Monty Island (Deity Isolation)

[soundjata]

unfair India

 

[krikav]

I found an stronger fish done quick!

Spoiler Superfish :

No nasty worker @pop2, that worker has too many idle turns anyway.
Starving down for more overflow, not sure if thats needed or not. But 1F is needed in the bar!

Worker is out, and now we have time to grow to pop4 in 5 turns!

Spent 3 turns working the settler at 9 food/hammers per turn, one turn was used to work maximum food, filling up the bar abit.
Maybe there is room for improvement here? Delay settler whip another turn to get workboat quicker or fill upp with more food before the whip?

63 beakers in saling, 11 gold.
First fish done quick (worker @pop2, settler @pop3 and a 1pop whip) I was at 34 sailing and 14gold.

I also had 3/24 food in capital.
Here now there if 9/24 food, and a warrior at 6/15. There is also 2 overflow hammers comming in.

 

[krikav]

Nice, I was wondering if you were still playing this map. Seems like you've become stuck with the early opti

Yeah... Not alot of patience for the long game right now. Have started so many games and put them on hold ~T100-T150 lately.

 

[soundjata]

But there are other interesting openings.
How does settler first compare ?

 

[krikav]

Try it out!
Did anyone try something with marble?

 

[soundjata]

i've tried offgame
~40 turns: 2 cities (level 1) & 2 workers...
Will try in game asap

 

[krikav]

But there are other interesting openings.
How does settler first compare ?

I checked a "grow to size6 and 3pop whip a settler first" approach, it was ahead in commerce but behind abit compared to the superfish approach.

 

[soundjata]

Yes i believe what matters in our little game is power tiles

Before Granaries are built, whipping is inefficient production wise?

Mined Marble = Fish > Clam = Crab = Mined hill > Floodplains...

So settler opening is probably weaker in this regard

 

[soundjata]

Micro questions about religion foundation

Spoiler :

I've played several seeds of the game and it happened that Hinduism is sometimes founded by an AI T11 1600 BC instead of the player
Also, depending on the seed, I can research Polytheism either Turn 11 or Turn 12. The difference is 1 , where does that come from ?
Can we get a research bonus from an AI having researched Hindu while still taking the religion first
It would mean :
- scenario 1 : 2 AIs + Monty research Hindu T11, Monty gets +2 and the religion because of it.
- scenario 2 : 1 AI researches Hindu T11, Monty gets short 1 and that AI gets rewarded Hinduism.
Or am I getting crazy

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Soundjata AI religion founding question :

Did you always found on incence?
Did you always grow to pop2 asap? (Thereby getting another floodplain to work and another commerce).

If those things where equal, I see no reason that progress toward poly would differ from different runs. There is simply nothing that should affect it.
T11 Poly should be guaranteed.
What the other AIs does have no effect on your beaker rate unless you know them.

Impressive that some AI beat you to it! That could be some freak happening like an AI settling a second city very early, that is connected and that has access to some high commerce tile (oasis / coast).

 

[soundjata]

Spoiler Soundjata AI religion founding question :

Did you always found on incence?
Did you always grow to pop2 asap? (Thereby getting another floodplain to work and another commerce).

If those things where equal, I see no reason that progress toward poly would differ from different runs. There is simply nothing that should affect it.
T11 Poly should be guaranteed.
What the other AIs does have no effect on your beaker rate unless you know them.

Impressive that some AI beat you to it! That could be some freak happening like an AI settling a second city very early, that is connected and that has access to some high commerce tile (oasis / coast).

All Equal - 1 beaker difference
I'll have to study this turn by turn. Isn't there any bonus for researching a tech an unknown civ learnt ?

 

[soundjata]

^Exactly what I was about to report : the player gets rewarded an entirely free 3 for not selecting a tech during the first 4 turns

edit: and settler opening does not work with Poly :/

 

[krikav]

Not commiting tech the first 5 turns you must always do!!

 

[krikav]

Played abit longer now!

But first some final fine-tuning of the superfish-start.

Spoiler T101 :

Prior run, I utilized a spare turn to work 3floodplains+oasis to fill up the food bar abit more before the 2pop whip of the settler.
This time around, I instead worked mine+oasis+floodplains to stock up abit more on overflow.
The overflow then was enough to get a workboat out, this reduces the need for the worker to make a sharp turn back to chop out a boat.

Think the food in the bar T37 is the same, but the clam is already netted, so growth of the capital takes one turn less, moving it ahead just a tiny bit more.
Was delaying the workboat 1 turn and worked max food instead, because I planned to catch the forest with a worker... But I ended up just rolling the overflow onwards until pop2 instead, losing 3*2=6 natural hammers in the process. So this could probably be improved on too.
Second city slow built a worker with that chop at pop2, fish+marblemine gives it 10 production so thats 4 turns. That worker then chopped the forest 1E of second city, rushing out a third worker.
And wow, 3 workers instead of 2 makes things SO much easier.

Earlier, I thought I had to rush the lightouse quick to benefit max from the added food from the clam+crab, but whipping away floodplains makes that a fools errand, I lose as much as I gain.
The lake cannot be worked as city2 is too small to take the oasis.
So I delayed until monotheism for the whip.

On to a flying start.
Think it was finished T60 or T61.

A third city here was really nice, made it much easier to ensure all food where worked all the time.
Second city delayed it's granary for the longest time, instead slow-building settlers at pop2 working both mines.

Overseas expansion, the missionary is in the boat, but embarked this turn.

Changed to 4pop whips in capital. After Mono I went TW->Agri->Pot->AH->Priest->Writing.

Maybe I went too hard on expansion, workboats are lacking and workers have a hard time catching up, and reaching CoL takes time.

Contact, Pacal has built ToAr so I can do a trade mission! I also wonder if he is planning on using MoM himself...
He knows currency, so I could get Math+IW for CoL+Mono+25g. He also has dye and 9gpt up for sale.

The evil archer killed my woody2 fortified in the forest.
No galleys this time.
I blocked the path around the peaks preventing invasion for a long time, making a bunch of barb warriors wander around aimlessly on the eastern part of my island.

T102 edit:

Spoiler :

Met washington, could get traderoutes with him too.
Got some resource trades and got currency for CoL, I had to pay 110g but that was probably worth it.
The AIs seem very advanced, they know compass and MC and almost everything, not sure if I can get into any trading game... But once cities mature GLH will likely provide the tech I need.

 

[soundjata]

Oh noes I popped copper
T67

Spoiler :

It probably means I've been playing this game a little bit too much and the RNG wishes to resign

such an incredible string of luck :
1. win a fight at 22% chances
2. complete Teotihuacan warrior by working the brand new PH mine for a single turn
3. pop it like it's hot!

Apart from that, I have been experimenting with a no whip approach after GLH (T64)

Before that, all focus (and mucho whips) on the early settling of Texcoco the Silver island (T66)
No cheat , we check the island first with a worker @BornInCantaloup

Research after the wheel is what I've been mostly strugling with.

I've been experimenting with a complete skip of Agri / Pottery and AH in favor of a strict CoL beeline.
So Priesthood > Writing > CoL >>> get more fish online.

No whipping of city 1 and 2, it's very easy to build temples and libraries by just working mines.
Stay low on city count.

But now the game is trolling me. Beeline MC says it

 

[krikav]

@soundjata
I think I did a CoL rush at one point, but not w/o pottery.
Without agri+AH though.

Faster CoL means faster theoreticall traderoutes with the main island, so there is likely some interesting min/max strategy there!
T66 silver island sounds really nice! Getting the island and 4 cities asap after GLH means alot.

 

[soundjata]

@krikav i'm aiming for city 4 = fish & clam island.
I want to stay lean (and tall) for quicker research. Monty island is uncontested

edit : in this context : workers are busy doing nothing but roads

 

[krikav]

I played on abit to around 1AD iirc... Then I jumped game and started BOTM236 instead.
WIll likely return to this later again... So much fun to explore this island like a puzzle.

 

[soundjata]

T87 Islands and Code of Laws...

Spoiler :

Tenochtitlan does not have any infrastructure apart from a couple of lighthouses
Teotihuacan has Library + Temple and some extra overflow (copper )

 

[krikav]

I think if you want to optimize for early CoL, you better have a settler and a missionary on that iron/rice/oasis spot ready to run specialist for two turns and pop borders. That would unlock overseas forreign traderoutes which is the prize we are looking for.
I too doubt that granaryless approach is worth it but that all depends... Earlier contact, earlier trades.. Maybe some good tech trade comes up.
Pacal had dye for me right away, maybe he have something else too.

Btw... the western helper city (can share clam, sheep, marble) is likely not worth it until biology.
Capital is very greedy...
If that spot is to be settled, it should be settled way early when happycap is a big problem.