Modern warfare
- Thread starter Lynx
- Start date
Moderator Action: Which is cutting it close to spam with 1-liners and sometimes inflamatory posts. Nothing to be proud about. Please use more content in your posts. Anymore spam, and you'll have 3 days without a post.
On second thought, seeing that you spammed in other forums as well, I am giving you 3 days right now AND your postcount is reduced by 80 posts.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
Lynx, you posted this in strategy articles too. Why did you post the same htread twice? Its good, but you dont need to have two of them.
Naval Freak
Warlord
I totally agree with lynx's 1st post, but before i land my army i either:
1)saturation bomb/bombard A.I. land
2)nuke A.I. land
3)combination of 1+2
and the its MA spearhead(10-20) then tank rush(40-60), w/ air support, battleship support, and artillery support; with possibly some SLBMs.
1)saturation bomb/bombard A.I. land
2)nuke A.I. land
3)combination of 1+2
and the its MA spearhead(10-20) then tank rush(40-60), w/ air support, battleship support, and artillery support; with possibly some SLBMs.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
SLBM's? what are those? do you mean ICBM's?
tomart109
Perspicacious
i believe SLBM stands for Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile.
Naval Freak
Warlord
It is Submarine Lauched Ballistic Missile
The rest are:
ICBM InterContinental " "
IRBM Intermediate Range " "
ALBM Air Launched " "
The rest are:
ICBM InterContinental " "
IRBM Intermediate Range " "
ALBM Air Launched " "
I prefer to get into the enemy's countrysid ewith Cav (mounted, armour, anything that moves quick) and run roughshod over resources troops and workers. Take those workes and use them to fortify key positions. Bombard the cities from the land, sea, and air. As you weaken a unitkill it until the city has only one unit - then your bombardment will be more effective against the population. Also use that roaving force to quickly take down smaller cities, the enemy will have less money less population and they will also lose out on the ease of movement - your RR and roads don't work for them. I then move in settlers to those one and two population cities to add loyalist and keepthem from flipping. Also by quikly building temples and libraries, you culture in that city will grow and further hinder the enemy's movement.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
thanks, i was wondering what that meant. Speaking of ICBM's I just played a game where i was the americans and t was into year 150 of WWIII. I was the only nuclear power in the world with 50 tacticals and 100 ICBM's. Korea drops a ICBM on me, i drop 64 ICBM's on korea...
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
amphibious landings can be really irritating, since once your guys hit the beach, you are going to have some serious problems breaching their lines.
I agree with that sarevok. i get banned right before i go to europe, and i truly respect them for cutting more than 100 of my posts when they said 80 
. nevermind that, i just finished my chinese game where i launched a cross-continental blitzkreig. i think ill write an article on it sooner than later.
. nevermind that, i just finished my chinese game where i launched a cross-continental blitzkreig. i think ill write an article on it sooner than later.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
I know how you feel lynx. i told the moderator that, but they could care less. Either way, I am curios to see what that strategy is.
peace_frog
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
- Messages
- 40
I think these strategies are aimed more at graphics and fun than efficiency. This is a game, so fun is the object, but they wont work beyond warlord. Once you get to higher levels you don't have the luxury of drastically outnumbering your opponent or having huge tech leads. You have to win wars against armies twice your size and equally or more advanced. Sadly it is all a matter of statistics. There are numerous threads in here that explain them far better than I could. I recomend going to the war academy.
A few pointers.
1. Paratroopers are a joke. They cost 100 shields and have an A/D/M of 6/8/1. In the same period, Mech Infantry costs 110 shields and has an A/D/M of 12/18/2. Modern Armor costs 120 shields and as an A/D/M of 24/16/3. It doesn't take calculus to see all you should build in the modern error is MA. (granted Mech Infantry are marginally cheaper and better at defense but the MA's huge advantage in movement and offense makes it the only time in civ that one unit is all you need) According to the combat calculator (http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html) If MA attacks a fortified Paratrooper it will win 92% of the time. If a Paratrooper attacks a fortified modern Armor it will lose 96% of the time. Even if the paratrooper is fortified on a mountain MA will win 65%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a paratrooper's drop radius is only like 4 squares. That means the modern armor could get to wherever you drop the paratrooper in two turns (even if the drop radius is 6 squares).
2. Use defensive units for defense, offensive units for offense.
In the very first example Lynx posted, he referenced attacking riflemen with riflemen. Riflemen are defensive units. They should not be used to attack other defensive units. I realize you probably know that Lynx but the reference could confuse others. A rifleman attacking a fortified rifleman of the same strength will lose 85% of the time. I would only use them to finish off a wounded offensive unit (i.e longbowman or cavalry). I agree with the fact that Calvary are also not ideal against rifleman. A veteran cavalry only beats a fortified veteran rifleman 34% of the time. Calvary are only effective in large numbers. Half will retreat before dying so you can use them another day.
3. Use artillery to get the odds in your favor
The secret of even warfare (cavalry vs rifleman or tank vs infantry) is artillery. I know it is slow and sometimes boring, but if you can knock two hitpoints off of a fortified veteran rifleman, a veteran cavalry will now win 70% of the time (more than twice as often.) The case is even greater when attacking a city. a city adds something like 50% to the defender. So a veteran cavalry will only win 20% vs a fortified veteran rifleman in a city. But if artillery knocks off two hitpoints the cavalry wins 57%, and 70% of the time if 3 points are knocked off. If the artillery kills enough citizens to knock the city back to town status, Calvary wins 70% vs a 2 hit point rifleman and over 80% vs a 1 hit point rifleman. You need at least 20 pieces of artillery to do this, 50 to 80 works much better. (btw all these odds assume the defender is not on a hill, mountain or acrosss a river)
Artillery is even more effective as defense, especially when combined with railroads. Initiate your war, maybe take one or two cities and then sit back and wait for the counter assault. The AI will throw everything it has into your territory. Make sure your artillery is on your RR and zip it to where you need it to cut down all the AI's troops to 1 or two hit points. Send your cavalry/MA out to wipe out the entire wounded force (veteran cavalry will beat a 1 hitpoint unfortified tank 80% of the time) And riflemen are great against 1 hitpoint cavalry or bowmen. In two turns you will wipe out the majority of the AI's military while sustaining almost no losses. Then march in and do as you please. I find this is less time consuming than bringing the artillery into enemy territory at 1 square per turn. After this you will have the number advantages even on medium level games so you don't need artillery necessarily. I would only use artillery for cities and metropolis once I wiped out the AI's military. Hell you could even use paratroopers at this point.
I know this works up to monarch. AI might get smarter above there.
A few pointers.
1. Paratroopers are a joke. They cost 100 shields and have an A/D/M of 6/8/1. In the same period, Mech Infantry costs 110 shields and has an A/D/M of 12/18/2. Modern Armor costs 120 shields and as an A/D/M of 24/16/3. It doesn't take calculus to see all you should build in the modern error is MA. (granted Mech Infantry are marginally cheaper and better at defense but the MA's huge advantage in movement and offense makes it the only time in civ that one unit is all you need) According to the combat calculator (http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html) If MA attacks a fortified Paratrooper it will win 92% of the time. If a Paratrooper attacks a fortified modern Armor it will lose 96% of the time. Even if the paratrooper is fortified on a mountain MA will win 65%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a paratrooper's drop radius is only like 4 squares. That means the modern armor could get to wherever you drop the paratrooper in two turns (even if the drop radius is 6 squares).
2. Use defensive units for defense, offensive units for offense.
In the very first example Lynx posted, he referenced attacking riflemen with riflemen. Riflemen are defensive units. They should not be used to attack other defensive units. I realize you probably know that Lynx but the reference could confuse others. A rifleman attacking a fortified rifleman of the same strength will lose 85% of the time. I would only use them to finish off a wounded offensive unit (i.e longbowman or cavalry). I agree with the fact that Calvary are also not ideal against rifleman. A veteran cavalry only beats a fortified veteran rifleman 34% of the time. Calvary are only effective in large numbers. Half will retreat before dying so you can use them another day.
3. Use artillery to get the odds in your favor
The secret of even warfare (cavalry vs rifleman or tank vs infantry) is artillery. I know it is slow and sometimes boring, but if you can knock two hitpoints off of a fortified veteran rifleman, a veteran cavalry will now win 70% of the time (more than twice as often.) The case is even greater when attacking a city. a city adds something like 50% to the defender. So a veteran cavalry will only win 20% vs a fortified veteran rifleman in a city. But if artillery knocks off two hitpoints the cavalry wins 57%, and 70% of the time if 3 points are knocked off. If the artillery kills enough citizens to knock the city back to town status, Calvary wins 70% vs a 2 hit point rifleman and over 80% vs a 1 hit point rifleman. You need at least 20 pieces of artillery to do this, 50 to 80 works much better. (btw all these odds assume the defender is not on a hill, mountain or acrosss a river)
Artillery is even more effective as defense, especially when combined with railroads. Initiate your war, maybe take one or two cities and then sit back and wait for the counter assault. The AI will throw everything it has into your territory. Make sure your artillery is on your RR and zip it to where you need it to cut down all the AI's troops to 1 or two hit points. Send your cavalry/MA out to wipe out the entire wounded force (veteran cavalry will beat a 1 hitpoint unfortified tank 80% of the time) And riflemen are great against 1 hitpoint cavalry or bowmen. In two turns you will wipe out the majority of the AI's military while sustaining almost no losses. Then march in and do as you please. I find this is less time consuming than bringing the artillery into enemy territory at 1 square per turn. After this you will have the number advantages even on medium level games so you don't need artillery necessarily. I would only use artillery for cities and metropolis once I wiped out the AI's military. Hell you could even use paratroopers at this point.
I know this works up to monarch. AI might get smarter above there.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
1. the paratrooper radius is more like 6 squares, and you need a scout in order to find weaknesses. you can hit them behind their lines, but MA do make the paratrooper a bit less effective or usefull.
2. lynx specifically said that those wars are suicide, but once you pound a position with artillery, then you overrun it with riflemen who takee and defend the new lines they have claimed.
3. Lynx also said specifically that artillery are to be used for offense and that they are the key to breaking enemy lines. I myself use at least 120 pieces of artillery in ww1-2 style wars. In addition attacks on moving troops is a good idea and if Lynx didnt already mention it, then I will. You attack assault forces headed for your lines to cause as much damage to them before they attack. If you kill them, good. If not, thewn you at least have done damage, and your defense will take care of the rest. both lynx and I play diety, so we know full well how to fight wars.
2. lynx specifically said that those wars are suicide, but once you pound a position with artillery, then you overrun it with riflemen who takee and defend the new lines they have claimed.
3. Lynx also said specifically that artillery are to be used for offense and that they are the key to breaking enemy lines. I myself use at least 120 pieces of artillery in ww1-2 style wars. In addition attacks on moving troops is a good idea and if Lynx didnt already mention it, then I will. You attack assault forces headed for your lines to cause as much damage to them before they attack. If you kill them, good. If not, thewn you at least have done damage, and your defense will take care of the rest. both lynx and I play diety, so we know full well how to fight wars.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
lynx, where is your article? it should be up soon right?
Im not done with it, i was actually playing some Baldur's Gate and warcraft III (dont you remember, we just played online earlier today!) so i have not played attention to civ3. I beat BG in 3 days at about 6 hours of game time (for a 50-100 hour game...HOLY SH*T!!!) it might come soon though...if i care enough to write it up.
What's with stealth bombers in PTW? Either I am very unluckly or they fail to perform 9 times out of ten. My bombers seem to do much better. Is ther some nuance I'm missing on these units?
[GoD]Toxic
Chieftain
If we are talking overseas assults then it is a must to have at least 4 carriers with you fully loaded with bombers or s-bombers. They can really damage the infastructure and afterwards support your invading force 
