You seem to forget that these guys have been taken from their home countries, flown halfway around the world, put into a military prison without trial, and with no apparent likelihood of them ever leaving Guantanamo. I don't know about you, but I would definitely feel suicidal if that's the situation I was in.
More 'Acts of War against the U.S'
- Thread starter bathsheba666
- Start date
YNCS said:
Yea yea, not all three on the same night. If this was as a prevelant a thought as you seem to suggest it would have happened more randomly. I concede it could be a reason. Mind you though, most of these people were captured in firefights. These are generally harder men than most.
RedWolf
Deity
Tulkas12 said:
I agree with you on this one.
I think the other reasons are likely the motivation for deciding to end their lives... but the timing (all 3 together) was likely to make a statement...
blackheart
unenlightened
Tulkas12 said:
Who's to say it isn't going to happen more? And really, give me some proof that most of these men were captured in firefights, because apparently the government nor the military want to disclose why they're there.
blackheart said:
Its been 5 years and there conditions are actually better than ever. I do understand they are removed from their homes. 5 years and 3 in one night? Please. There would have been more, they've tried hunger strikes. Aren't hunger strikes considered a very political action?
You can't prove where they are from either. Its pointless to argue this.
They were co-ordinating a hunger strike, so I don't think there's much doubt that they also co-ordinated their suicides. However, it seems to me that the likely reason for this would be that it's easier to die together than alone, and possibly that a single suicide would have caused the guards to take drastic measures to prevent more (as I'm sure they're doing now). I find it highly unlikely that their thinking was, "Yeah, let's hang ourselves and suffocate, that'll make America look really bad!" The very existence of Guantanamo makes America look really bad, the fact of their imprisonment makes America look really bad, and yet they were still in their prison cells, so I'm not sure how they would have thought that committing suicide would add much. The prisoners must have known that if the American leadership didn't care about a great blot of shame like Guantanamo, the speck of their deaths wouldn't register.
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that men are created free and equal, unless they be bearded South Asians whose neighbours hand them to our troops for pieces of silver. We can do what we like with those guys. Don't you know there's a war on?
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that men are created free and equal, unless they be bearded South Asians whose neighbours hand them to our troops for pieces of silver. We can do what we like with those guys. Don't you know there's a war on?
blackheart
unenlightened
Tulkas12 said:
I can picture it now, five guys crowding together in Gitmo planning their next nefarious course of action to stain America by highlighting what life is actually in there for them!
Tulkas12 said:
Then why did you say most of them were captured in firefights if you can't prove it?
RedWolf
Deity
blackheart said:
The funny (sad) part is that nobody can prove or disprove it... since they (or their lawyers) have access to the evidence being used against them.
blackheart said:
What is life actually like for them in there?
They are getting the best care the US military can give. They are not being mistreated beyond right to a trial.
This isn't saying that suicide isn't a viable option, I know the gaurds there do, as in any prison, try to keep ways of suicide limited. They killed themselves ith bedsheets, the military's reaction? Take away the bedsheets during the daytime. You can argue Gitmo is immoral, but regarding my point, there death's were very political, and yes they damn well knew it ad thought about it. Do you not see what these terrorists do with the media? They know manipulation very well sir and they do not consider morals when manipulating it.
blackheart said:
Common sense. You're being conspiratorial, not I.
The article linked in the OP said there had been numerous suicide attempts.Tulkas12 said:
So finally three guys got lucky. Maybe the guards in that duty section were a little slack. But from the Bushite propaganda about Guantanamo, the prisoners are kept strictly segregated from each other so they shouldn't be able to collude. Are you calling Bush or one of his minions a liar?
blackheart
unenlightened
Tulkas12 said:
Camp X-Ray?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_X-Ray#International_concern_about_the_conditions_in_the_camp
Tulkas12 said:
I smell a conspiracy theory.
Tulkas12 said:
I'm sorry, you can't say that most of the men who are in Gitmo were caught in firefights when there was been no proof given, no trials made, nor anything to indicate that they are guilty of any specific crimes. So you're assuming something, based on your "common sense" which isn't common at all, considering that it isn't even based on sense. I suppose it would be a good idea to use common sense to convict murderers too then?
Is there any point in noting the circularity here? Probably not. I will, however, observe that the imprisonment of Afghani farmers and townsmen is also a political act, and in many or most of the cases (I doubt little that some of them may have committed militant acts) it is the American military that has thrust political importance into their lives. If some of them choose to react politically to being imprisoned unjustly for political reasons, I don't see what's to be surprised or indignant about. In fact, their suicides are only political because their imprisonment was political: convicted murderers (EDIT: or, more aptly, wrongly convicted murderers) who kill themselves in prison do not thereby commit political acts. Think about it.
Being imprisoned indefinitely on suspicion of being a suspect isn't particularly good care.Tulkas12 said:
You're the guy pretending the three dead guys killed themselves to embarrass Bush. That strikes me as being (a) conspiratorial and (b) not common sense.Tulkas12 said:
YNCS said:
I agree with you on the first part. The second, you would be right if it wasn't for their well known tactics in politics. These people kill themselves and others for nothing short of political statements. Otherwise I would tend to agree that the iidea is conspiratorial.
I haven't heard or read anything about the detainees' tactics in politics? How could I? They're kept incommunicado. They're not allowed to talk to anyone. So for you to claim their actions are political is a sheer guess on your part.
YNCS said:
Look, if someday it turns out that the US detained innocent people and stored them away forever in gitmo then so be it, you are right. I do not believe this our military's way of doing things. Most are terrorists there, if you think otherwise, we must agree to disagree.
blackheart
unenlightened
Tulkas12 said:
Again, there is no proof for this as there are no public charges or trials.
RedWolf
Deity
Tulkas12 said:
Isn't "most" unacceptable? It is to me.
Probably "most" people arrested for crimes are guilty as well but yet they all get fair trials.
