[R&F] Mongolia First Look

[Siptah]

In other words, he was cruel, with no mercy and compasion. Good animations should be able to show it.

Let's wait until he declares war and denounces us. There is room for him to show his 'other side.'

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

In other words, he was cruel, with no mercy and compasion. Good animations should be able to show it.

Sounds to me like you're complaining both that the Civ VI leaders are too caricatured and that Genghis isn't caricatured enough.

 

[darko82]

Sounds to me like you're complaining both that the Civ VI leaders are too caricatured and that Genghis isn't caricatured enough.

Well, they could just copy and paste him from Civ V and I would be happy. He even smiled and still looked right. I think they messed him up here. Some leaders look good, others really odd. As if two different people worked on it. BTW, why did they change face of the Korean leader?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think the 5 one just seems more "right" to you because it's the one you're familiar with. To me the 5 GK looks and moves and sounds like he's everybody's happy buddy.

 

[darko82]

I think the 5 one just seems more "right" to you because it's the one you're familiar with. To me the 5 GK looks and moves and sounds like he's everybody's happy buddy.

I'm familiared with different ones. In Civ IV he also looks better. And I like this one a lot:

 

[Siptah]

I'm familiared with different ones. In Civ IV he also looks better. And I like this one a lot:

So I guess you disliked his appearance in civ III as well...

 

[SammyKhalifa]

So I guess you disliked his appearance in civ III as well...

To be fair, who didn't?

 

[Siptah]

To be fair, who didn't?

 

[evanaurora]

I'd rather call it "ruthless". "Evil" is such a subjective word.

Plus... I mean, pretty much every leader in the game is responsible for a fair number of what I would term "atrocities." From small-scale-- Qin Shi Huang being buried with actual humans!-- to larger impact-- Teddy Roosevelt being a major player in the expansion of US imperial power in the Pacific and Caribbean!-- it's hard to find a person who had any significant amount of power throughout history who didn't use that power for ill. (Even Gandhi was quite racist....)

I don't really subscribe to the idea that we can't ~judge history by the standards of today. If we can't learn from history and process it in a moral as well as pragmatic way there wouldn't be a point in studying it at all. (And I'm a thousand percent pro-"civ designers studying history and learning to recognize important political players who haven't necessarily been at the forefront of historical narratives," which can sometimes mean, yes, choosing leaders who might be judged more kindly by modern standards than they were by their peers!) But at the same time those historical narratives are part of the game and as such the powerful individuals being chosen are invariably going to have abused that power in a... less than ideal way, LOL.

Basically: while the terrifying idea of the Mongol Horde sweeping across the lands of Eurasia is certainly one that centuries later still has cultural clout, I'm not sure why that means Genghis Has To Be The Picture Of A Snarling Monster. As an individual, he was certainly much more complex than that. And the art style of civ 6 doesn't particularly lend itself to terror. Which is, I suppose, might be what the objections are really about.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

nobody knows for sure what he looked like, but to me for facial features it seems they used his statue:

 

[PhilBowles]

I think the 5 one just seems more "right" to you because it's the one you're familiar with. To me the 5 GK looks and moves and sounds like he's everybody's happy buddy.

I liked the fact that the Civ V incarnation behaved pretty much as the civ itself did - fiercely loyal if you weren't on the wrong side of him, and implacably opposed otherwise.

Having said that Genghis in Civ VI might be the best animation so far in my view, precisely because it's closer to the Civ V 'realism' than the caricatures of the earlier leaders. There does seem to have been an overall trend in most of the DLC civs to move away from extreme caricatures - it's still there in Alexander and to an extent in Amanitore, but very much toned down in Cyrus, Jadwiga, the SE Asian leaders and what we've seen of the expansion ones other than Wilhemina.

My guess would be that feedback indicated the caricatures were widely disliked (they already had to fix Roosevelt pre-release even if he does still look like a walrus) and so they've moved away from them. With luck there will be some cosmetic changes to existing leaders, though I don't think we've seem that from the streams.

 

[evanaurora]

There does seem to have been an overall trend in most of the DLC civs to move away from extreme caricatures - it's still there in Alexander and to an extent in Amanitore

Amanitore?????? It's subject to personal taste I suppose but I'm surprised nonetheless. I really don't see it. To me she looks more on the realistic side of things than Jadwiga or Jayavarman.

 

[darko82]

Well, Teddy was too fat - people complained. So they changed it. Frankly, GH is pretty short and fat, too. And people don't care? I don't know.

 

[PhilBowles]

Amanitore?????? It's subject to personal taste I suppose but I'm surprised nonetheless. I really don't see it. To me she looks more on the realistic side of things than Jadwiga or Jayavarman.

She's close, but the overweight aspect seems to have been pushed a bit far, as with Roosevelt. I'll grant the same is true of Jayavarman.

Well, Teddy was too fat - people complained. So they changed it.

He was too fat because that's the caricature - people complained because they didn't want a caricature. New Teddy is still too fat, but actually looks like a realistic human.

Frankly, GH is pretty short and fat, too. And people don't care? I don't know.

His proportions are realistic rather than caricatured. We can't know quite how true-to-life they are for that specific character, but insofar as the statues and paintings reflect him accurately he wasn't thin.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Well, Teddy was too fat - people complained. So they changed it. Frankly, GH is pretty short and fat, too. And people don't care? I don't know.

How tall could he have been? They rode short, squat horses.

 

[Morningcalm]

My only issue with Genghis as physically portrayed is his small waist in comparison to his broad shoulders--if they want to make him large, fine--just don't give him a ballerina's waist.

 

[darko82]

Ok, the animations in the first look video indicate that he will be waving his hands a lot. There is also a scene, in which he shows anger with his fist. That would imply that he will be portrayed in the game as some freaky character rather than clever, calm, serious, and self-confident.

In Civ V he was taller and slimmer.

 

[Kimiimaro]

BTW, why did they change face of the Korean leader?

Because people complained about her not looking Korean enough. A lot. That's why.

 

[PhilBowles]

Ok, the animations in the first look video indicate that he will be waving his hands a lot. There is also a scene, in which he shows anger with his fist. That would imply that he will be portrayed in the game as some freaky character rather than clever, calm, serious, and self-confident.

In Civ V he was taller and slimmer.

All the characters wave their hands a lot, and in fairness the association between restrained body language with being any of 'clever', 'serious' or 'self-confident' is a very Anglophone - and particularly English - construct, and likely a rather recent one even there. Most cultures are much more physically expressive, and what basis do we have for expecting Genghis to have been especially calm?

 

[empresskiova]

I like Genghis Khan... that neutral stance was well done. The eyebrow is good lol...

Alexander is a bit silly looking, but I’ve boiled it down to his teeth. Lol.