Modding Q&A

[SayHayKid]

The AI can only choose 1 flag at the time. So when it evaluates what to build, it will do so based on the stats of that flag. Example: The Numidian Merc is flagged as both Offense and Def. If the AI has access to Swordsmen, it will build far less Offensive NMs (it will still build some though because the NM has superior def value just like the AI would build Offensive Mech Inf alongside Tanks). The AI can not fluidly switch roles and thus can never make as good use of versatile units like the human player can. Defensive NMs will never be repurposed for Offense (though Def flagged units will sometimes attack to finish off easy kills). This rigidity hurts the most with multirole fighters because the AI would never make use of the offense stats to intercept or make use of the bombard stat to bomb.

Are the worker actions dependent on the terraform flag? If I give the unit both the settler and terraform flags, plus ALL of the worker actions including Build City, will the unit only build a city if it chose the settler flag at creation? And only do the other traditional worker actions if it chose terraform at creation?

 

[Predator145]

Are the worker actions dependent on the terraform flag? If I give the unit both the settler and terraform flags, plus ALL of the worker actions including Build City, will the unit only build a city if it chose the settler flag at creation? And only do the other traditional worker actions if it chose terraform at creation?

The AI will either build your colonist as a Settler Flag or a Worker Flag unit. The ones will the settler flag will behave exactly like a stock game settler regardless of worker tasks you give it. And the ones with the worker flag will never build cities.

If you have an SW auto producing colonists the AI will choose between the 2 flags to assign. I don't know the odds of that though. It could either be equally divided or based on what it needs more that the time.

 

[tjs282]

Btw, do You have any idea about question one post above one You responded to?

Nothing definite, no.

I can say for sure that I have never captured an SW in an AI town while playing unmodded C3C. But all SWs in unmodded C3C provide Culture, so I don't know if it's possible to capture a non-Cultural SW (though also not sure if the AI would even bother building such an SW).

BUT

While play-testing @haluu's Tides of Crimson fantasy mod, I/we discovered that there is definitely a wrinkle regarding Gov-specific SWs, which can be captured under certain circumstances, even if they produce Culture, and the conquering Civ has already built that SW itself. As far as we can tell, it works like this:

CivA and CivB both choose Gov1, and build Gov1's SW in TownA and TownB, respectively.

Later, CivB switches to Gov2, resulting in the loss of the Gov1 SW's effect(s) in TownB, and its 'disappearance' from the city-view. However, the SW is actually still there.

In the meantime, CivA stays in Gov1, and later captures TownB. Since CivB CivA has not switched Govs, the Gov1-SW built by CivA CivB 'reappears' in TownB, and reactivates.

This can be repeated across the map, as CivA captures Towns C, D, E, F... -- resulting in CivA owning 2 (or more!) copies of the Gov1-SW.

In theory this should also apply with respect to the Communism-specific SPHQ in unmodded C3C -- but I don't remember ever having seen anyone reporting this bug(?) -- likely because to see it happening in-game would require the human player to go Commie and build their SPHQ in the first place...

Edited to finish editing the text as I'd intended (posting from my phone makes copy-pasting / editing a pain...)

 

[CivFan94]

@tjs282

Thank You! I always appreciate your detailed answers.

 

[Nathiri]

Nothing definite, no.

I can say for sure that I have never captured an SW in an AI town while playing unmodded C3C. But all SWs in unmodded C3C provide Culture, so I don't know if it's possible to capture a non-Cultural SW (though also not sure if the AI would even bother building such an SW).

BUT

While play-testing @haluu's Tides of Crimson fantasy mod, I/we discovered that there is definitely a wrinkle regarding Gov-specific SWs, which can be captured under certain circumstances, even if they produce Culture, and the conquering Civ has already built that SW itself. As far as we can tell, it works like this:

CivA and CivB both choose Gov1, and build Gov1's SW in TownA and TownB, respectively.

Later, CivB switches to Gov2, resulting in the loss of the Gov1 SW's effect(s) in TownB, and its 'disappearance' from the city-view. However, the SW is actually still there.

In the meantime, CivA stays in Gov1, and later captures TownB. Since CivB has not switched Govs, the Gov1-SW built by CivA 'reappears', and reactivates.

This can be repeated across the map, as CivA captures Towns C, D, E, F... -- resulting in CivA owning 2 (or more!) copies of the Gov1-SW.

In theory this should also apply with respect to the Communism-specific SPHQ in unmodded C3C -- but I don't remember ever having seen anyone reporting this bug(?) -- likely because to see it happening in-game would require the human player to go Commie and build their SPHQ in the first place...

You are correct. Gov Obsoleting works interestingly. I used Gov obsolete improvements and wonders in my mod. It also had the effect of still providing maintenance costs. I found I could make Gov-specific benefits that then had the negative effect of always costing money until the rest of the game. If the effect was strong enough, then I figured it was worth having that con for that potentially short-term benefit.

 

[Theov]

You are correct. Gov Obsoleting works interestingly. I used Gov obsolete improvements and wonders in my mod. It also had the effect of still providing maintenance costs. I found I could make Gov-specific benefits that then had the negative effect of always costing money until the rest of the game. If the effect was strong enough, then I figured it was worth having that con for that potentially short-term benefit.

I don't understand.
What was costing you money?

 

[Nathiri]

I don't understand.
What was costing you money?

Building maintenance. When you set a government on an improvement/wonder, then switch from that government, the benefits disappear, but the maintenance costs will still remain in effect. If you switch back into the government then the benefits reappear for any civ. It is at this point, if its an improvement, that it should be sold.

 

[SayHayKid]

Building maintenance. When you set a government on an improvement/wonder, then switch from that government, the benefits disappear, but the maintenance costs will still remain in effect. If you switch back into the government then the benefits reappear for any civ. It is at this point, if its an improvement, that it should be sold.

I am adding government specific improvements and small wonders. Hmmm....maybe I'll make the gov't improvements maintenance free.

 

[Theov]

Not the same but similarly - I was playing as the Chinese (Asian) and Captured the Aztec (American) Temple of the Sun - giving Sacrificial Altars in all cities. I shouldn't be able to build this, but when captured it contintued to give me SAs.

Anyway - I have some Gov-small wonders in my mod - but I haven't found out how they work when captured. For example - do I get another civs benefit when I capture their Gov-SW, even when I already buillt one myself.
I'll test this.
I'm pretty sure I can't get the benefits when I'm not in the right Gov.

Also - why do captured wonders not continue to be Tourist Attractions? That feature disappears when captured? That seems odd.

 

[timerover51]

Between this thread and the CCM 2 Epic Mod thread, this is a LOT of very good information being put out.

 

[tjs282]

Not the same but similarly - I was playing as the Chinese (Asian) and Captured the Aztec (American) Temple of the Sun - giving Sacrificial Altars in all cities. I shouldn't be able to build this, but when captured it contintued to give me SAs.

Yeah, GWs tied only to Culture- or Civ-specific techs (as presumably in this case?) can still be captured by other tribes/ Culture-groups. CCM makes extensive use of this, e.g. for the "WorldReligionX" wonders.

If you want to ensure that the TotS-benefits can't be obtained by any other Civ, then you'd need to e.g. make it dependent on a Government(-tech) that's only available to the (Meso)American Civs.

 

[Theov]

Yeah, GWs tied only to Culture- or Civ-specific techs (as presumably in this case?) can still be captured by other tribes/ Culture-groups. CCM makes extensive use of this, e.g. for the "WorldReligionX" wonders.

If you want to ensure that the TotS-benefits can't be obtained by any other Civ, then you'd need to e.g. make it dependent on a Government(-tech) that's only available to the (Meso)American Civs.

Yes, it was indeed attached to the 'American' tech that the Culture Group starts with. (every culture group has a small wonder).
Now, I captured that wonder, but still got the benefits of the Sacrificial Altar.

Then, I went to check and saw that the Dutch city of Den Hague had the Government-specific small wonder for Theocracy (I'm not in that Gov) and took the city to test it out. The Gov Specific Small Wonder disappeared.
Just like the Republican Circus Maximus disappeared when I switched to another Gov.

I would love the Gov Small Wonders to continue to exist as tourist attractions and culture beacons though.

 

[ChallahAtYaGirl]

Hi folks.

So I'm having a problem with an older version of DYP Rise & Rule. It's locking up every time a civilization gets eliminated. I can't figure out why. I'm certain it's not the infamous "settler on a boat" bug because I did some sandboxing and tested a first-turn knockout and it still locked up. It doesn't give me an error message and I know it's not just taking a long time to think through it because I let it sit while I made dinner, and it didn't go anywhere. It just spins the drive up all the way, like it's thinking it's hardest. It makes me think maybe it's stuck in a loop? I can't imagine how though.

I thought to check the Script file, I don't see any difference in the relevant text about a civ getting eliminated as compared to how it appears in the regular C3C Script file (which, to be clear, regular C3C works just fine, I tested that too).

I'm really puzzled y'all! Can you offer any kind of help?

EDIT: To be clear it's not the ancient DYP version that comes with Civ3, I think I downloaded it from here maybe 10-12 years ago?

 

[Predator145]

Can you capture city improvements that you don't have the tech for? Aqueducts and Hospitals are indestructible and if I'm not mistake, unsellable. But do they stay even if you don't have Construction or Sanitation?

 

[tjs282]

Hospitals are definitely capturable before Sanitation is known, so I would assume the same applies to Ducts/Construction.

(That is, town-improvements with the "Allows settlement size X" flag are capturable without knowing their prerequisite tech)

While the captured improvements will certainly start adding to the conquering Civ's improvement-maintenance costs, I'm not sure offhand whether the capturing Civ actually gets the benefit of that improvement (i.e. town-growth beyond the hardcoded Pop-cap) before they know the tech.

(Because usually I'll be setting such towns to net-zero FPT, and building foreign Settlers and Workers out of them)

 

[Predator145]

I'm pretty sure the civ will benefit from the growth ability. Because it can't build those captured improvements anymore, not being able to sell the existing ones. And what about the other non growth improvements? Can they survive to be captured despite not having the techs for them? I usually raze and replace early game so I don't know.

 

[q250]

i give an army unit prerequisete tech but still have ability to build it. why? also how make all units tradable? how to change resource spawn amount to be higher, like to make 20-30 coal on map, not one per civ?

 

[Predator145]

i give an army unit prerequisete tech but still have ability to build it. why?

Armies can only be trained from a city with a small wonder/wonder with the box "armies without leader" checked. I'm not sure if regular improvements work with that box.

 

[q250]

Armies can only be trained from a city with a small wonder/wonder with the box "armies without leader" checked. I'm not sure if regular improvements work with that box.

i put leader unit in one sity, he has ability to build army, regardless of tech.

 

[tjs282]

Because Leaders don't "build" Armies as such (using shields), nor do they "upgrade" to Armies, they are directly converted. So (I guess) they're not subject to the same constraints that a 'normal' unit is.

Regarding your other questions...

also how make all units tradable?

Not possible. Only one unit can be set as the tradeable unit in the Editor.

But if you have the patience to do so, you could set the tradeable unit as the base of an upgrade-chain; that way, as more advanced units are unlocked, it's as if you would be trading a different unit each time.

And by setting intermediate steps in that chain as only buildable by specific Civs, you could even have that chain produce a different unit-line for each Civ in the game.

how to change resource spawn amount to be higher, like to make 20-30 coal on map, not one per civ?

For Strategic and Luxury resources, you can increase the "Appearance Ratio", which will put more copies of that resource on the map per Civ. But on a randomised map, I believe this may be at the "expense" of getting fewer Bonus resources in total, since only a limited percentage of tiles (5%?) can/ will be assigned as resource-tiles by the map-generator.