Monarch Student^ III - Sitting Bull

[Ignorant Teacher]

Silu

Spoiler :

Good point about the TPs. I'll go Myst soon, as I think that SB's archers + Dogs will be able to hold Toku for a long time if it's necessary. When are the Mids usually built on Imm?

Meatbuster

Spoiler :

I have to check again, but I don't think I'm already connected to them. Doesn't it work like Astro? They have TRs with me, but I don't have with them?

 

[Silu]

Silu

Spoiler :

Good point about the TPs. I'll go Myst soon, as I think that SB's archers + Dogs will be able to hold Toku for a long time if it's necessary. When are the Mids usually built on Imm?

Spoiler :

From the top of my head (I'm not an expert in early wonder-timing) - anywhere from 1500BC to the early ADs. Brown maps gimp AIs in every way, including production, surprisingly (to my experience), so probably closer to the later bound.

Meatbuster

Spoiler :

I have to check again, but I don't think I'm already connected to them. Doesn't it work like Astro? They have TRs with me, but I don't have with them?

Spoiler :

Yeah that's how it works. So you are currently in the worst case scenario - giving free $$ to them while getting none in return.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Immortal / Normal - 500AD. Need some help with diplomacy.

Spoiler :

I changed research to Sailing then Mysticism as Silu suggested. After that I finished Aesthetics, then Poly, Literature, Math, Currency, Hunting and started Music hoping for the free GA. I was able to chop/build the Pyramids, the Parthenon the Great Library and the NE in Cahokia. I've settled two GEs there and a GS.

I think I'll now research Calendar and Monarchy because of the happy cap, then research until Engineering while bulbing my way to Liberalism to try to capture Beijing. Mao build the Great Lighthouse there and it would be awesome to control it.

My problem now is diplo. Toku and Mao are Jewish and had a short war with MM, who's Hindu. When Judaism spread to my lands, I converted. The problem is that MM asked me to join the war, give him Literature and convert to Hinduism and I refused all those requests. I should probably have given him Lit. That dropped him to annoyed and made me switch to NSR. He went back to Cautious, but Toku became Annoyed. I don't think I'm in danger in case Toku DOWs me because I don't think MM would open borders with his worst enemy, but Mao can join him and put me in serious trouble (he already has CKNs). What should I do? I haven't been trading because MM is the only one I can trade with and he's the worst enemy of Toku and Mao.

The empire's not too bad. I'm number 2 in land and my GNP is either #3 or #2, depending on the turn. Production is alright, I'm the third most productive empire.

Land:






Demographics and techs:





Cahokia:

 

[Silu]

Immortal / Normal - 500AD. Need some help with diplomacy.

Spoiler :

I think I'll now research Calendar and Monarchy because of the happy cap, then research until Engineering while bulbing my way to Liberalism to try to capture Beijing. Mao build the Great Lighthouse there and it would be awesome to control it.

Spoiler :

Calendar? Monarchy? With the 'Mids and no Calendar resources except Bananas? I suppose you get the Wine with Monarchy though, and Priesthood gives you 2 happy for the most part. Stagnate cities with Scientists if you run out of happy.

Spoiler :

My problem now is diplo. Toku and Mao are Jewish and had a short war with MM, who's Hindu. When Judaism spread to my lands, I converted. The problem is that MM asked me to join the war, give him Literature and convert to Hinduism and I refused all those requests. I should probably have given him Lit. That dropped him to annoyed and made me switch to NSR. He went back to Cautious, but Toku became Annoyed. I don't think I'm in danger in case Toku DOWs me because I don't think MM would open borders with his worst enemy, but Mao can join him and put me in serious trouble (he already has CKNs). What should I do? I haven't been trading because MM is the only one I can trade with and he's the worst enemy of Toku and Mao.

Spoiler :

Well you're quite in a pinch wrt diplo. I'd probably just forget about MM and try to cozy it up with Toku (gifting Aes brings him to Cautious right away), using Judaism. I'm not a fan of the "cautious with everyone" strat (esp with weak military), while it assures you some trade routes, it usually loses out in the end because of lost tech trades. -2 with everyone cos of turned-down requests doesn't help. And you really need that religion bonus for Toku to even open borders with you. Why is an annoyed MM a bad thing? Not like you can trade with him anyway as he's the worst enemy of your other 2 mates. Oh, and you can also gift your extra Wheat and Fish for some +diplo after a (long) while.

Your tech path doesn't really warrant any wars anytime soon, so setting your sights on Peking this is out of the question for a while; not to mention that you'd get terrible diplo consequenses. I'd just try to avoid being at the wrong end of a Japanese/Chinese invasion while picking up the tech pace, fueled with tech trades from Mao/Toku.

Btw, cottages in capital (esp. plains ones) are horrible for settled specialists, you want production and food instead (building Wealth and maxing specialists when there's nothing else to do). Other cities can take care of the $$.

 

[Meatbuster]

@Silu:

Spoiler :

Oh, that's how lopsided not having Sailing is? Crap. I'm researching Sailing right away next time! Better edit my previous post I guess.

I chuckled when I read about the potential "Japanese/Chinese invasion".

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Immortal / Normal - 1400AD

Spoiler :

Things are looking better. We were able to get Toku to pleased and send a Workboat past his land and contact the rest of the world. When I met them, I felt so happy that they all hated me because I'd traded with Tokugawa and Mao. I was able to be the first to Liberalism and took Astronomy. The Taj Mahal had already been built. In fact, by the time I reached Lib, Gandhi switched to US and Emancipation. Alright, better play a more standard map next time to see how Immortal goes in a standard map. Now that I've met everybody I started reading the other games in spoilers and saw that the AI was slower than it usually is.

I guess that I'll try to get to Rifles (or Infantry depending on the AIs) and claim the rest of the continent to myself. MM has a couple of shrines and I think it would be nice to have them.

 

[Meatbuster]

@IT

Spoiler :

Wait, what? Napoleon is missing. Did Gandhi wipe him out again?

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

@IT

Spoiler :

Wait, what? Napoleon is missing. Did Gandhi wipe him out again?

Spoiler :

Only in the Liberalism screenshot because I hadn't met him yet. He's there in the others. I don't doubt Gandhi would wipe him out here in case Nappy declared. He's the top dog in the game. Did you edit his starting location?

 

[Meatbuster]

@IT:

Spoiler :

I didn't touch Gandhi. Only Mao and Napoleon...

I edited Napoleon's start because it was just so bad in the first map generation. Guess it isn't good enough for him to do well. I should probably have given him gold in the BFC.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

@IT:

Spoiler :

I didn't touch Gandhi. Only Mao and Napoleon...

I edited Napoleon's start because it was just so bad in the first map generation. Guess it isn't good enough for him to do well. I should probably have given him gold in the BFC.

Spoiler :

Or 3 riverside grassland gems and 2 irrigated corn. Even Tokugawa could become tech leader that way if you also put copper in the BFC and iron at hand. Nice map, BTW. First time I play an Ice Age map.

 

[Kadazzle]

@IT

Spoiler :

Your game so far looks very winnable, just run some more specialists where it's possible. Added to that, you still have a lot of cottages, so binary research would still benefit you.

 

[Gumbolt]

Spoiler :

Why has no one built TGL? 7-8 coastal cities and 2 extra trade routes with a few specialists gets you 70-80 science without really trying.

I guess mids is more useful with few happiness resources around.

I never knew wealth could give so much science in these games!! Production cities really do give value.

I think this map with all the forest and stone allows a bit of a wonder spam.

For me maybe chop mids 2000bc then nab GLH or GL.

I would agree all the plains is crippling the AI.

 

[Silu]

Spoiler :

Why has no one built TGL? 7-8 coastal cities and 2 extra trade routes with a few specialists gets you 70-80 science without really trying.

Spoiler :

Assuming it's GLH you're talking about (I've understood the convention is GLH and TGL for the Great Library?) :

Getting both 'Mids and GLH while not losing too much ground to expanding AIs is pretty tough on Immortal. Also you need to really commit to GLH because you need to tech Sailing earlier than really needed. No production modifier (ORG/IND) doesn't help either. In my game I probably could have gotten it as it went pretty late IIRC, but still would have been a gamble.

 

[Lansky]

To piggyback Silu -

Spoiler :

Getting the lighthouse and the 'mids with Roosevelt also starting with a coastal capital will be very difficult on a higher difficulty. Given the surrounding land and lack of islands to settle early I'd prefer the 'mids.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

@IT

Spoiler :

Your game so far looks very winnable, just run some more specialists where it's possible. Added to that, you still have a lot of cottages, so binary research would still benefit you.

Spoiler :

I think so too. I'm just finishing the LHC and will get back to this game right after. Do you agree that conquering MM would be the best choice?

 

[v8_mark]

I've had an interesting game to 1200AD (Monarch/Epic):

Spoiler :

Game's just about won, don't know whether I'll play it out.

REXed hard early on with the gems in the south helping me out money-wise. I made GLH a huge priority early on, nabbing it in about 1000BC. All of my cities are coastal (if you include the one on the inland lake to the west, which the game does) so it was a big help. Expanded to 8 cities by 200BC, and set about building an economy; tech pace was very slow, so I was able to snag Alphabet before anyone else did, then go Aesthetics-Literature for TGL. A thousand or so years later, I bulbed Metal Casting for forges, but ridiculously missed out on the Colossus in 55BC to Washington, who'd built most of the game's wonders. Guess he must've taken MC from the Oracle. An extremely late Pyramids helped me out massively in 600AD or so.

I raced to Civil Service and Machinery for maces, teched Engineering (mainly for Notre Dame, but trebs helped me out too) and headed for Liberalism, taking Astronomy. I also decided I would do something very rare: a pre-Astronomy intercontinental invasion of China. So I built 5 galleys, 2 triremes and loaded them up with maces. Confu shrine Shanghai fell, as did Beijing and Xian, so I have all of the western half of that continent. I'll need to finish it off soon.

Here are some screenies:

First off, Native America:


China


Diplo screen - I've been friendly with MM for ages now:


Techs (looking good):


Demographics, boosted a bit by taking Astro from Lib for intercontinental trade routes:


and finally, wonders, showing the full extent of Washington's whoring:

 

[Teelman]

Monarch/Normal

1st checkpoint 100AD

Spoiler :

Initial build order: wb/worker/war/war/dog/set/worker/war/set
Initial techs: AH/Mining/BW/Wheel/Myst/Writing/IW/Aest/Currency

I tried to rex pretty hard since there was room for a decent amount of cities. I popped masonry from a hut and immediately chopped the mids


By end of bc's, MM and Mao very Jewish and Toku was Christian and both of their worse enemies. MM and Toku warred a few times and slowed everything down.






I was pretty even in tech lead with MM and he was my best buddy until a little later Toku and Mao were pretty tech backwards to me from the start. MM and me were pretty much always trading. Toku was hated by everyone.

2nd checkpoint 1080AD

Spoiler :

By this time, I had met Roosevelt and traded maps to get the circum bonus


Here is the empire



My tech rate is pretty abysmal because I had just taken two cities from toku and a barb city by the inland sea. But i was building my unis for my oxford for my capital which helped and I chopped the taj mahal for a GA which helped the recovery as well.




By this time MM and toku already had two or three wars and MM asked me to join so I said what the heck. I took two of his western cities and expanded my border with just a few extra macemen I had around because Toku was so tech backwards it was easy. I peaced a treaty for 10 turns and full out invaded because MM and everyone else hated him so i figured he was an easy target. I was about to take his last city when he vasseled to MM..........grrrrrrr. So I had over 2/3 of our island with MM in the middle of me since I took over most of Toku's empire on the western side of the island. At this point MM was still by BFF, but I decided I WANTED THE WHOLE ISLAND TO MYSELF MUAHAHAHAHA!!!!! So........I declared and eventually.....

3rd Checkpoint and Victory!!!!

Spoiler :

So I had the whole island to myself I had to pick the next target. Well, while warring with MM, Mao declared on me but only landed one ship of troops which promptly died. So, I figured he was a good target. I took about 2/3 of his cities before he capitulated including bejing with a few wonders (sorry forgot to get pictures of mao dying). So that left the other island. Ghandi was culture whoring to a cultural win but pretty far off. Teddy was a buddy of mine (about +12 diplo) and a good tech trading partner but only had six cities so if he got close to space I wasnt worried about taking him out quick. At this point I was going for a dom/conq win. I had around 40% land and the next biggest was Nappy at around 20% AND everyone hated his guts on the other island cept for Teddy (he liked everyone....) so i figured he would be a good target, plus I had calvary and he was stuck on the medievel units So eventually...
He only had one city left on a little island so i left that. I was only a few % points of the conquest so I figured Ghandi was next but before that could happen......
The last 5-6 UN votes I missed the win by 50 votes or less so i figured it was only a matter of time and the rest of Nappy's land pushed me over the end. Still....I WON!!!!

 

[v8_mark]

Monarch/Epic - 1838 and Domination!

Spoiler :

Finished Mao off around 1300, then set about heading for rifles and cannons and disposing of FDR. Sent an expeditionary force to deal with his 6 cities, and they made extremely short work of him.

From then on it was a question of building up, heading for Assembly Line and cranking out infantry/cannon. At some point Napoleon capped Toku, and the two of them set out to war against Gandhi - this was a pretty even fight until I got involved eliminating Japan completely, and capping Napoleon myself.

The game was totally over, and if I was role-playing in any way I would have hunkered down and teched to space, but I wanted it over in a hurry - so Mansa and Gandhi, who were staunch friends and allies - had to be dealt with. He lasted 2 turns, and Gandhi lasted the same length of time. This put me just over the domination limit!

117K score, my second highest ever. Thanks for hosting the game, on to Tokugawa now!

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Immortal / Normal - 1705AD. It's winnable, but it's tough.

Spoiler :

Sorry if I sound too whiny, but the LHC made me work my arse off and end in a defeat so I don't want to put so much effort to a game that I think I'll lose. (Of course I'll play it to the end, but I just want to let it out).

So, my situation is this: I picked the game where I'd stopped in the last post and started to gear up for war with Mansa Musa.I spent 6 turns in US / Nationhood drafting and buying Cavalries. Meanwhile, I got the Communism spy and infiltrated him in Mali. The war has been a success so far, but it may be all for nothing.

This is what I've taken so far:






And this is what's left of Mansa Musa:




I am positive that I can finish MM off and absorb Japan without traumas, but the problem is Gandhi. He's getting close to a culture victory, more than I would like.




It's not like he's about to win or anything, but still. I can delay it by paying him to switch to Bureau in case he's in FS (forgot to check), but I'll have to take action because the AIs will let him win. Now, none of his cities is coastal (Pataliputra is the one behind the wine north of Delhi):




I think I'd better start building some Galleons now and amassing an army to invade him right after I'm done conquering Mali. I'm thinking a disembark right beside Bombay will do. What do you think?

Techs and diplomacy:

 

[Silu]

IT:

Spoiler :

Well, it's turn 251/500 and he has over 100 turns to go to cultural so I wouldn't be too scared. If you want you can take your sweet time and whack Toku and/or Mao before him. They might be safer targets diplo-wise. Afterwards if you are lazy you can just hunker down and go for space, while amassing a culling party to raze Bombay if G gets dangerously close to cultural. Hard to say more without a tech shot.