Modular Fall from Heaven

[MagisterCultuum]

It isn't normally like that in FfH, but xienwolf made it that way if you select the "Cheater AI" option. (I haven't actually downloaded the mod so I don't know if that is the same option as "no AI building requirements" or not.)


Personally I still don't like the idea of making the AI cheat so much to get ahead. I think that all buildings in the game should have bonuses (and maybe penalties) of their own, so the AI would build them for their own sake and so that the players can get more satisfaction out of building them too.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I was just wondering...I believe that the fact that Barbatos is a world unit it why it spawns only one of him. Could you make the other units spawned on unique features be world units too (possibly with limits higher than 1) and still be able to create more of them through summoning spells? I think you could. Assuming that none of these spawns are buildable or are spawned by multiple improvements this could be a good way to make the improvements dangerous, but not too dangerous. I think I may make Air Elementals world units and let the Maelstrom spawn a couple of them, but leave them as Air III summons too.

 

[xienwolf]

There isn't an option to allow the AI to cheat, I use the "No Building Requirements Option" and hide it so you cannot turn it off (if you want to disable this aspect you delete the Cheater Module). It is actually done by allowing you to build units which are exact duplicates of the higher Tier Magic users by using a building that requires the NEVER technology. Since nobody can ever get this technology, but the AI don't actually need the building, it allows them to directly build units that the player can never access


Glad to hear they were building Wizards, so far most people see them focusing pretty heavy on Summoning.

I'll be changing Fireballs & Meteors eventually I am pretty sure. But I wanted to see what other abilities I handed out before I did so. I am not sure if I will go with 0 visibility or with "cannot explore map" tag like I placed on some of my own summons.

You are correct, Barbatos is a world unit, thus only 1 ever spawns. I am contemplating making the other Unique Improvements spawn Unique Units as well, but I haven't decided on having a World Limit, or a Player Limit yet (one limits how many can EVER spawn, meaning it runs out eventually. The other limits how many can be spawned at a time. Meaning if you keep it alive then no more spawn, but the moment it dies more are available).

If I go with World Unit, then I really ought to make them immobile so that they guard their feature. And I don't like the idea of doing that too excessively, so I am thinking that I might make them a 1 or 2 unit Player limit so that they are out there somewhere, and can pop up and harrass you at any time through the entire game (but you will never suffer waves of them at a time).

If I stick with summoned units and assign a limit, then I am pretty sure it will interfere with summoning them, but possibly not, haven't tested that one yet.

Personally, I love making the Maelstrom spawn Sea Serpents. It puts some danger back into the waters I ought to make it spawn the Black Wind though, and change it from World Unit to Player Limit (thus making it essentially an Immortal)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think that Maelstrom should spawn sea serpents or ships, but lighting and air elementals make sense since it is a big storm

I wouldn't be opposed to adding more aquatic unique features though, which could spawn dangerous creatures. It might also be good to have a new unique improvement (similar to a pirates cove) spawn the Sailors Dirge.




I just tested and having units be world units does not limit the number you can summon; it does however mean that everyone will be notified whenever you summon one.

 

[xienwolf]

Wonder if that same notice applies to World Units from features. I would imagine so...

Also, if they summon before the feature hits the limit you set then they will be taking up some of the limited slots.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm pretty sure you already get notices about the creation of Barbatos, so, yes, it does.

Yeah, but features tend to spawn their units very early, probably way too soon to get a summoner, much less one able to summon top tier summons (although that migth be easier with your cheater module)

 

[xienwolf]

Aye, so far the rate does seem to be pretty steep overall. But I was picturing setting both a Player Limit and a World Limit. Set something like a Player Limit = 5, World Limit = 100. Then you can have 5 out at a time, but once you have killed 100 they stop spawning completely.

 

[Zifnab]

I don't think that Maelstrom should spawn sea serpents or ships, but lighting and air elementals make sense since it is a big storm

I wouldn't be opposed to adding more aquatic unique features though, which could spawn dangerous creatures. It might also be good to have a new unique improvement (similar to a pirates cove) spawn the Sailors Dirge.




I just tested and having units be world units does not limit the number you can summon; it does however mean that everyone will be notified whenever you summon one.

Is there any way to make the spawned units have the summoned promotion? If the barbarians have the summoner trait, this could let the general area around the feature be dangerous, but you wouldn't have the problem of hordes of elementals conquering many civilizations.

 

[xienwolf]

Sadly no, you can only limit the duration of the unit if it actually goes through the process of BEING summoned. So I would have to station an immobile summoner on the tile (Barbatos all over again) to accomplish that.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

There is no summoned promotion, duration is handled directly now. You could give the units limited duration, but that would require significant python or SDK changes; you can't do it in a modular modmod.

 

[Shakiko]

Sorry to disturb all that technical stuff I don't understand, just wanted to report that you can build lumbermills in Forest, but can't build those in Ancient forests.
Normally that would be okay, but Forests actually upgrade in time to Ancient Forest w/o losing the lumbermills improvement, thus it seems inconsistant.


On another note:
Does Earth mana improve the chance to get all those other resources that farms, pastures etc, can discover, too ?
Or does it still just work for copper, iron etc. ?


Thanks for providing this modular stuff, especially the summons
(and showing a non-computergeek a way to keep any personal gameplaychanges even when another patch comes out )

 

[xienwolf]

I'll fix the lumbermills (and probably some others that I missed) to work in AFs.

Unfortunately Earth Mana increases the chances for all of them (I was kinda hoping nobody would think to ask that again).

And thanks for calling me a computergeek (Seriously though, thanks for feedback for the summons, I've been wondering if anyone is using them at all)

 

[Elm]

Anything to be wary of when doing modular loading? I turned it on, created a module for options, and one for making Freaks and Drowns never expire, and used a few of your modules (not the *new* magic one or the changed improvement ones) and started a game as the Sidar. The game crashes every so often immediately after clicking the turn button. I always play with the New seed option, since that usually helps with crashes recurring.

At first I thought it might be a problem with spawning things on features, since one of the spawns is the Drown, and I had redefined that in a module, but that feature is not on the map I am using.

I didn't have the patience to remove modules one by one, recreate maps, and see if the problem went away (since it is random anyway). It is also my first time with patch "k" as well.

Anyway, any things to watch for with modular loading in general?

 

[hbar]

The game crashes every so often immediately after clicking the turn button. I always play with the New seed option, since that usually helps with crashes recurring.

I was having the same problems last night.

I didn't have the patience to remove modules one by one

I removed a few at once (I think it was dimensional summons, new summons, cheater AI and dangerous features, sorry I can't remember exactly) and I still got crashes. Again, not repeatable, not tied to research or production.

Also, the features spawning creatures - the fruit of Yggdrasil got a little ridiculous. 10+ str 9 guardian vines by turn 150!?! Thank god they're immobile...

 

[xienwolf]

Yeah, I was willing to go with strong ones on Yggdrassil because they can't move. But I think that this weekend I will be completely overhauling that particular module. If not with completely new units then at the least I will limit it to 2 units out at a time per feature.

Unfortunately I do not know what might be causing crashes Upset to hear that any are happening as half the joy of this mod was that it is supposed to be bullet-proof and never really need de-bugging

If I ever get a crash myself I'll let you know what I learn from logs and the like (you might want to turn yours on as well just in case you can catch something).

 

[Falc]

I didn't have the patience to remove modules one by one, recreate maps, and see if the problem went away (since it is random anyway).

There's a faster way. Divide your mods in half, test one half. It's either good or bad, and the other half is the opposite. Split the bad half in half again, test one of those sets. Repeat until you're done.

 

[Falc]

Alternatively, you may use this installer to get the Promotion & Spells working properly. Since this makes a change to the MAIN FfH XML, it is only compatible with 2.30 Patch K.

Please note that this installer overwrites a file that may already be modified by the Fall Further mod, namely Assets/XML/Units/CIV4PromotionInfos.xml

This results in the Orc Slaying and Furious promotions no longer being available to Fall Further. Merging the two files is pretty easy though.

 

[Elm]

Oh, maybe my problem is that I used the installer, then installed patch "k" on top of it (i wasn't interested in the new spells, at least not at the moment). I removed all modules except for:

Event Fixes
Changed Summons
Animals Build Lairs
Dangerous Special Features

I was under the impression that only the CIV4PromotionInfos.xml file was only needed for the New Summons module. Is this correct?

If I have a chance, I will remove all modules and just run with ModularLoading = 1 to see if I still have occasional crashes.

 

[Falc]

Yes, the only point of changing the base FfH CIV4PromotionInfos.xml file is to enable the Dimensional summons.

 

[xienwolf]

@falc: Yes, as I had pointed out, that deep fix is only able to work with Raw FfH 2 030 patch K. Any other mods and you will have to do it by hand. And since you have to actually change the XML from the module itself ot include the pre-reqs it can be a bit clunky of a solution for anyone who isn't already digging into the XML sadly.

@Elm: If you are just using the Modules, and not the Deep Fix, you should be fine no matter the order of installing this and installing patches for FfH (as long as you turn modules back on).

Actually though, quite a few of the modules make small changes to the PromotionInfos file within their modules. It is just that in the case of the Dimensional Summons I NEED to set pre-reqs, and you cannot do that in a module

Another thing you can test is if the animal lairs are causing the problem. If you go into worldbuilder and give yourself a couple of animals, then grant yourself the Tech "NEVER" you can build lairs yourself to see if building one of them causes a crash.