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MOO2: What is an optimal Guardian fleet

Discussion in 'Other Civ-Related Games' started by Tristan_C, Mar 26, 2007.

  1. Murky

    Murky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
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    Location:
    The Milky Way Galaxy
    Telepathic works great against the AI because they have relatively weak race picks. Most are feudal or dictatorship so that's going to slow them down a lot. They do a poor job of designing ships and aren't good at tactical combat.

    Telepathic in multiplayer is typically suicide. Your opponent will just out colonize, out grow, out tech and ultimately beat you. About the only way it works is with a blitzing race pick where you don't need much tech or growth. Rebellions can work in your favor because the planet is easy to retake. Each time you retake the colony you have another chance at gaining another tech.
     
  2. aaglo

    aaglo Furioso!

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    Planet Baal
    I know how not to kill guardian with two destroyers and two cruisers:

    Select the setting where ship initiatives are effective, then the guardian will destroy atleast two of your cruisers right away.
     
  3. knigh+

    knigh+ .

    Joined:
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    Shipless Anchor
    I thought something was fishy about that. I always play with ship initiative, I guess that's why I need larger fleets than those suggested in this thread.
     
  4. civvver

    civvver Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
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    well this is like a 10 year old necro, but I was googling guardian strats and this came up first.

    First class 5 shields block 5 dmg, hence the name, but yes it blocks 8 overall cus of hard shields. That effectively means you cannot use mass drivers or fusion beams, as heavys only do 9 dmg. You need to do 1725 dmg to the guardian in one salvo to kill it, to keep things simple we'll say one salvo. Otherwise you have to factor in shield regen and the repair guy, math gets complex. You don't need a super strong computer if you also use battle scanners, so like pysotronic +75 plus scanners +50 would get you there. Heavy neutron blasters will do up to 18 dmg, minus the shields, you will need approx 172 of them to kill guardian in one shot.

    1450 rps to get computer and battle scanners. 1300 to get neutron blasters. You will surely need battle pods to get this many weapons on a ship, 480 rps to get those. That's only 3230 rps.

    Then build stuff. I don't remember the base space on a battleship or how many weapons they can hold and I can't find spreadsheets! You probably need something like 12-15 battleships here. So the question is for a production race like uni/tolerant/+1 prod is this more easily achievable than the emg missile strat which requires four times as many rps? I think it very well might be.
     
  5. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
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    I'd say you'll need more like 16-18 BB's of this type (maybe less with some lucky shots, dunno) and if you play 150i mode, maybe add 1-2 BB's.
    BB's with your proposed tech can fit 16 Hv Neutron Blasters, and because you need so many ships and they are really slow (only nuclear drive with that 3230 RP), you'll be firing into 3 of the Guardian's shield facings and some ships from quite far away on first round (dissipation).

    As to your question which race is faster, it can be tested. Tech race DemoLithArti that goes EMG Mercs only needs a decent home system so is better of in a small galaxy (Guardian is closer, less Outposts needed), while the UniTolP+1 is probably better of in a medium galaxy (or larger?) so it has better chances to find some decent rocks to expand to, to get that production advantage.
    Ofc when its about minimum fleet, emg mercs win hands down since you only need 8 destroyers or 2 cruisers with a few frigates, depending on ship layout, see other thread on this forum also:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-guardian.494236/
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018 at 5:34 AM
  6. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    .. ok played a few combats against Guardian with your paper tiger. :)
    I did research fusion drive for some improved mobility (so 3230 + 250 = 3480 RP)
    And Space Academy for Regular Crews (3480 + 150 = 3630 RP)
    Tritanium armor does not matter since Guardian can still one-shot such ships (did not use r.hull, it could matter then, however Deuterium Cells might be needed in some cases if closest star to Orion is >4pc [also add another 250 RP then]).

    No luck with 15 ships so far, 16 can be done but its unreliable and need to get lucky with some good shots on drive and depends on which ships Guardian targets its Plasma Torps in 3rd round. 17 ships seems more safe (with Green crews even 18 ships don't cut it,, also it seems with Green crews the Guardian spreads his Torps to two ships on opening round, while with Regular crews 2 Torps are fired at 1 BB, which is significant difference).
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018 at 8:12 AM
  7. civvver

    civvver Chieftain

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    so we're in the ballpark. The question really is for a production empire can they tech the necessary stuff for emg mercs or is less tech and way more battleships quicker? Battleships build in like 10 turns on rich planets for uni/tol/+1p. Surely depends on galaxy size.
     
  8. Rocco.40

    Rocco.40 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
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    Just finished a game on medium size classic map with 1 opponent (avg diff, avg tech start) and took me 180 turns to do it with 18 BB, some inefficiencies in this run (due to own play but also small quarrel with Sakkra opponent) but with the competing strategy it can be done about 70 turns faster. :)
    I guess UniTol can be faster than the T180 that i did using Soils and Robo's techs, in which case you need another 1130 RP, but I doubt it will be enough to close the gap.

    (18 BB * 1400 = 25.200 PP vs 9 DD * 200 = 1800 PP, or 14x as much production needed to build those ships.)

    EDIT: Did another run on new medium classic map, with soils/robo's (which allows for the helpful spaceport) this time and overall much more tight play, and took the Guardian down By T130. (201 pop at this point on 18 colonies)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018 at 8:35 AM

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