Monasteries?

[bardolph]

So the science boost expires with scientific method?

 

[Norton II]

So the science boost expires with scientific method?

That's right, and IIRC you can't build them anymore after you research SM.

 

[bassist2119]

That's right, and IIRC you can't build them anymore after you research SM.

Absolutely correct, which is the biggest game flaw in that the only way to spread religion if you don't have a pre-existing monastary is to switch to OR, which is almost always a bad move, not to mention a massive waste of a turn or two in anarchy. This, more than anything else, has lead to a redundant, cookie-cutter approach in my games - there's always a rush to war shortly before SciMeth to beat up someone, take a city, pop-rush a missionary and send him to a science city for a monastary - even while it obsoletes in a turn or two. Application to real world also dictates that this shouldn't be the case - modern day America is certainly not running OR, but does have new and spreading religions.

 

[kristopherb]

i use them but prefer libarys but if city hasn't anything to do its monastrays

 

[KMadCandy]

they go obsolete with scientific method as far as you can't build them any more, and the 10% science goes away. in addition, if you were getting any gold/beakers from them due to the spiral/univ wonders, the monasteries don't provide those any more either. the wonders themselves don't go obsolete until computers, but since the monasteries are obsolete they don't count.

the ability to build missionaries out of that city stays (regardless of religious civic) which is the not-exactly-intuitive thing. the +2 culture stays, as usual for obsoleted buildings.

i hate the double-hit of SciM making monasteries and GLib go obsolete, ouch. partial consolation prize is the hope that i'll be first to physics for a free scientist. but you simply can't put off SciM too long even if the free scientist flew away ages ago. you have to know where the oil is. partly for intel (if you get to SciM before the bad guys do, you can see who'll have to expand to get some, and can prepare for it, perhaps go make a non-welcoming-committee and expand to likely locations yourself before they can etc). even builders like me want to make sure they have some! after going through one game without any oil (also no uranium, no horses, hooray for elephants--it was OCC, always war, so i was never going to get anything i didn't have in my borders), i never want to do that again!

 

[KMadCandy]

I suppose I didn't really think about the science boost. +10% is not a lot compared to other science buildings.

!!! *insert thomas dolby flashback* "Science!!!" can't be turning down science man! but i guess you're like, building those axemen are something *giggle*

I suppose it's nice to tuck away 1 or 2 monasteries before switching to Free Religion. However, it's rare that I switch to FR before Scientific Method. It's just too hard for me to give up the +25% construction bonus from OR.

that's a key difference between us. i often start games with a goal in mind (this one i'll go for peaceful-diplo, making friends), stuff like that, so i play more attention to the politics in those situations than you do by definition. which leads to entirely different gameplay styles, which is cool.

But, given the choice between +1 and getting rid of "religious heathen" modifiers, I'd rather take the happy face. My enemies can go to Hell (or Hades, Gehenna, Neraka, or wherever their "heathen religion" sends them when they die)

*giggle* see?

Yes, but if I'm running Theocracy, I'm building soldiers, not missionaries. However, I can see why it would be useful to bring missionaries along to war (to get culture running in conquered cities ASAP).

in an ideal war (altho i never have those), my platoon of ultimate doom and destruction include missionaries, an army corps of workers, and a great artist or two.

this was very interesting to me! i admit my playstyle is bizarre, particularly how mood-influence my games i am. i start a lot games with a goal in mind. so while all playstyles vary by definition, mine is pretty much at bell curve extremes, and sometimes switches between ends of the bell curve!

 

[Idlenessss]

of course the analysis is dependant on the civ, for example,a philosophical civ gets the univeristy at 1/2 price. Furthermore u need x amount of universities for oxford, so you would likely be doing the basic culture u need with lib and university if oxford is in your plans at all, monastary then becomes redundant. If your spiritual then temples are half price. again, monastary becomes unecessary and redundant. So the real issue with monastaries tends to be that you are simply getting the same stuff, culture and research, from other buildings that u were going to make anyway. SO ill only build monastaries in my research center city or all over the place if im goign cultural.

 

[PolskiKrol]

I usually build em in cities that have exaughsted everything else. They get obsolete really fast.

 

[LDeska]

Monasteries are very important. You should build them in all science cities... Scientific Method is far away in tech tree, so bonus from monasteries is very important.

 

[WrathRaptor]

I like to build them in science cities, and I build them for the missionary benefit. I have a pattern of building every monastery in each city found within the Great Wall wonder when I build it. Except lately I've been playing marathon games and have been able to build a ridiculous number of cities before finishing the Great Wall, so I'm limiting myself to about 4 or 5 cities which tend to be my religiously or scientifically active cities.

 

[vsipinen]

Speaking of which, Scientific Method should obsolete monestaries and grant a +20% science research boost.

As it stands, learning the Scientific Method slows down your ability to learn science... um...

Perhaps Scientific Method could increase the research bonus of the universities ? Or it could enable building of some new research boosting building ? I think that there definetily should be something to compensate the negative effects of it.

 

[Norton II]

Perhaps Scientific Method could increase the research bonus of the universities ? Or it could enable building of some new research boosting building ? I think that there definetily should be something to compensate the negative effects of it.

True. It's couinterintuitive, to say the least, for the discovery of scientific method to slow down your research.

 

[Yakk]

Scientific Method, add a National Project: Acadamic Tradition

Grants +25% research to all universities.

 

[bardolph]

I think enabling Communism, Physics, and Biology (and by extension, most modern technologies) is enough of a benefit for researching Scientific Method.

Historically, Scientific Method met with heavy resistance, and mostly from the religious community (which was, ironically, a very educated community). The obsolescence of Monasteries in Civ IV does a reasonable job of simulating this kind of dilemma.