[MoO] How to destroy the Guardian in the new ICEMOD
- Thread starter Rocco.40
- Start date
Markus Ramikin
Justicar
Feel free to look 
I forgot to include the savegame in the last post, done that now.
I forgot to include the savegame in the last post, done that now.
Markus Ramikin
Justicar
Haha, really? I had set up a careful situation using the cloak and Wait button, with a precisely calculated number of DS aimed at the Fortress while the rest waited for ships to uncloak. But I guess since Auto will take out the Fortress first, just like you need to, and once the Fighters are out losses don't matter much, that makes sense.
Assuming you still skipped round 1 and waited round 2 before hitting A. And didn't add the extra ships waiting at Orion.
Assuming you still skipped round 1 and waited round 2 before hitting A. And didn't add the extra ships waiting at Orion.
Rocco.40
King
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2015
- Messages
- 650
ok to be more precise "partial auto":
launched everyting at Fortress at the end of round 2, not moving the Doom Stars forward and then auto.
if you go full auto you lose because one of the MAJOR flaws of auto combat is that it moves all Doom Stars forward towards the enemy, causing DS's to take many big hits right in the face.
launched everyting at Fortress at the end of round 2, not moving the Doom Stars forward and then auto.
if you go full auto you lose because one of the MAJOR flaws of auto combat is that it moves all Doom Stars forward towards the enemy, causing DS's to take many big hits right in the face.
Markus Ramikin
Justicar
Ah.
My tactical moves did put me right next to the enemy, but that was to take advantage of the instant attacks when launching point blank. I'm sure if I put Damper Fields back on and brought enough ships, I could have a "first strike" clean victory just like with Beams, which is actually kinda cool for carrier ships.
(I really like what you did with the Phasing Cloak, I really do.)
My tactical moves did put me right next to the enemy, but that was to take advantage of the instant attacks when launching point blank. I'm sure if I put Damper Fields back on and brought enough ships, I could have a "first strike" clean victory just like with Beams, which is actually kinda cool for carrier ships.
(I really like what you did with the Phasing Cloak, I really do.)
Markus Ramikin
Justicar
Checked out Proton Torpedoes vs Orion. I brought 16 BBs with Augs, Bscanner, Bpods and Heavy Armor. As I had traded for Megafluxers, I crammed in 5 Proton Torpedoes in each, level 2 refinement (all the way to Interphase Drive), Enveloping, ECCM, Overloaded.
I also had Weapon and Ordnance officers.
With only Neutron Scanners, I had an abysmal miss rate. On one test, 11 BBs firing killed the Orion; on two more, round 1 didn't do it and I had to wait out the torpedo recharge and finish with surviving ships.
After researching Sensors, 5 ships did the job (not counting 2 which died because I hadn't researched for initiative).
Without the officers, pre-Sensors the 16 ships weren't enough, afterwards around 8 would do the job.
Savegame - is 2 turns or so before researching Sensors, so you can easily compare before and after.
____________________________________
To be sure, the only way to lower enemy Missile Defense is the ECCM mod and researching Tachyon Scanners/Neutron Scanners/Sensors? Computers or other tech don't help?
Also, these different scanners don't stack, do they? If I research Sensors, I don't get anything more for having earlier techs?
I also had Weapon and Ordnance officers.
With only Neutron Scanners, I had an abysmal miss rate. On one test, 11 BBs firing killed the Orion; on two more, round 1 didn't do it and I had to wait out the torpedo recharge and finish with surviving ships.
After researching Sensors, 5 ships did the job (not counting 2 which died because I hadn't researched for initiative).
Without the officers, pre-Sensors the 16 ships weren't enough, afterwards around 8 would do the job.
Savegame - is 2 turns or so before researching Sensors, so you can easily compare before and after.
____________________________________
To be sure, the only way to lower enemy Missile Defense is the ECCM mod and researching Tachyon Scanners/Neutron Scanners/Sensors? Computers or other tech don't help?
Also, these different scanners don't stack, do they? If I research Sensors, I don't get anything more for having earlier techs?
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Markus Ramikin
Justicar
Killed Antares with Torpedoes.
I think you're going to like this one, Rocco:
Torpedo savegames
This contains the above Guardian savegame, a fleet engagement (an easy one, but in case you wanted a quick look at a battle), and 3 different Antares attacks:
* 4 Doom Stars with Plasma Torpedoes (2 more available if you want them)
* 6 Doom Stars with Proton Torpedoes (3 more waiting)
* 9 Doom Stars with Anti-Matter Torpedoes (3 more waiting)
All turn 415 or so, so there are 3 Harbingers.
All forces are sufficient, but I dare you to claim you won these by Auto
Observations: Antarans are exceptionally vulnerable to torpedoes. Enveloping hurts them with no shields, of course, but also no Lightning Field, and their missile defense blows - Sensors alone remove it, ECCM is not even needed.
Perhaps it would make sense to install a Wide Jammer on the Fortress, or the Harbinger since the Fortress seems to lack room? Especially if you do decide to up torpedoes.
I think you're going to like this one, Rocco:
Torpedo savegames
This contains the above Guardian savegame, a fleet engagement (an easy one, but in case you wanted a quick look at a battle), and 3 different Antares attacks:
* 4 Doom Stars with Plasma Torpedoes (2 more available if you want them)
* 6 Doom Stars with Proton Torpedoes (3 more waiting)
* 9 Doom Stars with Anti-Matter Torpedoes (3 more waiting)
All turn 415 or so, so there are 3 Harbingers.
All forces are sufficient, but I dare you to claim you won these by Auto
Observations: Antarans are exceptionally vulnerable to torpedoes. Enveloping hurts them with no shields, of course, but also no Lightning Field, and their missile defense blows - Sensors alone remove it, ECCM is not even needed.
Perhaps it would make sense to install a Wide Jammer on the Fortress, or the Harbinger since the Fortress seems to lack room? Especially if you do decide to up torpedoes.
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neilkaz
King
Not a minimal fleet used here according to research time, but coming off of a very nice start with prompt early war wins to further my expansion, I have just killed the Guardian on T199pw! I'd not thought this possible prior to T200.
My fleet was 5 BB's as follows. A-Armor and RHulls and Battle Pods and Fast Missile Racks. Weapons are 9 MIRV Zeons in the upper weapons bays and 4 of same but with EMG in some of the lower bays. I also had a +15 ordnance leader. I had Neutron Scanner tech to help my missiles. My drive was A-M.
Testing with just 3 of these BB and by removing my leader results in a kill as well! Keeping the leader and using only 2 of these BB didn't provide enough fire power for the kill.
I have new respect for Fast Missile Racks, a tech not normally in my IceX research plans since they take up 50 space and since I want Heavy Armor as much of my defense is based on hard to destroy SB's and it is also very useful to me for later beams ships that plan to hang around in battle for many turns.
My fleet was 5 BB's as follows. A-Armor and RHulls and Battle Pods and Fast Missile Racks. Weapons are 9 MIRV Zeons in the upper weapons bays and 4 of same but with EMG in some of the lower bays. I also had a +15 ordnance leader. I had Neutron Scanner tech to help my missiles. My drive was A-M.
Testing with just 3 of these BB and by removing my leader results in a kill as well! Keeping the leader and using only 2 of these BB didn't provide enough fire power for the kill.
I have new respect for Fast Missile Racks, a tech not normally in my IceX research plans since they take up 50 space and since I want Heavy Armor as much of my defense is based on hard to destroy SB's and it is also very useful to me for later beams ships that plan to hang around in battle for many turns.
Markus Ramikin
Justicar
Code of Prejudice
Imperial Blessing
Sigil of Monodominance
Cough.
I mean, Achillies, Bpods, HEF, HX, PCloak.
Markus Ramikin
Justicar
After you nerfed AF, maybe. This was in 10n or something around there, and I had 2 AF Disrupters.
neilkaz
King
Maybe my memory is faulty, but in 18a this guy seems somewhat easier to kill than 3 years ago. Rocco, if you have time, please post a pic with current Guardian stats. Thx .. neilkaz ..
neilkaz
King
OK I'll have to see when I can make going after it, more of a priority now. With that much beam defense, I can see that I really need a good comp if using beams unless I go Maulers that always hit.
In one of my very recent games a strong AI took Orion somewhere about T258pw. I was involved in a war and couldn't spare the ships to go to Orion.
In one of my very recent games a strong AI took Orion somewhere about T258pw. I was involved in a war and couldn't spare the ships to go to Orion.
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I have my own min fleet but maybe i have too much tech?. This was on ice x. turn 248 . I had 6 BBs and two Missile cruisers which were only there to take hits, as my missile tech was useless against the guardian. My hero was Kronos and this was the only fleet hero i had the whole game, in spite of the fact i was Charismatic. However, if it wasn't for his Nav skill at +2 i would not have stood a chance. So my ships were 2 of the newer, and 4 of the slighty older versions. They had Graviton beams and Achilles,HEF, BS, and Structural Anaylyzer , but only class 3 shields and antimatter drive. I will post the screenshots.
My cruisers went straight for the monster and i waited with the B.B.s so that i could hit the same shield, but it didn't matter. I hit for only 8 or 4 points and at least half my shots missed. This didn't look good. But i get ahead of myself. The Guardian moved first and took out one cruiser with beams and lobbed it's plasma at one of the new B.B.s. The victim went first but it survived the hit without engine damage. He moved point blank against the Beast, unleashed an alpha strike and blew himself up to bring down a shield. The next ship made a critical hit that brought down all the shields and the third ship blew the Guardian to Kingdom come. Just as stupid post script. I had three of the New versions with two more cruisers parked 1 turn away and i didn't notice. Not that it mattered in this case but i then when to war right away and those ships were just there doing nothing for about 15 turns. The only reason i even noticed them was because i saved the turn for the eventual write up and when i went to do the screen shot...... ugh. Coming next, a slightly bigger fleet but way worse tech.
My cruisers went straight for the monster and i waited with the B.B.s so that i could hit the same shield, but it didn't matter. I hit for only 8 or 4 points and at least half my shots missed. This didn't look good. But i get ahead of myself. The Guardian moved first and took out one cruiser with beams and lobbed it's plasma at one of the new B.B.s. The victim went first but it survived the hit without engine damage. He moved point blank against the Beast, unleashed an alpha strike and blew himself up to bring down a shield. The next ship made a critical hit that brought down all the shields and the third ship blew the Guardian to Kingdom come. Just as stupid post script. I had three of the New versions with two more cruisers parked 1 turn away and i didn't notice. Not that it mattered in this case but i then when to war right away and those ships were just there doing nothing for about 15 turns. The only reason i even noticed them was because i saved the turn for the eventual write up and when i went to do the screen shot...... ugh. Coming next, a slightly bigger fleet but way worse tech.
