Monarch Students game - climbing from Prince

[gcm4738]

Ok - I'll step up and admit... failure first time round

Since were supposed to be learning here... I am not happy.

Spoiler :

I played until 630AD. I had a really nice stack of cats/swords ready to start dismantling Izzy. Then I got dogpile DoW'ed by JC and KK simultaneously. I was the meat in their sandwich.

They were both Confucian and both pleased. I guess they couldn't resist using those Praets/Keshiks.

The AI is much more aggressive. I thought I had this game reasonably under control. Had built parthenon, tech lead. Just needed to start adding some more land, and as everyone on my continent was confucian and friendly except Izzy the Buddhist that seemed to be the way to go. Boy was I wrong.

I really should have known better I suppose.

I'll try again with a different strategy even though I really don't like doing this, because I already know too much. This is the way to learn I guess though.

 

[JTMacc99]

To 265AD

Spoiler :

Settled in place, explored all over the place, found all the same neighbors everybody else did. Rushed a settler out to the spot on the river below roman territory that claims copper, two spices and the cows. Missed out on the horse rice city (as Rome divereted the settler aiming for my spot to my second choice. Third city went over by sitting bull to get the cows, bananans and copper, but got there a little late and his culture is still owning that copper right now. Fourth city is on the river by the gems.

Eventually, Stonehenge and the palace flip the Roman city with my horses and rice, which was great. Once the copper was hooked up, I started buildign some axes, as the power rating was very low. Right around the time I had just about drawn even with Rome (and was ahead of the others) JC declared war. Walls around my copper/spice city and the quick addition of axes (to get the number up to 5 in that city) prevented any serious threat, and eventually we went back to peace.

Izzy has converted everybody but JC to her religion, so that's both a blessing and a curse.

At the moment, I've gone Metal Casting - Currency (two turns from that) and then I think I'll go for construction and see if I can't pick up a couple more cities somewhere. The Praets are a real problem, which is kind of annoying as his territory would be the most useful. I could smack around Sitting Bull, since he's the low man on the totem pole and it's best to do this thing before he gets longbows. I could also head south, but once KK get's annoyed with me, he could spend a lot of time running those damn horsemen around pillaging my stuff.

Overall, I'm got some nice cities, but it sure is cramped and a little scary on this continent right now. Ideally, I need to figure out a way to expand to 8-10 cities without pissing off the rest of the continent, and then figure out another way to get steel way before everybody else does, so that I can consolidate the rest of the continent with cannons.

Not going to be easy, but it looks like this could be the easiest way to beat this map.

 

[assass1n]

Monarch/Epic
To 85 AD

Spoiler :

Techpath Went
AH>Min>BW>IW (which was a mistake)>Pottery>Fishing>Myst (popped)>Poly>Writing>Alpha
Capital + Warrior popped two huts

Third Hut which popped Myst

Met KK,SB,JC,Izzy
Declared on JC he had Prats but he didnt get to enjoy them for long enough right now hes down to one city and is giving me this for peace

So should I take it ?
Also a look at our Empire and the Capital



Any suggestions
Should i try building the Mids so late ?

 

[Rameau's Nephew]

I'm gonna give this a go this weekend. I'm normally a Monarch guy, but I haven't played Civ for a few months, so a nice 'show and tell' game should help shake the rust off.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Part II, 10 AD - 1000 AD, Monarch (duh)/Epic

Spoiler :

More action in this round. The hotheads start feeling uncomfortable in this crowded continent. And Sitting Bull keeps, well, sitting in his small corner, falling backward and minding his own business.
A mix of infrastructures and units, plus a couple wonders.

Tech path: currency - CoL - sailing - construction (from KK) - calendar - aesthetics - polytheism - literature - music - monotheism and priesthood (from Isa) - monarchy (Isa) - feudalism - hbr (Kubilai) - machinery just started

25 - Bully Bull (ok, that was bad). I accept and he's pleased. This means he's safe now and can't be bribed by those 2 muppets:

160 - Hanging Gardens in Rome. Here I'm hoping for a Great Eng later, to rush some useful wonder, or even saving him for Mining Inc:

190 - SB drops to cautious again (border tension), like everyone else. So I decide to convert to Buddhism. Isabella is still WHEOOHRN, like in the last 8 centuries or so. I feel I'm her target, as the lone heathen on this continent. So I start building some units. I hope her pathetic warmongering skills are as crap as in the lower levels.

205 - Great Spy settled in Heliopolis.

220 - CoL-->Sailing. Prereq for calendar, wich I need for a lot of resources. And I want Moai Statues in Memphis anyway.

250 - Trade with Kubilai:

325 - Isa builds the buddhist holy shrine.

370 - And act as predicted. Heliopolis is lightly defended, but a lot of units are converging there:

385 - Barb city captured. SB tried to capture it and lost some chariots/dogs in the process:

400 - Isabella DoW. What a surprise. Not:

Calendar-->Aesthetics. I usually neglect this path, but lately I've started to really appreciate an early HE. Plus, I'm thinking about the Statue of Zeus and possibly the Music free artist.

415 - Isa bribes Kubilai. Let's see those numberless minions:

430 - Isabella suicides two chariots and...retreats. Smart move, Heliopolis has walls (whipped in a brief switch to slavery) and lots of defenders:

455 - Kubilai's mini-stack shows up. At least he has a catapult:

520 - Aesthetics-->Polytheism.

535 - Isabella is back. Still no catapults:

She suicides her crap on Heliopolis' walls and is promptly sued for peace:

610 - Mini-stack ready at Tabriz:

The city is auto-razed and I still get the diplo penalty for "you razed one of our cities". I think this should be fixed. I didn't want to raze it in the first place:

625 - Ruins event. I pay to get the extra 50% but fail:

640 - Literature-->Music. Trade with Isa and switch to OR:

655 - GG settled in Rome.

700 - Kubilai completes the Great Library. Hmm, ok. What about more units instead, to look less stupid while trying to impress the spanish chick?

715 - Isabella comes asking for tribute. I would really like to see the consequences, but I want to be left alone until I have a nice medieval army:

760 - Rome completes a shiny statue and starts building the Heroic Epic:

Ning-Hsia is captured (barely, I've left a lot of units back in Heliopolis):

Fatboy is sued for peace:

More tech trading with Isabella:

835 - Rome completes the Heroic Epic and starts building assorted units.

850 - Music-->Feudalism. Time to get some longbows. Someone beat me to Music.

860 - Isa completes the Mausoleum.

870 - Trade with Kubilai:

920 - Kubilai completes the Parthenon.

1000 - Feudalism-->machinery and end of the round.



Tech situation, looking good:

Glance. Religion bonuses are growing:

Cities, building a mix of military and infrastructures:

Demographics, not bad:

Mongolian border:

Core:

North. Yes, a mine popped silver in Rome's BFC:

Our friends:

Kubilai's land is garbage and I'm going to wipe him when I have a decent stack of maces/trebs/lbows.
Isabella's land isn't much better, but that big Buddha Statue is generating 20ish gpt.
Out of the three, Sitting Bull has the best land, but is acting as usual and falling behind already.
Overall, I think I'm a strong position. My cottages are growing nicely, Liberalism race looks doable and I have a couple nice prod cities to pump units. I think I'll settle a filler city at the gold/fish (out of reach until optics) spot W of Rome. Quite crap site, but I hate junk enemy cities in my backyard.

The main goal now would be to secure this continent before oversea contact, but I don't think it's doable.

About the difficulty jump, nothing really impressive yet. But I'm very focused on this game. I'm thinking twice about every single little move and playing a very cautious diplomacy game. Probably a bit over-conservative, but I like the results of this approach so far.

 

[futurehermit]

Spoiler :

I have to say that the people who war chariot rushed the Romans have the right of it and people looking to make the jump to Monarch should read their write-ups. Once the Romans are gone there is a lot of land available for the Egyptian empire. From there, taking on the Mongolians should be fairly straightforward I wouldn't get too bogged down with wonders right away, but Rome could be designated to build post-rush wonders while the lower-half of the empire prepares for war on Mongolia.

 

[Single Malt]

I am going to take another attempt at it, as my fears were realised n the last one.

 

[assass1n]

Spoiler :

After reading those spoilers I am simply going to finish of JC and not bother with his sailing/mathematics/crap bribe

 

[KingMorgan]

1AD To 1010AD

Spoiler :

175AD Build Confu Shrine. JC has a huge stack of Praets in his city N of Cakhioa, i have many axes en-route, chopped mainly. If he does head for Cakhoia hopefuly a whipped wall and the fact it's on a hill, i may be able to hold it. Wish someone had discovered Alpha, i'd sell my granny for him to DOW on anyone else. As mentioned by TMIT all the AI here declare at pleased, which i didn;t know, otherwise i wouldn't be too worried by JCs stack.
225 Izzy coverts to Christ, silly women, JC worries me a little, can 7 axes + walls+hill defend against 8 prats? hopefully won;t find out.

275 AT LAST!! KK discovers Alpha, i trade CoL for Mon, imm swap into HR, Cakhoia will whip 2 workboats, maybe i can get this empire moving again! I beg sailing from JC and nearly fall off my chair when he gives it!

Barb spearman threaten Bulgar KK's ex barb city, 4 spears v 2 keshi 1 archer, hopfuly the spears will cross the river, then attack.

310 KK dicovers Philo, tao.
325 True Barbs swim the river and attack on the same turn, :roll: I return my axes to garrison.

385 JC has a stack on the way south, as i begged Sailing we have 10 turns suspect Izzy will have a visit. Heathenism doesn't pay. Maybe JC can be my . .. .. .. .. . later on if KK turns Taoist.
445 Izzy DoW KK, she's in for a surpise me thinks!!
500 Kk goes Tao. Izzy demands Clams, i give.

Highway robbery, but i make the deal! He would take KK for the same price, but i'm keen to reserver that honour for myself. KK culture stole my gems, the mofo.


655 trade Alpha to JC for Poly + 200gold. Research has been afwul for the last 300 years. Time to sprint to CS.
700 DOW Izzy at the requets of my Pal JC. Faux war if poss. JC takes a Barb city next to izzys boreders, the same one he marched hos stack to earlier, the stack return just befpre the payoff to war.
940 Buy izzy off with Asth, both JC and Izzy have 2 GG from skimishes, no cities fallen yet.
990 Glib is built capital, SoZ and nearly in on Path. Condsiding the Glight, 10 turns in 2nd city. only 2 costal cities, but why not. NE in the GPP Farm Cahokia.

1010AD Overall i'm surprised at the low global tech rate, had to trade CS for Fued with KK but i have paper and plan to bulb part Ed, Path com-pleted aand near to Glight. Other continent must be as bad judging by the lack of built wonders.

 

[gcm4738]

Spoiler :

Nope. I'm out.

Went back to my 1000 BC save - not to the beginning. This just felt "fairer" to me, because I was quite happy with my game up until then.

I had not decided to early rush and went for the wonders hoping I could survive the praetorian/keshik onslaught. I had not built much defense the first time. The second time I went back and built an "average" defense - 2 units per city + a backup force sufficient to hold one city against an average SoD.

I guess I thought the larger defense would deter either JC or KK or both, but nope. Even though the game played out a little differently in terms of city placement, etc. it still came down to JC/KK simultaneous dogpile in 600 AD.

I think futurehermit is right Ai Shizuka and those who rushed JC as early as possible have one good winning solution. My path might work, but it depends on getting to Feudalism and longbows as fast as reasonably possible to have longbows before 600 AD. That's really what I should have done second time round. Then I might have survived the brown and purple wave.

Back to prince for me - or an easier monarch game anyway

 

[Single Malt]

Spoiler :

Well I made another attempt, my last having failed. Now in this I decided to chariot rush our roman friend. I chopped/whipped about 10 chariots and rushed straight in for Rome itself. He already had praets online at 2000BCish! Still strength of numbers prevailed (2praets and archer don't stand versus 10 chariots). I also managed to take cumae, splitting his empire in two. He readily took peace then and was crippled. I reinvaded with cats and swords, and as he had no iron was steamrolled. I left him alive with one city, as peace allowed me to backfill many techs. My power lacks to SB and KK, but I am pulling back on those numbers. I won the Lib Race to take Nationalism, and am preparing to invade KK next with trebs and maces and pikes(to keep keshiks off my back), as his culture is quite pesky, and he has a nice capital. This is looking to become a victory for me if I play my cards right. KK has tech parity, but I may be able to bribe a dogpile with my tech advantage over the others.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

And part III, 1000 AD - 1600 AD:

Spoiler :

We unleashed Ramesses' wrath upon the vile Mongols in this round, while still keeping a decent research rate and a somewhat stable diplo situation.

Tech path: machinery - engineering - civil service - guilds - drama - education - gunpowder - printing press - chemistry - steel

Banking, philo, compass and optics from Sitting Bull.
Liberalism from Willem and Theology from Justinian.

1030 - Isabella completes the Shwedagon Paya. Islam FIDL.

1070 - Open borders with Kubilai. Forge and library in Heliopolis are destroyed by a hurricane.

1110 - Great Eng in Rome.

1120 - Machinery-->engineering, almost entirely bulbed by that Great Eng.

1150 - Isa builds Hagia Sophia.

1170 - Engineering-->Civil Service.

1180 - Kubilai builds Sistine.

1190 - Hindu AP BIDL.

1260 - CS-->Guilds. Switch to bureaucracy. I'm ignoring the Lib path, I want knights for the upcoming war vs Kubilai.

1295 - Totally lopsided trade with SB. I want to have him safe at pleased:

1300 - Kubilai builds Notre Dame.

3120 - Ready to DoW on Kubilai. Sitting Bull doesn't care, I get a -1 from Isa:

1325 - Mongol stack at Ning-Hsia:

Thebes water supply is poisoned and Tiflis is captured:

1330 - Guilds-->Paper. Pretty sure I'm going to lose the Lib race, but Education is a high priority tech anyway. The mongol stack at Ning-Hsia kills some defenders but is destroyed.

1350 - Beshbalik captured:

Horse Archers may be outdated, but still effective to soften up some defenders:

1355 - Some cash from Isa:

1360 - Kubilai builds Chichen Itza. Ugh.

1365 - Cash from Isa for guilds. Not the smartest idea, as you'll see later:

1370 - Paper-->Education.

1380 - OB with Isabella.

1395 - Mini stack ready at New Sarai. I attach a Great General to a knight. Forgot the leadership promo:

1400 - New Sarai is razed:

And Karakorum is captured:

Big bunch of shiny wonders inside and tons of food. I will turn this city into a late GP farm. The pool is a complete mess, so I hope to get assorted people to start some golden ages and possibly found a corporation or two:

1405 - Kubilai vassalize to Isabella, so I'm at war with both of them now. And she has a lot of knights, wich I kindly allowed her to build with that Guilds trade.

1420 - Colosseums quest. I have the SoZ, so why not:

1430 - Isa builds Uni of Sankore and Old Sarai is captured:

1435 - Finally someone in a distant land discovers the secrets of Liberalism.

1350 - Education-->Gunpowder.

1470 - Turfan captured:

1475 - Tech trading with the Bull. He's not totally useless, after all:

1500 - Sitting Bull completes the Colosseums quest. I was building the last 2, I think. Stupid way to waste a golden age.

1510 - Gunpowder-->Printing Press. I was going for cannons, but I need the extra cash from all those villages and towns.

1520 - Isabella captures Turfan. Not shown here, but she has a lot of knights:

1525 - Magyar is captured.

1530 - Great Eng in Rome. Sleeps for now.

1535 - First oversea AI. He's the first to Liberalism and has a few techs on us. Open Borders and a couple resources trade:

Turfan is recaptured.

1550 - Map trading with Willem and we get the bonus. Didn't build a single boat so far:

1560 - Printing Press-->Chemistry. Isabella keeps sending medium sized stacks. This is the 4th of 5th:

1560 - Otrar captured.

1565 - A Great Scientist bulbs a big chunk of Chemistry. Isa captures Turfan AGAIN.

1575 - Chemistry-->Steel. Tech trades with Willem and SB:

1580 - Last AI. He's very backward, but has an old tech we are missing:

1590 - Samarqand falls and Kubilai is dead:

Isabella is sued for peace:

She still has Turfan, wich is kinda useless.
So, 270-years war to wipe Kubilai. Slowed down by Isabella's interference, but I'm happy anyway. Usually I have to stop at some point in medieval wars to rebuild the army and fix the economy. This time I managed to keep going and stay up there on the tech board with some trades.

Image limit is close, state of the world coming soon.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

State of the world:

Spoiler :

Tech board. Willem is the leader, but we are going to catch him up quickly:

Glance. Sitting Bull isn't friendly yet, but getting there:

Spain:

Continent:

Other continent. Little Willem is way more advanced than big Justinian. They aren't the bestest buddies, but still pleased at each other:

Cities. Muskets to fortify the spanish front and a lot of multipliers to start running away:

Victory conditions. Looks like Willem is planning a late culture win:

And war statistics:

The plan now is to wipe Isabella asap. I'm thinking about a cannons/cuirassiers war. Cuirassiers/spies isn't doable. I was focusing most of my EP's on Isabella, but have enough to revolt 3 or 4 cities max. Maybe a small, faster secondary stack.
The sheer amount of villages and towns in the empire is keeping our economy in good shape, so no need to fix anything. I may use that GE to rush Oxford.

I'm hoping for a spontaneous vassalization of SB. If not, he may be the next target after Isabella. At that point, we should have a strong tech lead and his CG longbows/muskets aren't going to be an issue.
When the continent is secure, I don't know. Space or war vs. backward Justinian.

About the difficulty and different approaches of this game:

Spoiler :

I agree 100% on the JC issue. An early rush made this game much easier, compared to those who didn't rush Rome. I was hoping for a game with different possible approaches, but obviously it wasn't the case.
Anyway, this was a test and I think we still learned a lot.
For the next game we may screw the "completely random" approach and maybe try some easier leader/map combo.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The leader (ram) is easy, the map isn't.

You don't HAVE to rush here though, it just makes it easier (I didn't and still won). If religions shake out differently rushing might even be suboptimal.

 

[Bleys]

I didnt rush Rome, I didnt rush anyone, yet I am finding the game rather easy. Of course, I have been playing Emperor exclusively lately, and in my Monarch days, Ramesses was my favorite leader, so maybe thats it. Anyway, here's a quickie report through 1250 AD:

Spoiler :

Settled in place, because I dont feel the Levee is as powerful an influence on Monarch difficulty. At Emperor, I would absolutely settle on the river, but I spent a LOT of time playing Monarch before moving up, and I know from that experience that the game is usually settled by the time Levee's become available.

I grabbed the Copper-Rice-Gold spot in the East for my first city, with the intention of making it my HE city. Second city went to the Horses-Rice, and I got on about my business of building up my army. I knew JC would attack me, Izzy would found Buddhism and spread it to me, and KK would also attack me once his Culture started rubbing up on my cities. The Barbs settled a couple solid spots, so I also took those, and built my 4th city in the 2-gem spot.

Being IND and having forests, I built some wonders as well. I started with Stonehenge, then the GW, Oracle (for MC), and the Mids. I wasnt planning an SE, but I built the Mids anyway because with Ramesses, I planned on AW and the Priests become goddly. Ramesses is one of the best Hybrid Economy leaders out there, he can play it so many ways. He can actually run a CE + Priest based SE in the same game, by leveraging the SPI trait. I will run Rep primarily, but the Mids open up so much more being SPI, I have already had a run of PS-Vass-Slave-Theo.

I also built the GL and NE in Thebes, the HE in Memphis, and the SoZ in my Gem City for cultural pressure on KK, and have UoS going up in Thebes and the AW going up in one of the Barb cities.

Anyway, sure enough JC attacked. I watched him carefully after he went WHEOOHs, and was ready for him. I had plenty of Axes and Chariots up, and a few Swords for my counter-attack. He threw a whole stack at me and then we had a cease fire. It gave me a GG, and I waited a while, then sure enough, he attacked again. I dont get it. He had nothing new. I had more units, putting Archers in all my cities in the meantime, and built the HE during the first war! Anyway, this time, I was finishing up Construction so I counter-attacked (after he suicided a whole stack of Praets and Axes again). I took one city from him, and gave him peace, because on the southern front, KK had gone into WHEOOH.

So, built a pile of Spears, and sent my Axes, Cats, and WCs, to which I was now adding HA's. After KK blunted a bunch of troops on my Spears, I just kept going on him, took 3 cities, and he Vassalized and gave me Drama and Music. Sweet. I left him 4 reasonable cities too, and he will be my Bullet Stopper for the rest of the game.

So here are some pics, big thing to look at is the Glance. I think my Diplomacy has gotten a LOT better playing Emperor, and it shows. It was a piece of cake for me to manipulate Izzy, stay even with SB, and be totally ready for JC and KK when they attacked. I think its because I look for WHEOOH more now than I used too. Its very important to understand this mechanic, and check it often.

Spoiler :

Thebes

HE City (First settler)

Norther area, including JC. I have 2 stacks poised to wipe him out shortly:

Southern cities, including the ones I took from KK. I should have grabbed KKs cap, and converted it to my Globe city, but figured it will be over by then.

Tech and Glance. My biggest competition for Lib is Izzy! I never should have bribed her into the war with Philo, then traded her Paper for Theo and a bunch of gold. Oh well, I may only end up with Nationalism from Lib, but thats OK.

So my plan is to take out JC next, totally out, and maybe trim SB down to size. I will likely go for Steel from Lib, but may have to settle for Nationalism, its getting late. I only bulbed 2 GS's, one for Philo and one for the first half of Education. I will probably keep KK at military tech parity, and use him to spearhead the assault on the other continent when we find it, with my Friendly Izzy as another thorn in their sides. SB will just do his thing, I suppose, poison my water, and what not, LOL.

I made one huge blunder not building the AP though. I figured Izzy or SB or even JC would build it for us Buddhists, and it got BIADL as Hindu. Oh well, that means I wont have trouble getting KK and Izzy to attack em.

Overall I had a fairly easy game so far. I attribute it to playing so much Emperor. Its amazing how much clearer the game is dropping down. You mentioned it in another thread TMIT, and boy you were right on. I have WAY more troops than I used to in my Monarch days, I was totally prepared for the AIs and their personalities, I was far more active in my checked the troublemakers for WHEOOHs (the BIGGEST factor for me in this game), etc. I really suggest folks try to play up as much as they can, even if they get beat over and over, then drop back and see how much you have improved. Its was eye opening, for sure. I understand now when Rusten says things like "Its only Immortal, and after Deity, it seems far too easy", or some paraphrase of that. This isnt quite the same, since I firmly believe the biggest jump in the game is Immortal to Deity, but to think I would be able to handle Monarch this easily . . . never would have believed it in my Prince days.

Anyway, very fun game. I am glad I got a few hours to play and post. Life is crazy right now, both my grandchildren are staying with me over the Holidays with their parents, one is 15 months, one is 13 months, so its quite busy around here, heh. Heres a pic of them, was taken earlier this summer. I have to get my daughter and son to upload more into my photo-bucket, and will post a more recent one when I can. They are adorable and a lot of fun:

Spoiler :

Cute eh, heh, I am very proud. Its rather odd too, the older one has dark, curley hair, and the purest blue eyes, and the younger one has the blondest hair you can, and deep, brown/hazel eyes. Smart as whips, too, I already taught em how to click a mouse!

 

[Joshua368]

Anyway, very fun game. I am glad I got a few hours to play and post. Life is crazy right now, both my grandchildren are staying with me over the Holidays with their parents, one is 15 months, one is 13 months, so its quite busy around here, heh. Heres a pic of them, was taken earlier this summer. I have to get my daughter and son to upload more into my photo-bucket, and will post a more recent one when I can. They are adorable and a lot of fun:

Spoiler :

Cute eh, heh, I am very proud. Its rather odd too, the older one has dark, curley hair, and the purest blue eyes, and the younger one has the blondest hair you can, and deep, brown/hazel eyes. Smart as whips, too, I already taught em how to click a mouse!

Future civvers, right there.

 

[vicawoo]

Spoiler :

After I rushed Julius Caesar and then Kublai, I extorted techs off Kublai for awhile (math with some research, masonry, some 3rd tech?). I left him his second city and one archer until he expanded to 3rd city inland ... after which I razed his second city. He was the only non buddhist on the continent, so nobody cared about my repeated declarations. His 3rd city did a nice job of blocking off Isabella to her NW.

Not believing I could get to monarchy in time, I settled the fur and gems and kept a settler waiting at the seafood city north of sitting bull. Alphabet to Isabella for iron working and some small tech. Eventually I did get monarchy with the help of 3 razed barbarian cities, and my economy started booming. The war chariots got put to good HR use. Great library in kakorum, hanging gardens (good for an over-expanded empire) then pyramids in Rome, that was suboptimal, but I could. Sitting bull did not have monarchy as late as 500 AD, so he was perfect horse archer fodder. He had a largish stack of swordsman in a city to his north near my border, so I baited with a worker, he sent all his swordsman, axe/horses killed all his swords, then I horse archer rushed him. He's down to a city on a tiny peninsula next to his former capital, and he gave me construction and feudalism for peace, now it's around 1000 AD. I've been annoyed by the lack of bridges for awhile. He's staying alive so I can further trade with isabella.

Teching semi-haphazardly. After I had rushed caesar, I went an early great scientist in my capital, academy there. Academy at my GP farm in kakorum. Great artist from music was used for a golden age to boost my horse archer rush. No bulbing because the AI techs too slow. My GP farms first great person was a spy, the amazing result of a few turns of poor micromanagement on my part in a city with great library and caste system scientists. I teched compass after printing press (so I can gauge the other continents tech) and delayed liberalism. The great spy seals the fate of Isabella. He's currently scouting out Isabella lands while I tech for cuirassiers.

 

[gcm4738]

Thanks to everyone for joining in on this one. I am learning a lot from this experience! Thanks to Ai Shizuka for taking up my challenge and setting it up for us.

This should technically be a spoiler, but I didn't want it to get lost and don't think it matter too much at this point in the game/thread or much anyway, since you will ...

Spoiler :

meet her early anyway...

oh all right - I will make it a spoiler

@ Bleys - Can you explain in a little more detail about your diplo manipulation of Izzy? How did this work? To what end? and what do you mean about KK being your "bullet stopper"? Were his cities between you and Iz?

Can anyone else give a rundown on their political strategy given these AI's and their locations?

Looking back on this one, with a more realistic attitude... (I was pretty frustrated last night after the second go through)... Other questions inside!

Spoiler :

I was naive the first time through. I panicked and threw away everything I've learned so far about war. I really got sucked in by the spi, ind trait. Ditched the early WC as an advantage and underestimated JC. Not KK so much - I expected him. But I play *as* JC so much, I haven't played against him much!, so I didn't know what he'd be like. This isn't a good excuse though - I know what a Praet can do and I should have been ready for it - especially second time round. I never checked WHEOOHRN - ever - not once - mistake! I made some use of the spiritual trait (switching back and forth from slavery, caste system) but didn't really get far enough in the game to really leverage it. I'm really weak on use of civics - especially the mid to late game ones.

TMIT and others - why do you say Ram is an "easy" leader. I could pick a number of different leaders *I* think would be easier - but obviously I've got something to learn here. Is it purely the SPI trait? (Already exposed my ignorance on that one! although I still think other traits are stronger) Mostly from civic swapping? Although Josh368 had some good info on how to use it - How did you (or could/would you) specifically use it in this game? Industrious I understand - it's decent enough assuming you've got the time to build some wonders...

Being on a continent with 5 civs while the other one has 2 - and one of those financial... this was going to be a tough map for me

And I actually do get the hybrid CE/SE thing. That's how my second game was turning out - it just made sense to me even though I hadn't thought of it in those terms.

Other things I learned... The lib race. I've never participated before. Might have to change that. Mostly: Why why why did I forget that ultimately this game is about war... either wipe them out, take some cities, or bait them into throwing troops at a superior defense - whatever. All the strategies include at least one of these elements. Mine didn't contain any of them! War didn't figure enough in my thinking in either of two runs. What did I learn in going to Prince - I was always thinking about it - 1) Am I prepared for everyone? 2) Who am I going to take next? It seems to me that once you find yourself thinking about the latter all the time and taking the former for granted it's time to move up a level! I lost that thinking in this game.

I just stood there like a schoolboy with my courage trickling down my leg. Doh! Next time.... *hehehe* Yes... next time I will get them...

Thanks for the help everyone - great learning experience! Yes I need to keep playing monarch and above for a while. Playing silly games like Immortal etc. was how I moved up to prince.

edit: actually a lot of answers to my questions are in the posts already. sorry - there's actually quite a lot of good info in this thread, some of which I hadn't read because I didn't want to spoil... so consider my questions as "prompts for further discussion" on particular topics. And perhaps to clarify an earlier comment I made. In my second game everyone was not "friendly" - I used that in the general sense - not the civ sense - they were "pleased" in the game. Which I now (sadly) know means absolute doo doo.

TMIT - Isn't it kind of early in Tampa???

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Thanks to everyone for joining in on this one. I am learning a lot from this experience! Thanks to Ai Shizuka for taking up my challenge and setting it up for us.

This should technically be a spoiler, but I didn't want it to get lost and don't think it matter too much at this point in the game/thread or much anyway, since you will ...

Spoiler :

meet her early anyway...

oh all right - I will make it a spoiler

@ Bleys - Can you explain in a little more detail about your diplo manipulation of Izzy? How did this work? To what end? and what do you mean about KK being your "bullet stopper"? Were his cities between you and Iz?

Can anyone else give a rundown on their political strategy given these AI's and their locations?

Looking back on this one, with a more realistic attitude... (I was pretty frustrated last night after the second go through)... Other questions inside!

Spoiler :

I was naive the first time through. I panicked and threw away everything I've learned so far about war. I really got sucked in by the spi, ind trait. Ditched the early WC as an advantage and underestimated JC. Not KK so much - I expected him. But I play *as* JC so much, I haven't played against him much!, so I didn't know what he'd be like. This isn't a good excuse though - I know what a Praet can do and I should have been ready for it - especially second time round. I never checked WHEOOHRN - ever - not once - mistake! I made some use of the spiritual trait (switching back and forth from slavery, caste system) but didn't really get far enough in the game to really leverage it. I'm really weak on use of civics - especially the mid to late game ones.

TMIT and others - why do you say Ram is an "easy" leader. I could pick a number of different leaders *I* think would be easier - but obviously I've got something to learn here. Is it purely the SPI trait? (Already exposed my ignorance on that one! although I still think other traits are stronger) Mostly from civic swapping? Industrious I understand - it's decent enough assuming you've got the time to build some wonders...

Being on a continent with 5 civs while the other one has 2 - and one of those financial... this was going to be a tough one for me

And I actually do get the hybrid CE/SE thing. That's how my second game was turning out - it just made sense to me even though I hadn't thought of it in those terms.

Other things I learned... The lib race. I've never participated before. Might have to change that. Mostly: Why why why did I forget that ultimately this game is about war... either wipe them out, take some cities, or bait them into throwing troops at a superior defense - whatever. All the strategies include at least one of these elements. Mine didn't contain any of them! War didn't figure enough in my thinking in either of two runs. What did I learn in going to Prince - I was always thinking about it - 1) Am I prepared for everyone? 2) Who am I going to take next? It seems to me that once you find yourself thinking about the latter all the time and taking the former for granted it's time to move up a level! I lost that thinking in this game.

I just stood there like a schoolboy with my courage trickling down my leg. Doh! Next time.... *hehehe* Yes... next time I will get them...

Thanks for the help everyone - great learning experience! Yes I need to keep playing monarch and above for a while. Playing silly games like Immortal etc. was how I moved up to prince.

Spoiler :

With 3 leaders that declare @ pleased (all but SB), you don't have a choice. You either try to get them to friendly, kill them, or bribe them into other wars so at least you're not their target.

Izzy is the easiest to get to pleased (likes theo), followed by KK (likes bureaucracy but is closer).

You want to initiate wars that start if you're going to be in them then so everyone doesn't bribe people vs you, but rather the other way around. That's all there is to it.

 

[gcm4738]

I'm back to playing some monarch solo games - continents, random leaders now

But if anyone's interested in doing another monarch game online give me a shout. I learn so much more when I'm doing it this way