More is less

[morchuflex]

Hello.

I've often seen stg strange during negociations: As I ask for one tech and offer one tech in return, the advisor says "we're getting close to a deal here"; so, I add some money in gpt to MY offer, and now the advisor frowns and says: "they'll never accept such a deal". Strange, huh? How can more be less?

Conversely, the AI seems to hate paying gpt (that's in Conquests 1.22, please don't answer if you're playing Vanilla ): I offer a tech and in return I ask for a lump sum of 600. They're willing to pay. But if I ask for very slightly more, say 600 now and 1 gpt, the advisor frowns and says: "they'll never accept such a deal". How can such a minor difference change everything, unless they're hard-coded to always refuse gpt, at least under certain circumstances which I cannot start to fathom?

Any help?

 

[punkbass2000]

Hello.

I've often seen stg strange during negociations: As I ask for one tech and offer one tech in return, the advisor says "we're getting close to a deal here"; so, I add some money in gpt to MY offer, and now the advisor frowns and says: "they'll never accept such a deal". Strange, huh? How can more be less?

Your reputation is shot.

Conversely, the AI seems to hate paying gpt (that's in Conquests 1.22, please don't answer if you're playing Vanilla ): I offer a tech and in return I ask for a lump sum of 600. They're willing to pay. But if I ask for very slightly more, say 600 now and 1 gpt, the advisor frowns and says: "they'll never accept such a deal". How can such a minor difference change everything, unless they're hard-coded to always refuse gpt, at least under certain circumstances which I cannot start to fathom?

They don't have gpt.

 

[IbnSina]

Yeah, when that happens, it's because they don't trust you any more. They want money in front - they won't take gpt (or even probably luxuries or resources) in payment for a deal.

 

[gunkulator]

Remember that attitude and reputation are different. I've had Furious civs make gpt deals in some games and Polite civs refuse the same in another.

Also, watch out for extracting the maximum gpt from the AI. If they get into a bind and don't have the money, they'll declare war on you no matter what their attitude.

 

[bingen]

Also, watch out for extracting the maximum gpt from the AI. If they get into a bind and don't have the money, they'll declare war on you no matter what their attitude.

I do not think so, they will just be broke(and you will still get your money).

Also, punkbass is right on both accounts. I have had no problem getting GPT deals in C3C, although they need to have GPT to pay it.

 

[Cataphract887]

i have no problems getting gpt under any circumstances.however i cant get gtp from any pre-industrial age tech,and when i get industrial and modern age techs the ai's will go broke for them,ive gotton 600 gpt just for medicine before

 

[Sid Monster]

To Morchuflex:
They wont trade Gpt because either one: the don't have it
Or two: they're afraid you will break the deal through war before you pay up.

 

[michael4000]

I've been limping through a game like morchuflex's where I've got scads of cash, but it won't do me any good because apparently I went to war with a trading partner a few millenia ago. This is probably a stupid question but, if you aren't taking notes, is there any way of telling whom you have trading arrangements with at any given time, and how many turns are left in them?

 

[TimBentley]

I've been limping through a game like morchuflex's where I've got scads of cash, but it won't do me any good because apparently I went to war with a trading partner a few millenia ago. This is probably a stupid question but, if you aren't taking notes, is there any way of telling whom you have trading arrangements with at any given time, and how many turns are left in them?

Either go to the foreign advisor screen (F4) and click on details (I can't remember when this was introduced), or talk to the leaders, propose a deal, and click on active (at the bottom). Or you could do what I do, and use MapStat and/or CivAssist.

 

[rysingsun]

Hello.

I've often seen stg strange during negociations: As I ask for one tech and offer one tech in return, the advisor says "we're getting close to a deal here"; so, I add some money in gpt to MY offer, and now the advisor frowns and says: "they'll never accept such a deal". Strange, huh? How can more be less?

poorly coded ai trading.

you are right that a tech plus gpt is never a worse deal than the tech alone no matter how untrustworthy you are so there is no logical reason for this. similarly you can offer 5 techs and 10000 gold for 1gpt and they will accept but as soon as you throw one city into the offer they will always say no. somewhere along the way a well coded ai was probably found to have an exploit and in their hasty attempt to close the exploit they brought in this paradoxical "more is less" problem.

and it matters. there actually have been games where i tried to give a city to a friend to keep him in the game and he refused my city no matter how much i tried to bribe him to accept it.

thats the way it goes ...

 

[michael4000]

Thanks Tim -- I don't think I have a "Details" option, but I'll look for it. But it's about time I got CivAssist, I think. Here goes...