Monopolies balance questions
- Thread starter Zudegia
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Pangea has more than ebough opportunities for naval battles.
SpankmyMetroid
Prince
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- Jun 22, 2016
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- 320
Honestly I thought this thread would be about comparing %bonus monopolies (like whales) to tile bonus monopolies (like citrus). I don’t like to come on the forums and keep muckraking a mod I love and put many hours into, and understand how difficult balancing a complex game like this is... but to me it seems to me like tile monopolies are objectively better; they perform well in the early game where the global modifiers won’t be very strong. Let’s say you get 5/9 citrus up, that’s a flat 10 science, 2 per tile. You need an empire wide bonus of 100 science to match the science bonus (and correct me if I’m wrong, but science from trade routes isn’t affected, which accounts for a big chunk of early game science especially on high difficulties). You get even more benefit from connecting more citrus, 2 per tile, but more whales doesn’t do anything. I usually hook up my monopoly by the early-mid classical (depends on what techs are needed, or if I can’t afford to buy the needed tiles for some reason). My wide playstyles (which give higher science numbers, at the obvious expense of tech cost increase) don’t reach 100 science until early or mid medieval (that’s including trade routes). Tall would probably reach that value even more slowly. My point is, tile monopolies start to benefit the player much earlier than percentage, and we all know how important early growth and snowballing is. Obviously the percentage monopoly yields quickly eclipse tiles by reneissance, with the gap getting exponentially larger with each era. Is it really worth missing out on early bonuses for bigger late game bonuses? This isn’t a rhetorical question, I’m genuinely curious what other players with experience think and I’d love to be proven wrong. Just the fact that OP thinks whales are overpowered, which is counter to my argument is evidence that not everyone values them the same way I do. My gut says they’re not equal, but I could be wrong.
Another big deal is the correct tile monopolies can account for a large number of happiness needs. 4 science in a city in classical from working great food tiles means I don’t need to worry about science buildings until universities, at least. Whales does nothing to help needs, unfortunately. Now, it WOULD be cool if percentage monopolies decreased global needs like wonders (ex: forbidden palace); whales would decrease illiteracy needs by 10%, copper decreases distress by 10, etc. This is probably overpowered and leaves the ugly stepchildren of happiness and faith monopolies without a similar sort of benefit, so we’d be back to square one with imbalance. I wouldn’t know how to approach it myself. Maybe all monopolies don’t need to be considered equal?
Another big deal is the correct tile monopolies can account for a large number of happiness needs. 4 science in a city in classical from working great food tiles means I don’t need to worry about science buildings until universities, at least. Whales does nothing to help needs, unfortunately. Now, it WOULD be cool if percentage monopolies decreased global needs like wonders (ex: forbidden palace); whales would decrease illiteracy needs by 10%, copper decreases distress by 10, etc. This is probably overpowered and leaves the ugly stepchildren of happiness and faith monopolies without a similar sort of benefit, so we’d be back to square one with imbalance. I wouldn’t know how to approach it myself. Maybe all monopolies don’t need to be considered equal?
Actually, once you have a monopoly you get the bonus on the resource itself, not the improvement. So you get Citrus's 2 science even without a plantation.
The idea is the +2 science monopoly is on resources that have other weaknesses. The monopoly itself is great but you need to look at the entire luxury. for exmaple, whales get a point of science when improved, reducing that gap.
tu_79
Deity
We've actually balanced monopoly bonuses thrice. And the last time that was forced by a change on food, farms and happiness needs.
That's not to say one luxury can't be imbalanced, but even if that's the case, there are plenty of mechanics in the game to handle them.
I'm finding plantation luxuries on forest the hardest ones nowadays, usually citrus, for the difficulty of connecting them. Sugar on marsh has always been difficult, but sugar may spawn at other tiles without features, citrus on the other hand rarely spawns in grasslands. At least for me.
But forest have their own reward, it's easier to have camping resources which are very easy to connect, and makes herbalists more profitable. So, maybe citrus is balanced anyways.
That's not to say one luxury can't be imbalanced, but even if that's the case, there are plenty of mechanics in the game to handle them.
I'm finding plantation luxuries on forest the hardest ones nowadays, usually citrus, for the difficulty of connecting them. Sugar on marsh has always been difficult, but sugar may spawn at other tiles without features, citrus on the other hand rarely spawns in grasslands. At least for me.
But forest have their own reward, it's easier to have camping resources which are very easy to connect, and makes herbalists more profitable. So, maybe citrus is balanced anyways.
I did test moving forest chopping to calendar and it certainly seems to flow much better. The only thing I’d have to analyze more is how big of an influence does this have on pantheons (the plantation one especially, Goddess of Springtime I think?).
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