Monarch Student XI Sury

@ Mike

Washington sounds good.

I'm still going by the list Meatbuster had In the bullpen. Although I will prolly go with continents as map type. I will post ealry next week, want people to play this map first.
 
Monarch, marathon, till 970 BCE
Spoiler :

In the beginning, I teched AH, then agriculture, then fishing, then BW. I think fishing should have waited here, because of the number of forests around.

I started directly with training a worker, and I think this was one of those cases where it's not such a good idea: I still had to wait turns for AH after the worker was already out, so I had to build a mine half-way, then build the pasture, then complete the mine. (and with this, I lost a move because I stopped the mine one move too early :)) I also had to wait for a few turns before being able to build the farm on the rice, so all in all, I think training a warrior, at least partly, would have been a lot better this time, and I hope I keep this in mind. :D Wasted worker turns could have very well been turns to faster expansion, thanks to earlier militarization.

Well... that was that. After training the worker, cap started on a warrior, then another and then a settler, which founded the city south of capital, on plains hills, claiming the horsies. I missed out on the clams, thanks to not exploring, but I like this set up as well.

Later I teched the wheel, to connect the horsies, then sailing, to connect the city I was going to found in the east for copper, then writing for faster tech, then pottery (yeah, I know the order could have been reversed for discount, and I want to ask which order was best - I didn't yet have good enough reason to want cottages, and I thought that slightly faster tech rate for the basics would be good). After these I teched alphabet, painfully slow, after which I traded for archery, mysticism and iron working. No iron in my lands or close, sadly.

I founded 6 cities I like, then Qin settled 1E of another place I was planning on settling 10-20 turns later. :( I hope I manage to culture crush it, but... no matter how it goes, I am stuck with only 6 good cities for quite a while.

I'm currently taking currency, then planning on getting code of laws, then maths, construction and calendar. (I might need to fend of Kublai, and having some catapults might be good against attacking stacks, and if not, perhaps I'll attack him later, I don't think he's the kind of leader you can truly be friends with)

Land:
BCE970_west.jpg

BCE_970_east.jpg


Spoiler :
How is it going just seen your game. I play epic not marathon, but nice block down bu KK. Sucks that Qin got city on your continent.

This is a tough map. I prolly should have given us iron or ivory atleast. Keep at it I only had 8 cities until i got astronomy.
 
@mjg5591
Spoiler :

Haven't played since that point yet. :) I plan on finishing the Mehmed NC game today, and then I'll continue with this one, so I might get more progress today... I hope it's not the off-the-map kind of "progress". :)

Thank you for letting me know of your situation as well, if you managed with that, it offers some hope, as I can still settle two cities, although one will kind of suck, it will be a city just for landfill+resources and hoping for oil in one of the desert spots later on.

I would like to ask, though: which is a better choice in attacking:
Kublai, who will be a threat rather constantly, but who has not so good lands?
Or Qin, who already has two-three wonders I'd like, who has already annoyed me quite some and who has what I think is good lands? But Qin might be one of those guys liked by a lot of people on the map.

Given that this is Monarch, which is more difficult than what I've played so far, I think I'll go with an easier victory type: domination :) so I might not care all that much about diplo... but... it's still too early to say anything for certain at this point.
 
And that's rerun for me. How do people around here look upon reruns?
Spoiler :

The massive uprising occurred, and where else other than near me? I attacked the barbs' axemen with my axemen and I've lost all three battles, despite my axemen having combat promotions. I was also in bad shape with Qin, who had built wonder after wonder, settled on my continent (with that city becoming the confu holy city)

And I did a mistake which I plan to correct this time. I am so used to always building something, but in this game, considering the fast expansion, I should have "built" research in my cities, not spamming axemen, since I only needed a few here and there, and definitely not building lighthouses, considering that I didn't yet need more growth in those cities. I guess higher difficulty = lose bad habits or lose. :)
 
And that's rerun for me. How do people around here look upon reruns?
Spoiler :

The massive uprising occurred, and where else other than near me? I attacked the barbs' axemen with my axemen and I've lost all three battles, despite my axemen having combat promotions. I was also in bad shape with Qin, who had built wonder after wonder, settled on my continent (with that city becoming the confu holy city)

And I did a mistake which I plan to correct this time. I am so used to always building something, but in this game, considering the fast expansion, I should have "built" research in my cities, not spamming axemen, since I only needed a few here and there, and definitely not building lighthouses, considering that I didn't yet need more growth in those cities. I guess higher difficulty = lose bad habits or lose. :)

This seiries is meant to get better. Reruns are aloud, it's about having fun and learning.

You can also disable events like TMIT suggests, but I like the events good and bad.
 
Monarch marathon rerun
1000BCE
Spoiler :

This time around I took advantage of the knowledge of my mistakes from the first run, so first moves were different this time.

I still was unsure how to begin, but I knew from last time that one of the most frustrating things was not having much available to my worker because of so many forests and no BW, so I immediately teched BW, while training a warrior. After the warrior was done, I started a worker, who was going to be ready exactly 1 turn earlier than BW, which was great, choppable forests immediately. :D

After the worker was ready, I started another warrior and started teching fishing, while the worker was chopping. When fishing was ready, I switched to fishing boat, having trained three warriors total until this point(1 as first build of the game, two after worker), and then, with two population in capital, I began on a settler.

I started teching AH and kept chopping until worker was ready to build a pasture. This time around, having seen copper earlier (honest, I had already forgotten where it was, I just remembered to look to the west :)), I've sent my first settler to take copper. Also, in order to be able to use it, I teched the wheel and sailing next. But not being careful, I sailing didn't connect my cities, because I still hadn't explored a water path to the north, which was very silly of me. I later took care of that.

Teching after sailing was agriculture, writing, pottery, maths (thinking/hoping that one of the other dudes was going to have alphabet and willing to trade it, but I was wrong), and now, because I was wrong about the other three civs' possession of the alphabet, I'm teching it as well. Next is currency, then CoL.

I have settled two good cities in the west, planning on one more in the following picture. One of these cities currently has 2 scientist specialists, so I'm going to have some earlier GSs this game. I guess there is a good thing to the sad truth that you can't grow your cities further for a while.

I have settled one north-west, which is also going to be a decent city. North of it, on Qin's continent, where I now have an axeman unit, I am going to plant another city, which is going to be a GP farm at some point.

And in the east, I have my capital, which is a decent city, and one of my production cities. (along with the city which has copper in its BFC)

That means two prod cities, 2 commerce cities, 1 currently production capital so far.
 
Monarch/Epic 1926 UN Diplo Victory

Funny thing is I almost gave up very early in this game when I found out about the map. As mentioned in my earlier update, a Barb Horse Archer capture a Mongol city that I was able to take the next turn with some units I had fogbusting in the area. Very surprising that this rare Barb unit popped up near settled land like that. That city is actually the one in the victory screen below and became my Wall Street/Corp HQ. I almost retired before that event happened.


Spoiler :



Space was a given here. I could and should of beelined MM early for this Diplo win given that I had 3 vassals and friendly with everyone else - less the two break-off civs of Qin and Kubla. Domination was possible but would have been a grind.

I'd say the one thing I was happy about this game was being forced to really try out new strategies. Probably the best thing I did was really focusing on working up very high production cities. Angor Thom was an absolute hammer juggernaut. I built West Point in 8 turns- although I never really got to make use of it.

Once I got them, I ran Caste/Merc/Rep the whole game and a lot of specialists. I find Sury to actually have some good traits for really growing cities and the Baray is just got to be one of the best UBs. I'd say at a reasonable early stage in the game I had all my major cities working every tile in the BFC, plus specialists. I had up to 10 scientist running in the CAP and it was still a fairly productive city.

Interesting to note in the tech screen that I appear to have a fairly strong tech lead at this stage. However, the major players like me, Qin, Cyrus, Kubla were fairly even for quite some time. Probably what helped is managing the Mansa's research after I capped him in order to trade for lesser priority techs. It still was bizarre how slow these guys all of a sudden become at research. I'm thinking it may have to do with them starting to run US and focusing on gold.

Anyway, this turned out to be a fun and educating game. I'd say I really tried out some new things here.


VICTORY!!!

msxivictory0000.jpg


Tech

msxitech0000.jpg




Probably my key issue as usual is losing a little focus as the game goes on. I got caught up with vassalizing Alex, Biz and Mansa when I should have figured that UN could have been a priority for an easy win. Domination would have taken a lot of work.
 
I got a little crushed tech wise in this game and gave it away at about 1700 when I was just researching Alphabet :hmm:

I'll leave the Monarch games for the good players :(
 
Well, never done one of these before but I figure it'll help me get better. I play about half my games on prince, half on monarch. Prince I can usually win easily, monarch I rarely win. So here goes.

Monarch/Epic through 655 AD

Spoiler :

4000 BC: Settle in place. Will go worker first and AH -> Farming to keep my worker busy. Likely holding off on fishing a bit and will probably go for bw after.

2625 BC: Capital went Worker/Warrior/Settler. Hariharalaya (2nd city) founded to south by cow/horse for some early chariots to deal with barbs, though fog-busting looks fairly easy on this map.

Side note, I don't think I've ever played a map type like this and honestly if I ever got a map type like this from like fractal or something, I'd probably abandon it. This won't be easy.

1.jpg


Sharing 'continent' with Kublai. Qin is... somewhere. Some nearby landmass as his fishing boats are all over my coastlines.

Shape of continent makes it easy to block KK in, but I rarely found an early city far away for the block, dunno why. Anyway I'll probably expand kinda linearly, though I definitely want to settle the dye and stone north of KK. Probably not going to be able to grab iron.

Lack of religion or luxury resources badly hurting my growth. Non-capital cities limited to 4 pop until either Qin spreads Confucianism to me, or I get to Calendar/Monarchy. I'm forced to work awkward tiles to avoid unhappy citizens for basically all of BC era. As we near the birth of christ, I am starting to fall behind tech wise, despite my attempts to tech trade to my advantage.

Early common era plans: Plan on warring with KK. As expected, my borders extend to the Stone/Dye north of KK, but I have no access to Iron. I'm starting to fall slightly behind in tech, particularly to Qin. I really cannot compete until I solve my happiness problems, though Confucianism has begun to spread to my lands which helps.

2.jpg


Without swords or maces, I'm probably going to have to suicide a lot of pults to take any cities. Qin is pretty happy with me, so I'm not worried about him declaring on me once I declare on KK. I research calendar and trade for monarchy, and also get some sugar and spice from Cyrus, which is always nice (yeah, that was lame), so I can finally grow my cities and whip more liberally.

KK gets feudalism earlier than I would have liked (bleh!). I trade for horseback riding from Qin so I'm gonna have to rely on axes and HAs to take cities against longbows, which means lots of pults will be needed, plus spears to defend against annoying Keshiks.

490 AD: Declare on KK. Army is smaller than I would like it to be. Only 5 pults, which is enough to take one city, but I definitely need more to take more than that. Reinforcements from my capital and first few cities take a long time due to the shape of the land, so I'm gonna need to whip pults from the closer cities if I want to take a second city soon.

I march on Turfan. Beshbalik is the second target, and taking both takes his only source of horses, which will make him easier to conquer. Turfan is the safer first target though, as it won't be enveloped by KK's borders once I take it, plus he has no walls there, unlike Besh.

Trying to take longbow defended cities with poorly upgraded axes and HAs is not fun :( In some horribly bad luck, all 5 of my pults die attacking Turfan, despite having some really good odds on 2-3 of them (like 40, then 65, then 90). I lose little else though, maybe an axe to bad rolls and a craptacular chariot or two. Still, definitely wasn't counting on losing that many pults. I won't be able to march on Beshbalik for a while now, and I decide to take a weak peace offer (like 3 gpt and 50 gold or so) while I rebuild some pults.

3.jpg


I'm definitely behind now though. Qin has maybe 4-5 techs on me and my research isn't all that great while trying to war. I started falling behind when my cities couldn't grow past 4 and going to war slowed it a bit too.

Right now the plan is to take a few more KK cities and hopefully either conquer or vassal him and get a few techs out of him. I'll then probably have to build a lot of research or try to steal some techs to catch up. Hopefully my city base by that time will be competitive.

Late game plans are pretty unclear as I have done pretty poor scouting outside my land mass so far. Perhaps expanding quicker and pursuing a peaceful early game might have turned out better as I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to keep up due to a fairly weak start.

Any advice, ideas on what went wrong/right, greatly appreciated :)
 
comet

Spoiler :

A couple of points that would have helped your tech situation

1) Get an exploratory wb out early to meet all your neighbours. For the cost of 45 :hammers: the return on investment form trade routes and tech trades is well worth it.

2) On a map where all your cities are coastal and you have neighbouring continents, building the GLH makes the map so much easier

Good luck for the rest of the game
 
till about 1940
Spoiler :


Well i think i'm going to lose this one. I thought i wasn't doing too bad but somehow i managed to mess it up.

I can't remember the actual dates and can't check them right now since i'm at work. i don't have internet at home at the moment so i can't post from there.

I avoided war for a very long time, in fact i don't think i ever had such a peacefull game.

By the time i met Bismarck he had already made Mansa a vassal and Alexander followed shortly after. All 3 of them were behind in tech a lot, but once everybody got astronomy they gained on the rest of us very fast.

i declared on Kublai when i got tanks and took 2 of his cities after which he capitulated. Bismarck later declared on Qin and asked me to join in which i did. I took 1 city and Bismarck got none before peace was declared.

At the moment Bismarck is huge and i doubt i can take him on when i decide to DOW on him. He is also rapidly finishing the spacecraft (he already built the space elevator).

The way i see it i'm in this situation because i didn't set a victory goal for myself, i just left all possibilities open untill it was too late. Usually i go for a domination victory but i have very little experience in waging a overseas war.

I'll finish this game today and will hopefully post the result tomorrow.

 
I got a little crushed tech wise in this game and gave it away at about 1700 when I was just researching Alphabet :hmm:

I'll leave the Monarch games for the good players :(

I do post a Noble save so you can play prince. But look at others games to see how they progressed and maybe this could help you figure out some things. When jumping up on levels I noticed trades are needed alot more then lower ones. Beeline a certain tech and trade it around to everyone to catch up in tech.
 
@comet

Spoiler :
Yea this was a really odd map. I would have waited to war with KK til rifles or Cav. I did a bad job with map. I didn't give us jumbos for our UU or iron. I didn't edit the map at all.

As for going forward, try and beeline techs that have good trade value so you can tarde to mulitple civs to catch up. Also I would try and get to optics to meet the other civs who may help you catch up in tech.

If you want to finish KK or vassal him make sure you take enough units to take a few cities. Also sometimes you don't need to use all your cats on cities. Use cat's til the odds favor your attacking units.

Hope this helps somewhat. I am only 50-50 on emperor though. Hopefully much better players can help aswell.

 
I got a little crushed tech wise in this game and gave it away at about 1700 when I was just researching Alphabet :hmm:

I'll leave the Monarch games for the good players :(

Yep, like mjg said, getting a certain tech and trading it around helps out. This is a tough map so hang in there and try again!

I'd try playing the map again, maybe not all the way through, maybe just until 1AD and see where you are. Practice makes perfect.
 
Spacerace victory in 2002

Spoiler :


Still no pictures so i'll try to keep it short. :)

Some important events:

I was the first to Liberalism, Astrology and The Internet (got about 8 techs from that).
Settled 2 islands, one to the South-east and one far to the east near Saladin/cyrus.

As i posted before i didn't really have a plan for a victory for a long time. In the end i decided to go for the spacecraft. I changed the land around some cities from cottages to workshops so i could produce those spacecraft parts. All the other cities build wealth/research at that point.

To my surprise i actually finished the spacecraft first, two turns before Bismarck finished his! :)
It probably helped that he was almost constantly at war.

This was a pretty difficult map for me but it was a lot of fun. :) Thanks for that mjg5591.







 
Spacerace victory in 2002

Spoiler :


Still no pictures so i'll try to keep it short. :)

Some important events:

I was the first to Liberalism, Astrology and The Internet (got about 8 techs from that).
Settled 2 islands, one to the South-east and one far to the east near Saladin/cyrus.

As i posted before i didn't really have a plan for a victory for a long time. In the end i decided to go for the spacecraft. I changed the land around some cities from cottages to workshops so i could produce those spacecraft parts. All the other cities build wealth/research at that point.

To my surprise i actually finished the spacecraft first, two turns before Bismarck finished his! :)
It probably helped that he was almost constantly at war.

This was a pretty difficult map for me but it was a lot of fun. :) Thanks for that mjg5591.








Congradulations on the win, this was not an easy map at all.
 
Monarch, marathon, third rerun
start till 965 CE
Spoiler :

In my second rerun I decided to do things a little better, especially concerning starting moves, played till after liberalism, to which I was the first, but I had little land (did manage to colonize the closest island, but that's just two cities, and rather backward ones for still some time to come)

After the wars started out, I got discouraged and decided to rerun. I had, unfortunately, been hasty in deciding my diplo moves towards the countries in the other half of the world, and I ended up being friendly with Mansa, whom I wanted to attack, and unfriendly with Bismark, who attacked Mansa and Alexander, I think.

~~~
Third rerun
Started out with BH as a tech and a warrior as a build. When it was acceptable to do so, I started out on a worker who was ready at about the same time as BW, so he chopped a forest for the other warrior and the next worker, I think. When AH (second tech) was ready, I started teching agriculture and working on the cow pasture. When the second worker was out, I started training a settler into which I placed two chops. Then, one worker started building a farm and as soon as the wheel was ready, the other started roading towards my second city, the copper city.

After this point, the order of the moves is somewhat foggy to me, I do know that due to bad land, my second city started out on a worker. Anyway, built the mine, roads, and started training axemen. In the meantime, I settled two more cities, one south of capital, for production, and one south of copper city, for commerce.

As for techs, after the wheel was done, I took writing, to boost research up a bit, then pottery, then maths.

While teching maths, I decided to attack Kublai Khan, remembering from the previous rerun that little land = unhappiness for the player, at least if that happens to be me. :)
I sacrificed A LOT of axemen, but I was eventually able to conquer three of the cities Kublai had, plus autorazed another. Without catapults, taking the capital was very difficult, but when the opponent is limited to one city and you have units blocking their access to tiles and keeping their workers behind the walls, victory is only a matter of turns. I was eventually able to defeat Kublai Khan. :D I also managed to experience both sides of the battle luck coin: I lost an axeman who had 95%+ chance to win, and I won a few battles with 30%ish percent win chance. :D (Although overall, I think I was more lucky than unlucky)

After maths was done, I made the first HUGE mistake of this rerun: I looked upon my paralyzed cities due to jungle tiles, so I teched IW. Bad bad move... it took me 30+ turns to get IW (marathon), and then 50+ to get currency. I also had the chance to observe something I had never encountered in my games before this... mainly because I don't normally have so many cities so fast: not having enough projects available for building in cities due to lower tech rate. I was actually training fishing boats which I was offering as gifts to Qin, and in the two non-coastal cities I was training swordsmen which were getting dismissed as soon as they had been trained, in order to keep maintenance low. Even so, I still had to keep research at 10% or 20%, I had to keep a lot of scientist specialists in my cities just to be able to have any kind of tech rate towards currency.

As soon as currency was ready, I started building wealth in almost all of my cities and this allowed me to take the science slider to 70%, which offered a GREAT boost.

Well, that was that, played along after, took optics at some point and got the circumnavigation bonus, teched some techs, met other civs. At this point in history, I was researching education, and here is where I decided on a dramatic approach which in the end proved futile.

After this point, I decided to train a lot of catapults and macemen to attack Qin and take Beijing from him. He had a lot of wonders there, so taking the city would offer a great boost to me and would be a huge blow to Qin's progress for the rest of the game. I finished education, then teched liberalism, took astro as free tech, built galleons, filled them with about 10ish catapults and 10ish macemen and declared war on him. Landed my units near Beijing, and precisely next turn, Qin came and slaughtered almost all of my army with his xbowmen. I still wanted to try, though, so I at least tried to bombard the city defense. 10 catapults only managed to take the city's defenses from 150% to about 130%, so at that point I decided to give up.

I haven't yet decided whether to give up altogether, or whether to continue from the time in the screenshots, when I was still developing.

I also feel like I'm backwards, technologically speaking, it's the first time any civ had astro before me, and that doesn't feel too good. :) I guess that going up in difficulty also means that one must give up on a lot of advantages one took for granted in lower difficulties, so I might need to get used to barely having any kind of a tech lead, or even being behind in science, but for the moment, it feels discouraging.


Lessons I've learnt:
1. Currency is a vital tech early on, it's one of the best techs for anyone who wishes to expand fast, the tech which allows one to still found cities and still tech fast enough, and, since it is available earlier than CoL, and its benefits can be enjoyed immediately via building wealth, as opposed to after a few turns as it takes to build courthouses, it's really a priority. Or at least that's how I currently feel about the subject. Comments? :D
2.
Spoiler :

Qin's xbowmen are killing machines. :)
Also, related to this: strength ratios are completely irrelevant if, by the time your unit manages to land the first hit, it has already lost 2/3 of its soldiers. I think that one of Qin's xbows, with enough of those first strikes promotions, could even attack a rifleman without promotions. The battle wouldn't be 6 vs 14, but 6 vs 14/3 :).
 
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