN-number to 999. Because then you can only build the Forbidden Palace after 500 cities (ugh). And it's a nice building if you want to play such a game with your brother.

But the game uses the OCN set in the World Sizes tab to determine when you can build the forbidden palace but calculates the actual ingame OCN in a different way. It does this by multiplying the OCN set in the World Sizes tab by the percentage of optimal cities in the Difficulty Levels tab.

So if you set the OCN in the World Sizes tab at 50 and the percentage of optimal cities in the Difficulty Levels tab at 1000%, then you will be able to build the Forbidden Palace after 25 cities and the effective OCN ingame will be 1000% of 50=500.

So after you've build more than 500 cities, the corruption caused by number of cities will become rampant again. The game only allows 512 cities to be build (by you and computer opponents together), so this should be no problem. There is a utilty on this site that allows you to build more than 512 cities, but I don't think you'll need it, escept when you play at gigantic custom made maps (much larger than huge size).

I hope this makes it clear, because I don't think I can explain it any better. Good luck editing (be sure to use the right difficulty setting and world size seting).

 

[Don Uittone]

Thanks again Now you explained it more specificly (yea right it was your fault I didn't understand the first time )

And for your remark to use right difficulty and world size setting i could set all difficulties the same custom rules so I don't have to worry about that.

pdescobar: I'll do what you said,i let you know how it went.

EDIT: I created 24 citys to America and i put 30 as optimal city number so after 15 citys i should had been able to build the FP and my own created Winter Palace and Secret Police.But i couldn't.I didn't saw any of those city improvements in the list where you pick what you start to builld.And naturally yes I removed the FP so i should be ABLE TO BUILD IT.Damn!

I set these rules: OCN in World Size (to all sizes): 30 OCN in Difficulty levels (to all levels): 1000

So what I've told I should be able to build FP after 15 cities and the corruption caused by the number of cities would occur after 300 cities.

What's wrong? Why can't i build even FP not to mention my own improvements?

 

[KatieG]

I'm not able to check at this moment, but does the Forbidden Palace require a certain technology you don't have yet?
--Katie G.

 

[Don Uittone]

No,it shouldn't acquire any advances.

 

[Roland Johansen]

The things I posted here about the difficulty levels percentage and the OCN number in the editor is true in PTW 1.21f. I'm sure it will be true in earlier versions. I've used it in CivIII 1.29f too.
I just tested it again with the editor in Debug mode. It works.
If you press F1 in the editor screen you get a help screen. It also tells you that the setting reduces corruption that is used by the Forbidden Palace needs halve the OCN number of cities.

Maybe something went wrong with adding the multiple forbidden palaces. I'm not an expert with the editor but I know a lot of things can go wrong, especially the first time you try things.

Try again?

You could download the Double Your Pleasure mod, where they added multiple palaces too. See if you can copy what they did.

In the Creation and Custimization part of this site are a lot of experts that will be willing to help you if you ask them a specific question.

Good luck