More Alternate Leaders?

[Patine]

Vienna didn't want him though.
That would even be worse than Shaka's capital being Ulundi.
Berlin would make since as another capital for Germany though, but not with him.

What capital should Shaka have, by the way - Pietermaritzburg or Durban? :S

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What capital should Shaka have, by the way - Pietermaritzburg or Durban? :S

Bulawayo or Kwa-Bulawayo, not to be confused with the one in Zimbabwe, was his actual capital. Ulundi was a capital of the Zulu after Shaka.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

What would you guys think of an Aztec leader who didn't come from Tenochtitlan? I think Nezahualcoyotl would be an interesting alt leader due to the sheer contrast between him and Montezuma.

 

[Patine]

What would you guys think of an Aztec leader who didn't come from Tenochtitlan? I think Nezahualcoyotl would be an interesting alt leader due to the sheer contrast between him and Montezuma.

They wouldn't be AZTECS (as in Mexica), in that case, they'd be a different Nahuatl-speaking ethnicity from the Valley of Mexico.

 

[Absolution]

Is it different from using the name Korea for a Silla leader or the name Spain for a (potential) Aragonese leader?
While they didn't identify as Aztecs (and actually Aztec was never an ethnicity or a nation) we could still use this term to catch all of the pre-Aztec Nahual speaking Mexicans of the same culture.

 

[Patine]

Is it different from using the name Korea for a Silla leader or the name Spain for a (potential) Aragonese leader?
While they didn't identify as Aztecs (and actually Aztec was never an ethnicity or a nation) we could still use this term to catch all of the pre-Aztec Nahual speaking Mexicans of the same culture.

If it's PRE-Mexica, it's not quite the same culture. The Mexica's arrival from "Aztlan" in the north greatly shook up the cultural, political, military, and religious establishment in the Valley of Mexico in unprecedented ways, from all that can be gathered, ushering in a COMPLETELY new era and order to things.

 

[Zaarin]

They wouldn't be AZTECS (as in Mexica), in that case, they'd be a different Nahuatl-speaking ethnicity from the Valley of Mexico.

He wasn't Mexica, but he was Nahuan.

If it's PRE-Mexica, it's not quite the same culture. The Mexica's arrival from "Aztlan" in the north greatly shook up the cultural, political, military, and religious establishment in the Valley of Mexico in unprecedented ways, from all that can be gathered, ushering in a COMPLETELY new era and order to things.

I think that's overstating things. The Mexica shooks things up politically and militarily, but culturally they thoroughly assimilated to the Mesoamerican cultural zone: they have a lot more in common culturally with the Maya than they do their cousins the Hopi. The Aztec are a Civ standard because they have a high degree of name recognition because everyone in the US reads about them in school. I'd happily retire them for a game or two in favor of competitors like the Mixtec, Zapotec, or even Texcoco. (Whereas I think the Maya ought to be the perennial base game Mesoamerican civ.)

 

[Guandao]

He wasn't Mexica, but he was Nahuan.


I think that's overstating things. The Mexica shooks things up politically and militarily, but culturally they thoroughly assimilated to the Mesoamerican cultural zone: they have a lot more in common culturally with the Maya than they do their cousins the Hopi. The Aztec are a Civ standard because they have a high degree of name recognition because everyone in the US reads about them in school. I'd happily retire them for a game or two in favor of competitors like the Mixtec, Zapotec, or even Texcoco. (Whereas I think the Maya ought to be the perennial base game Mesoamerican civ.)

Mixtec only has one possible leader choice. Information on the Zapotec rulers are lacking. How about the Tarascans?
But I do agree on the Maya being the perennial base game Mesoamerican civ.

 

[Zaarin]

Mixtec only has one possible leader choice.

Yes, and the name "Eight Deer Jaguar Claw" alone should secure him a spot.

NB I'm not saying that the Aztec should be permanently replaced. I'm just saying that they're not the only important civ in the region and I wouldn't mind seeing them swapped out occasionally.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

Even with the different ethnicities, I had thought that a leader from Texcoco or Tlacopan could be an acceptable alt leader for the Aztec Empire due to them being the main components of the Triple Alliance. It wouldn't be something I'd fight intensely for though.

Yes, and the name "Eight Deer Jaguar Claw" alone should secure him a spot.

That is easily one of the coolest names and I'd love to see Mesoamerica get filled up more eventually!

The Tarascans would be nice to have too, Zuangua sounds like the best choice to lead them as far as I know.

 

[Guandao]

The Tarascans would be nice to have too, Zuangua sounds like the best choice to lead them as far as I know.

Where can I find more info on this Zuangua fellow? His Spanish wikipedia page barely has anything...

 

[TahamiTsunami]

He's mentioned very briefly here and here but is described in greater detail here. After looking up the Chumash, Hopi, and Tlingit leaders, I've learned that google books can help fill in the blanks that wikipedia leaves out! I'm fairly tempted to make some wikipedia pages for these leaders.

 

[Guandao]

He's mentioned very briefly here but is described in greater detail here. After looking up the Chumash, Hopi, and Tlingit leaders, I've learned that google books can help fill in the blanks that wikipedia leaves out! I'm fairly tempted to make some wikipedia pages for these leaders.

Please do! I feel like many non-Western historical leaders are neglected in the English wiki.
Have you found a good literary source for a Zapotec King?

 

[TahamiTsunami]

Not yet, but I'll be sure to search for it to see what I find. Fingers crossed!

 

[Patine]

Please do! I feel like many non-Western historical leaders are neglected in the English wiki.
Have you found a good literary source for a Zapotec King?

To be pedantic, Indigenous leaders of the Americas are WESTERN leaders - just not European and European-derived leaders.

 

[Guandao]

To be pedantic, Indigenous leaders of the Americas are WESTERN leaders - just not European and European-derived leaders.

I guess your right then....I meant European/European descended leaders.

 

[Patine]

Just bumping this thread, here. An interesting choice for an alternate Roman female leader (as they are VERY difficult to find good ones), and since eminence greases and powers-behind-the-throne have since become much more likely from Firaxis, here's one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galla_Placidia

Not the greatest TIME PERIOD in Roman history, but her power and influence during the reigns of three (arguably four) Roman Emperors and during the rise of Flavius Aetius, and even over a powerful Germanic Barbarian King of the day, menacing the borders, can't be ignored as factors.

 

[Zaarin]

Just bumping this thread, here. An interesting choice for an alternate Roman female leader (as they are VERY difficult to find good ones), and since eminence greases and powers-behind-the-throne have since become much more likely from Firaxis, here's one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galla_Placidia

Not the greatest TIME PERIOD in Roman history, but her power and influence during the reigns of three (arguably four) Roman Emperors and during the rise of Flavius Aetius, and even over a powerful Germanic Barbarian King of the day, menacing the borders, can't be ignored as factors.

Rome is not a civilization I would choose a female ruler for, but if I were I'd choose Fulvia, wife of Mark Antony (among others), major political influencer throughout her life (in boldfaced transgression of Roman tradition), and leader in her own name of a civil war during the time of the Third Triumvirate. She never led Rome itself, but I'd say her influence was on par with CdM and greater than Eleanor's.

 

[awesome]

I've been toying with the idea of Charles De Gaulle leading France, with Algiers as the capital (or Brazzaville, but that might step on Congo's toes).

 

[The Kingmaker]

Been thinking about alternate leaders with the release of GS.

I think a good place to start re: the most likely civs to receive one are the ones who had alternate leaders in Civ4: America, China, Egypt, England, France, Germany, Greece, India, Mongolia, Persia, Rome, Russia and the Turks. (The Celts had two as well but they’re not in the game yet.)

Greece, India, England and France are set for now.

America: Washington and Lincoln are iconic, but for some reason, I’m expecting Jefferson, with a Lewis and Clark or Louisiana Purchase ability. Something for easy land grabs, culture bombs or cheap/free/extra hex purchases.

China/Mongolia: Double up with Kublai Khan. I know Mongolia was in an XP. They’d have to find a way around it, because this one is too tempting to ignore. Xanadu as his ability, maybes gives culture bonuses for improving conquered land or building certain districts in conquered cities.

Egypt: Hatshepsut is less likely because they’ll want to differentiate from Cleopatra. Khufu or Ramses II are likely as builders. Akhenaten would be a fun, but quirky dark horse.

Germany: Probably not Frederick the Great, since we already have a Frederick in the game. Bismarck has a history in the franchise, but I’m expecting someone who could double up with another civ, whether Charles V, Maria Theresa, or Charlemagne.

Persia/Ottomans: Not likely IMHO since they’re from DLC/XPs. I might actually expect a second leader for Arabia, maybe Harun al-Rashid, to move that capital out of Cairo.

Rome: We have someone in armor, let’s get someone in a toga. Cicero for the republic? I’d say Scipio, but that’s just more armor. Livia could represent the machinations of a power behind the throne. Nero as a big personality villain? There’s always the same old Caesars too. Maybe Constantine for a very different Rome? Some people expect Theodora or another Byzantine but I still think they may get their own Civ.

Russia: No commies. Ivan the Terrible could be a wild unpredictable character. Would love a streltsy UU. Catherine has been in every game since Civ2. We already have a Catherine in France though, but we don’t have an English Elizabeth. Empress Elizabeth would act similar to Catherine the Great, if somewhat less obliging.

Spain: They already had Isabella ready, but they modeled her on the wrong one (Izzy of Portugal, Charles V’s wife). Will we ever get her? Or will we get Charles V in a combo with Germany? (Too similar to his son, Philip?)

If they did ever do another for England or France, I’d want Henry VIII for England and Richelieu for France. Elizabeth and Napoleon/Louis XIV are more likely though.