Modern navy issues

[SlayerofDeitys]

I think I agree with almost everything you said Half Fast. My ideas might differ on little things here or there though; for example a submarine should definitely be able to sink a destroyer.

Although a ship with an ASW platform should have a bonus against them, if a submarines only mission was to sink a destroyer, in a battle group or not, the destroyer is most likely dead and the other ships MAY find and destroy him afterwards, ASW platform or no. If your talking about a Russian Oscar II, you can kiss the entire battle groups *** goodbye.

I like the idea of making ASW a separate tech and as I have said in the Realism mod thread (which seems to be dead now) the tech could also upon up a new construction an IUSS site. The site would peel back a greater amount of FOW and reveal any naval unit in a certain area.

Alternatively you could make it so that IUSS is a national wonder and then you can have work boats "build" (lay down) the cables in ocean tiles. On a side note I can tell you exactly what kind of speeds you are looking at with subs nuke and non nuke, but I don't think compromising national security is worth making civ4 a little more realistic.

 

[Half Fast]

I just looked over this forum and noticed that I misspelled "Iowa", twice. Please don't comment I am already ashamed of myself.

 

[Half Fast]

SlayerofDeities I like your great wonder idea. You apparently know much more about modern ASW than me. My references on the subject are old and give me little idea of which would win -nuke sub or ASW cruiser. ASW helis seem like they could destroy enemy subs before they reach the fleet, but I'm not so sure about wether or not they could find it all of the time.
I know that just before the Soviet Union collapsed Russia had what was supposed to be the deepest diving and the fastest sub in the world-the Alpha class. It's speed was said to be 42 knots and it could dive 2700 feet. It ammused me that at that time anti-sub torpedoes could operate at 2800 feet. I think the rule of thumb for stats of US
warships is that its way more than they say it is.
Right now I don't see how a sub could survive if it was found but I know measures have been taken by both US and Russia to make subs almost "stealth". For example; Russian subs have been using rubber to absorb sound from the engines, and the US subs are said to be silent at low speeds and are shaped to deflect sonar the way stealth fighters deflect radar.
Hopefully we can come up with some realistic sub vs. destoyer combat odds for someone to mod into the game. Any recent info that anyone has that isn't to secretive would much appreciated. I might just learn to mod it myself.
As for the old era of warship I think the odds of a destroyer winning could be pretty high. The German "wolf packs" were successful against cargo ships but the battle against U-boats was clearly won. To give you an idea some 700 U-boats were sunk of the 1,080 that were built during ww2. Japan and the US also suffered high losses.

 

[Runriot]

Half fast and Slayer of deities:

I liek the way you guys are thinking
Here is my response to a couple points:

According to FAS.org, the best place for military info, Nimitz class carriers top 30 knots, or 35 mph (actual is classified)

Boomer subs top 30 knots about 35mph (actual is classified)

Fast attacks top 32 knots (actual is classified)

ARLEIGH BURKE-class AEGIS 31 knots 36 mph

SPRUANCE-class Destroyers 33 Knots 39mph

I cant seem to find any info on the marine helo carriers, which are based of the WWII Essex class carriers, and which the Britts call Pocket carriers. But they hold Harrier jump jets and several classes of helos.

I like the ASW as a tech, and SOSUS nets would be cool, but alittle out of scope in this game...maybe

 

[Half Fast]

Thanks for reminding me about harrier jump jets. I wanted to start a thread on that tonight. I know this doesn't belong here just sayin thanx thats all.