Moonraker

I hoped I am the after you ;-)

I think finishing PP on 0% slider for 7 turns hears great, should get some money for upgrade.

but can't check the save now.

I'm not sure who is next. The upgrade cash is very necessary as each War Elephant costs 200:gold: to upgrade to Cavalry. Then we also have our city defenders ( :p ) to consider. We have a bunch of warriors out there still! On that note, very interesting fact I was unaware of, upgrading a GG unit costs 0:gold:.
 
I'm not sure who is next. The upgrade cash is very necessary as each War Elephant costs 200:gold: to upgrade to Cavalry. Then we also have our city defenders ( :p ) to consider. We have a bunch of warriors out there still! On that note, very interesting fact I was unaware of, upgrading a GG unit costs 0:gold:.

there is almost never need to upgrade MP units... it's not unusual for me to have warriors as "main defense" of old cities in modern era ;-)

Diplomacy, active warfare (pushing on enemy cities) should solve the need of defense in some areas.

You can usually judge where the AI will send troops, redirect modern forces, upgrade on demand.

So no need for general upgrade everywhere ;-)
 
Crossposts!

Thanks for posting the save woopdeedoo,

We can sign a Defensive Pact with Russia now! :D I'd just get it done and roll over the variant requirement, even if we cancel the deal at the first opportunity.

As outlined in #297, we can to trade away our Gems to Russia (7:gold:/turn) and a few turns later import Gems from America. Cancel the Russia deal in 10 Turns, and 'bingo', we've got our two sources of Gems.

I'm not sure why we can't trade for Economics with Roosevelt, or at least have him 'not' make Economics an available trade to us.

'Yes' - vranasm's up next, then FiveRings.
 
Of course - I thought that we'd put a turn into Printing Press (it's just beaker overflow from the last turn). :smoke:
 
So, I would like to play the remaining few turns today. I do think that a swap into Free Religion may be worth it. Other civic swaps? Free speech? Vassalage? HR? Advise "the grasshopper" (that's me)!!!
 
My general view is that we should sign the Defensive Pact with Catherine, and do the Gems deals as I've outlined just to roll over two of our variants.

I'm OK to take out Churchill at some point in the short-medium term, but wonder if attacking any of the the tribes on the other continent is worth it, and maybe we just go straight after the space win with as little time and effort spent on warfare as reasonably possible. Even if we take this approach, I'd not discount the possibility that Japan might try a disruptive DoW on us ... so we might need defenders!!! :eek: ... or at least some anti-invasion strategy.

Organised Religion has served us pretty well, and I'd be happy enough to stick with it. My proposal of swapping into Hereditary Rule and Free Religion was based on trying to appease Catherine to the point where she'd sign a Defensive Pact - but little did I know that she's already at the negotiating table with it. I'd be fine to swap into Caste for a while and put a concerted effort into getting out a few :gp:s from our big food cities such as Berlin and London.
 
I can't see the save right now, so I'll just ask the questions that come to my mind while reading your posts:
1. Why do we assume that Roose will cancel his 'gem' trade with whomever he has it to offer it to us? Do we intend to make everybody cancel trade with Roose to get to this, and what makes us reasonably sure that everybody else will agree to this?
2. What will happen if the diplo variant comes into play, while we are building the spaceship, ie we come to UN elections? It seems that even if we win diplo, we lose the game. So we need to build the ship faster than anybody else could build the UN, right?
 
@FR
we should have enough power to be voted SecGen and then we just don't choose diplo victory ;-)

We will have around 30 cities that's like 3x the 2nd AI? We surely have to have enough power to block every vote.
More dangerous could be culture victory actually, since I remember reading that it's actually the only condition which is hardcoded for AI's to follow ;-).

@Cam
Wouldn't be it boring gameplay? you know real space race involves setting cities on wealth+research and then just pressing enter for awhile, then queue up parts and then just press end turn more ;-).

@Team

we probably should discuss what to tech after PP, not in the 1 tech outlook but general outlook.
There are basically 2 important pathways for us
1) AL for factories
2) Biology for farms

each has it's merits and honestly I am absolutely not sure which one to take ;-).
We have mixed land so it isn't clearcut at all.
We need obviously both "soon", but the devil is usually in the order.
 
Surprise! Another crosspost!

FiveRings,

He's not apparently trading his Gems to anyone as far as I can tell from the Diplomatic screens. He won't put Gems on the negotiating table with us because we already have our own source (being the ones that we popped by Prague), so we have to get rid of our own first.

vranasm,

I guess the challenge will be to win as quickly as possible. If we get attacked by someone (most likely a very understrength Japan), I guess that we can look at a bit of off-shore mayhem for a bit of a diversion, but we run a risk of tripping Diplo' if we've also knocked England out and started keeping enemy cities and taking vassals. I do see what you're saying though.

As far as tech' path, I have my preference, but I'll leave that one to the roster too.
 
Ok. So I played 3 turns and am handing the game over now. Good News!! From Russia with Love!

russianlove.png


And Gems AWAY!!!

cathygems.png


No WAIT!!! I want American Gems!!!

roosygems.png


Some units are upgraded but the cost is high per unit so it is going slow. I really want us to wipe Churchill off the face of our planet... Jus' sayin'...
 

Attachments

guys I forgot something ;-).

I got into beta stress test of SW:TOR, so if the game will run (as I hope) then I won't have time to look at the save until monday.

So if you want someone else take the TS over weekend... feel free to do so.
 
OK, thanks for finishing off the turnset woopdeedoo! :)

Just in terms of vranasm's request for a swap due to "SW:TOR" (Star Wars, The Old Republic?), my personal agenda's also filling until mid-December, and I'd prefer to take another turnset now and maybe skip one during the coming weeks.

In terms of the upcoming 10-15 turns, I guess the objective is a simple one ... take out England:

I thought that we'd need more time to get our units together, but I'm actually pretty satisfied with what we've got on hand. Basic plan would be to take the Iron Mine out of the equation so he's left with whatever units he's got right now, plus Longbows and Horse Archers. I'd keep every city except maybe Coventry, which is 50-50 raze-keep to me. Probably I'd go south and take Nottingham first. Given our numerous Catapults, I'd be inclined to use a fair amount of siege rather than risk highly promoted Horseback units if odds weren't great. Given he's a Protective leader, I'm still wary about throwing Cavalry at these cities without any siege support.

Civics-wise I'd be happy to go into Caste at the conclusion of the Golden Age and shoot for a few more Great Scientists for merging into Prague, or maybe a Great Merchant for a trade mission? The other tech' that I'd propose we go after immediately is Economics (2 turns at 60%) for the extra :traderoute: from Free Market. More's the point, I'd be prepared to gift it to Catherine just to dislodge her out of Mercantilism if we can't get a decent deal out of her for Economics.

Aside from Economics, I'd propose we then complete Printing Press, then Chemistry. I guess we've got a good shot at the free Great Scientist out of Physics while Biology's great for growth, so Scientific Method should probably be up after Chemistry.

Generally things are going well, but there are a few funny things that I'd fix - a couple being; Shanghai should be building a Bank rather than a Longbow, while Berlin's got a 'stop growth' on it for no apparent reason. Unit pumps probably should focus on Cavalry for either an invasion or homeland protection depending on which way we go, while commerce sites could possibly look at Banks if we were to go after Wall Street eventually in Shanghai. I think that we can include some Observatories in a few more of our better production sites in preparation for Laboratories; Steel Jaw Guy and Berlin (also Scientist slot), and maybe Le Chiffre and Zurich. Even our #1 unit pump in Monte Carlo might build a spaceship part one day, but there's no hurry on that one.

I'm happy to press on with the proposed settlement plan earlier agreed upon. Not exactly sure which tile in the jungle we want to found our city on around there however; one tile north of the City Ruins? I don't think that this city can do too much but get up basic infrastructure and pump out a few land units or build Wealth.

Again, I hope it's OK if I cut in now and then not play again for a couple of weeks.
 
yeah it is really old republic MMO. Actually it should be open for me in 18 minutes :-D

got some time to check the save thanks to this.

There is couple of things about citizen management I don't really like. At some cities we could work cottages instead of specs.
At some cities we could switch into farms to grow next turn, in 2 turns instead of basically stalling.
The stop growth at Munich and Berlin is very bad.
Don't understand the scientist in Prague

I write it down not for Cam, since I have feeling he will fix it, but for woop to know what is bad and improve on citizen management.

Cologne should get granary

Other then that... Looks good. maybe... we really should switch into wealth and research builds ;-)

from what i saw the time for US is almost there... even if it is anti-synergic with caste :-(
 
hmm tried to switch into US+FS and we gained around 60 gold of income at 0% slider
and the production was boosted too.
 
vran,

Thanks again for your comments - esp. in light of SW:TOR beta test!

I'm fine to make a big civics change over to;

Universal Suffrage - Free Speech - Caste System - Free Market - Organised Religion

... if the roster wants.

Obviously it's a bit difficult to do these things in a Golden Age as all of those Towns are getting 2:hammers: all of a sudden and cottaged cities perform better than food-focused cities, but I'm happy to go along with it. If we find that post-Golden Age that things aren't 'so rosy', then we can smoothly switch back ('yay' for Spiritual!). I suppose the thing is that we only have three or four well cottaged cities, so I'm a bit surprised that Uni' Suff' + Free Speech work well for us.

I'd really like to play soon (sorry, it's just that I've got spiraling real-life pressures for the next two weeks), so if FiveRings and woopdeedoo have comments, suggestions, etc., that'd be great.

Generally though, as before I'll essentially focus on dealing with England, and then the rest of you can work out whether we'll go attacking one or more of the three rivals on the other continent, or whether we just tech' it out and blast off. I can't see myself getting past Economics, Printing Press, and Chemistry anyway.

Are we all OK to gift Catherine the Economics technology and bribe her into Free Market seeing that she won't go back to a Decentralised economy?

Which spot in the jungle does everyone like?​
 
well if we would be in BtS I could tell you the number of towns just from the look into statistics, we are not.

I tried to calculate the number of towns and it looks like we have around 10-12 towns, with around 2-3 in next 5 turns and around 5 more in next 16 turns...

there is still a lot of ungrown cottages, really wonder if we shouldn't make detour for Demo, but that would involve Constitution too, which both are pretty expensive techs.

I am absolutely content how you decide about the questions you laid out. Giving away Economics is absolutely fine and needed.
Choose whatever spot in the jungle that can be irrigated... maybe wait for workers to do the work though. I saw in the 2x banan east city (is it Munich?) that there is still jungled grassland hill....

One note about windmills... Prague could get some imo ;-) and generally commerce cities should be slowly switched into windmills.

One another note about Beijing... there is still that flood plains farm that could be changed to cottage and couple other tiles could use look at ;-)
 
Sorry guys: a working meeting as per initial info turned into a program building workshop with such a tussle around funding-related issues that I felt exausted and couldn't make myself switch on the comp yesterday evening ...
I am OK with Cam going along the proposed track but would like to understand for sure our interest in getting Cath away from mercantilism ie whether it is only related to getting trade with her - which is what I can think of - or something else as well. And I don't put in the commas into my text as the button stopped working.
 
mercantilism = no trade routes with us
if we give her economics, there is pretty high chance she will switch into free market = big fat intercontinental trade routes for us.
 
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