More Luxuries

The lapis lazuli icon is fantastic! The ancient Egyptian influence works quiet well.

Will this mod be compatible with the YNAEMP by Gedemon? That would be quite amazing. It would greatly diversify resources.

Keep up the great work Barathor. It's appreciated even by the quiet crowd.
 
I don't know why, but on my first impression the Lapis icon, while awesome, just doesn't appeal to me, haha. I can't put my finger on why, though; I guess, for me at least, it doesn't seem to really invoke the sense that it is representing Lapis Lazuli, other than that it's blue (kinda like somebody mentioned about the Coral icon, which I also love and actually didn't see a problem with other than that the blue water in the icon blends in with the ocean on the map, haha). Don't get me wrong, I love the icon, it just doesn't seem "right". But again, that's just my opinion. :)

Since I don't mod currently, I am unfamiliar with the way terrain graphics work, but is there a way to like make the graphics "textured" rather than just a flat, solid blue-orange? You mentioned about maybe changing them so I ask because (again, in my opinion, which you are well within your rights and more than welcome to ignore :)) the terrain doesn't seem to really invoke either that it's what it's supposed to be other than it's being blue.

I Google searched for images of Lapis Lazuli and in most cases (such as the following under the spoiler), the stones themselves of a turqoise and a darker blue, as well as white veins and sporadic yellow spots (more closer to the color of sunflowers than the orange you currently have).


The first picture is the cover image for the Lapis Lazuli article on Wikipedia, and what most people will probably refer to if they play with your mod and then look up what it is, and in general what most people will see as a representation of Lapis Lazuli if they look it up period. Notice that with all five examples, the color isn't just "blue", but each has two different-color tones, and all have the white and yellow to some degree (the yellow changes color between stone samples, but seems more consistently light yellow rather than the dark orange of the third and fourth pictures and of your current terrain graphics).

If it's possible to change the textures on the terrain graphics to be something like the above, where there are multiple colors that ultimately make up what lapis Lazuli itself is, then I say you should go for it, because as it looks now, it just seems like a slab of blue, haha, and it doesn't really feel all that accurate to what it's intended to represent, and it kinda loses its uniqueness, which is the multi-colors (at least as far as the raw form is concerned, that is).

Haha, but again, this is just my thoughts, and you are free to take my unsolicited advice and ignore it, as in the end it is your mod, and I am still on a "You picked my luxury!" high, haha, and will enjoy having it in the game no matter the end result. I'm not intending to be overly critical or mean either, but I apologize in advance if I wrote in such a way that it appears as such.

Oh, and you said about wanting to show a produced form of the luxury whenever possible. I completely understand, though I think people are more familiar with Lapis Lazuli in its unprocessed form, but whatever. :P But anyways, if you were to make a new icon that showed it in its stone form, I think that the last of the five pictures in the spoiler would be pretty sweet for that role. :mischief:

I will get to the luxury write-ups eventually, (Spoiler alert: Mint, Vanilla, and Peanuts are on the shortlist and will definitely be getting write-ups, the others on the shortlist - and there are quite a few; haha, I kept writing things down on my phone one day while I was going through a supermarket, though there are others from before and after - are more iffy as to which I'll eventually choose to write about for your benefit and possible inspiration) but for now I'll end this long post and let you critique my critiques. :D
 
Sounds good. It is a good icon, don't get me wrong - it just isn't my favorite of the ones you've done. :D

...

Yeah, I wasn't too crazy over the bracelet either, compared to the other ones... haha. This one was one of the tougher ones to represent, since a full coral plant is hard to represent well as an icon, especially at smaller sizes. I also didn't want to go the easy route with yet another large polished gemstone pic on a ring or pendant.

I found a nice full pic of one on a pillow that could work, but it was still a little too intricate:
http://www.beachdecorshop.com/images/P/red%20coral%20hook%20pillow-01.jpg

So, I wound up working with a piece of branch instead, and came up with the following, I think I like this better too:
coral_luxury_2.png
coral_luxury_2.png
 
Yeah, I wasn't too crazy over the bracelet either, compared to the other ones... haha. This one was one of the tougher ones to represent, since a full coral plant is hard to represent well as an icon, especially at smaller sizes. I also didn't want to go the easy route with yet another large polished gemstone pic on a ring or pendant.

I found a nice full pic of one on a pillow that could work, but it was still a little too intricate:
http://www.beachdecorshop.com/images/P/red%20coral%20hook%20pillow-01.jpg

So, I wound up working with a piece of branch instead, and came up with the following, I think I like this better too:
coral_luxury_2.png
coral_luxury_2.png

Barathor,

I greatly approve of this new icon. Your hard work has paid off here, as it is much more recognizable and charming.

G
 
:goodjob:

Thanks for the useful feedback; when the art isn't helping to easily identify things, there's a problem. Now, back to that lapis lazuli...
 
The lapis lazuli icon is fantastic! The ancient Egyptian influence works quiet well.

Will this mod be compatible with the YNAEMP by Gedemon? That would be quite amazing. It would greatly diversify resources.

Keep up the great work Barathor. It's appreciated even by the quiet crowd.

Thanks! Though, I'll keep working on it; I don't think it's quite there yet.

I believe it's compatible with YNAEMP, last time I checked. Though, it was a while ago.

Yeah, I like to believe that. I'm usually part of the quiet crowd too, that admires and appreciates the info, tutorials, work, etc. on this site!
 
I don't know why, but on my first impression the Lapis icon, while awesome, just doesn't appeal to me, haha. I can't put my finger on why, though; I guess, for me at least, it doesn't seem to really invoke the sense that it is representing Lapis Lazuli, other than that it's blue (kinda like somebody mentioned about the Coral icon, which I also love and actually didn't see a problem with other than that the blue water in the icon blends in with the ocean on the map, haha). Don't get me wrong, I love the icon, it just doesn't seem "right". But again, that's just my opinion. :)

I know what you mean. Especially at the smaller size, it's like, "What the heck is that? A blue acorn?" :lol:

I want to try a version with some legs added in. Maybe I'll throw a sparkle on it to make it look more like polished stone or maybe I'll add more texture to it. I could also try removing the gold lines and just make the whole thing look blue. I don't know... just some random thoughts.

Since I don't mod currently, I am unfamiliar with the way terrain graphics work, but is there a way to like make the graphics "textured" rather than just a flat, solid blue-orange? You mentioned about maybe changing them so I ask because (again, in my opinion, which you are well within your rights and more than welcome to ignore :)) the terrain doesn't seem to really invoke either that it's what it's supposed to be other than it's being blue.

I Google searched for images of Lapis Lazuli and in most cases (such as the following under the spoiler), the stones themselves of a turqoise and a darker blue, as well as white veins and sporadic yellow spots (more closer to the color of sunflowers than the orange you currently have).


The first picture is the cover image for the Lapis Lazuli article on Wikipedia, and what most people will probably refer to if they play with your mod and then look up what it is, and in general what most people will see as a representation of Lapis Lazuli if they look it up period. Notice that with all five examples, the color isn't just "blue", but each has two different-color tones, and all have the white and yellow to some degree (the yellow changes color between stone samples, but seems more consistently light yellow rather than the dark orange of the third and fourth pictures and of your current terrain graphics).

If it's possible to change the textures on the terrain graphics to be something like the above, where there are multiple colors that ultimately make up what lapis Lazuli itself is, then I say you should go for it, because as it looks now, it just seems like a slab of blue, haha, and it doesn't really feel all that accurate to what it's intended to represent, and it kinda loses its uniqueness, which is the multi-colors (at least as far as the raw form is concerned, that is).

Yeah, I've seen most of those images. I'm currently trying to marble more color into it. I'm going to test things using the base marble texture this time, instead of the iron one, and apply it to the iron model I'm using to utilize the mine.

The left one is the older one (from the iron texture, which didn't have a lot of different colors) and the right one is a new texture I'm going to test out (using the marble texture).
orig%2520lapis%2520texture.png
new%2520lapis%2520texture%25201.png


I still may need to tweak the blue and maybe darken it a bit, but I can't tell until I see it in the game and on the model, because it always ends up looking different because of other lighting effects and things. I also hope I didn't add too much white for the models, or put them in bad locations.

I don't believe it needs to be identical to the real thing, but I want it to fairly represent the stone.

I could easily just grab an already made lapis lazuli texture online:
Spoiler :
11418.jpg
Lapis-Lazuli.jpg
10700463_c17a_m.jpg


They look great, but they may not work well with the models created in game, which work off of the existing textures and where the veins are located and such. They may also be too intricate for the small terrain graphics they're needed for. If for example, it was for some model in a first-person game or something, with bigger lifelike models, these would probably be most ideal. Also, for example, having large portions of a color in the texture could create rocks that are entirely white or sandy colored, instead of the blue marbled stone.

However, if the one I've tried out doesn't look great either, then perhaps the leftmost lifelike example could be useable, since it's pretty tame and has lots of blue with smaller areas of color marbled in. I would just apply a filter effect to it or something to touch it up and make it game-ready.

Haha, but again, this is just my thoughts, and you are free to take my unsolicited advice and ignore it, as in the end it is your mod, and I am still on a "You picked my luxury!" high, haha, and will enjoy having it in the game no matter the end result. I'm not intending to be overly critical or mean either, but I apologize in advance if I wrote in such a way that it appears as such.

Haha... don't worry about it. I like all criticism and can take it. That's why I'm posting things here; I don't just want acclaim (though, it's certainly nice to receive it).

Oh, and you said about wanting to show a produced form of the luxury whenever possible. I completely understand, though I think people are more familiar with Lapis Lazuli in its unprocessed form, but whatever. :P But anyways, if you were to make a new icon that showed it in its stone form, I think that the last of the five pictures in the spoiler would be pretty sweet for that role. :mischief:

I don't think I'll be representing it in stone form. If anything, I would just cop out and make another jewelry item (such as this pendant), if all else fails. But, I'm really trying to avoid that.

I will get to the luxury write-ups eventually, (Spoiler alert: Mint, Vanilla, and Peanuts are on the shortlist and will definitely be getting write-ups, the others on the shortlist - and there are quite a few; haha, I kept writing things down on my phone one day while I was going through a supermarket, though there are others from before and after - are more iffy as to which I'll eventually choose to write about for your benefit and possible inspiration) but for now I'll end this long post and let you critique my critiques. :D

Oh, I already had vanilla and nuts on my own list, but only looked up things on them quickly. It would be interesting to see any additional info you find on them. I remember seeing things on Mint too when I was looking up all different kinds of popular herbs.
 
Really nice, great work!
 
I was thinking the previous icon may have been a bit too much and I toned things down a bit.

I haven't been able to work on things this weekend, but I had an idea on another historically important and simple way to represent lapis lazuli (other than another jewelry item): pigment!

Latest preview:

Spoiler :

lapis%25204.png

lapis%2520preview%25204.png

 
I was thinking the previous icon may have been a bit too much and I toned things down a bit.

I haven't been able to work on things this weekend, but I had an idea on another historically important and simple way to represent lapis lazuli (other than another jewelry item): pigment!

Latest preview:

Spoiler :

lapis%25204.png

lapis%2520preview%25204.png


I like your latest icon the best – fits the style of the standard icons very well.

One small, tiny suggestion? Perhaps a bit more gradient in the background, to make it look a little less stark white? Feel free to keep it as is, though - it looks great.
G
 
One resource I'd love to see would be honey. Honey has played such an important role in the history of mankind. Granted, creating an apiary terrain graphic might be hard, but if it were possible, I'd love to see it.

However, I'd like to some other sea resources. Perhaps Lobster and Shark might be good candidates?

Anyways, I love the work you've done with this mod. Your tweaks to resource distribution has really made playing larger maps less of a pain.

As for your city-state tweaks, it got me thinking. If you are going to give all types of city-states luxuries, why not change the nature of the mercantile state itself? Instead of giving extra happiness, give allies of those city states some trade route bonuses. If you are friends, your trade routes with that CS produces more gold. If you are allies, the CS sends a trade route to you.
 
Hm, I'll be honest, I had reservations about using the scarab beetle to represent Lapis Lazuli, but I prefer it over the current one. It's a good icon, but a little boring to look at, IMO. But maybe a more vibrant background would help.
 
I like the new icon Barathor, and I didn't think of using the pigment as the icon because I thought it would overlap with dyes, but it doesn't and it makes a good representation (especially since Lapis Lazuli has been known and coveted as a luxury throughout history mainly because of the ultramarine dye made from it - though for that very reason, you may want to revert the Dyes icon color back to purple, haha). It seems a little grainy and blurry in the big example, though (which doesn't mean anything since it looks fine in the in-game screenshot, however), and I echo Gazebo and JFD's sentiments regarding the background, as it being just a straight white seems a little bland, haha, especially when compared to the textures of your other icons. Maybe something like this?

Maybe you could also mess with the terrain graphics color one more time to make it lighter to match the icon color? Or if not, at least go the way of most Lapis Lazuli stones and make it two-tone, with the current blue it is now and small streaks of a lighter blue matching the pigment color in the icon?

On a slightly different note, I've been meaning to ask, but what exactly was the problem with Ebony that made you remove it again? Were you having a hard time figuring out how to transmute it to the camp graphics or was it something else?
 
A vote for the pigment here. It needs a touch of tweaking, but I think it works better - especially when the icon is scaled down for the use on the map.
 
I like your latest icon the best – fits the style of the standard icons very well.

One small, tiny suggestion? Perhaps a bit more gradient in the background, to make it look a little less stark white? Feel free to keep it as is, though - it looks great.
G

I agree!

One resource I'd love to see would be honey. Honey has played such an important role in the history of mankind. Granted, creating an apiary terrain graphic might be hard, but if it were possible, I'd love to see it.

However, I'd like to some other sea resources. Perhaps Lobster and Shark might be good candidates?

Anyways, I love the work you've done with this mod. Your tweaks to resource distribution has really made playing larger maps less of a pain.

As for your city-state tweaks, it got me thinking. If you are going to give all types of city-states luxuries, why not change the nature of the mercantile state itself? Instead of giving extra happiness, give allies of those city states some trade route bonuses. If you are friends, your trade routes with that CS produces more gold. If you are allies, the CS sends a trade route to you.

Thanks! I don't think a honey one would be hard, just some custom tree graphics or something with oversized beehives in them, and then when a plantation is placed, switch the file used to something resembling hive boxes. The number can be reduced within the file so there aren't too many placed in rows. As you can see, I've given it some thought already, haha... but I rather not create more plantation resources and make the total even higher. I'll be representing honey through city-states.

It's funny you mention lobster. I'm actually replacing Maritime's Clams luxury with Lobster, since while working on the Coral graphics and its own clams, I realized it may be slightly redundant. So, it'll be Lobster, Shrimp, and Squid. I was considering Kelp too, for something different, but chose Squid since it's probably imported more and more popular around the world than Kelp/Seaweed. Another one I was thinking of was simply Shells, but I don't think that would be a good one.

I like the new icon Barathor, and I didn't think of using the pigment as the icon because I thought it would overlap with dyes, but it doesn't and it makes a good representation (especially since Lapis Lazuli has been known and coveted as a luxury throughout history mainly because of the ultramarine dye made from it - though for that very reason, you may want to revert the Dyes icon color back to purple, haha). It seems a little grainy and blurry in the big example, though (which doesn't mean anything since it looks fine in the in-game screenshot, however), and I echo Gazebo and JFD's sentiments regarding the background, as it being just a straight white seems a little bland, haha, especially when compared to the textures of your other icons. Maybe something like this?

Maybe you could also mess with the terrain graphics color one more time to make it lighter to match the icon color? Or if not, at least go the way of most Lapis Lazuli stones and make it two-tone, with the current blue it is now and small streaks of a lighter blue matching the pigment color in the icon?

On a slightly different note, I've been meaning to ask, but what exactly was the problem with Ebony that made you remove it again? Were you having a hard time figuring out how to transmute it to the camp graphics or was it something else?

Thanks! And yes, I'm definitely reverting Dyes back to the original purple color now. They're different, but I still want them different colors.

Yeah, I touched-up the icon a bit more. That background is nice, but I'm worried it'll wash-out the ultramarine pigment -- too much blue. I originally went with a very desaturated, light background to make the pigment's color stand out. I also tried a warmer background so that it, and the bowl, contrast the cooler pigment more. In the end, though, I think I'm liking how the image turned out below. I added a texture to the background, darkened it up a little more, desaturated the bowl a little more, made the light and shadow slightly stronger, and some other things. I also cooled the background a little more for a slate blue color to tie things in, instead of trying to contrast. And I slightly blurred the pigment pixel edges in front of the bowl image, so it blends in more and looks a little less pixelated.

Yeah, I'll probably tweak the terrain graphics one more time. Though, I don't think the pigment usually matches the bolder colors of the stone; it looks like it usually comes out lighter, perhaps because the light colors marbled into the stone mix with it. I'm having fun with this, but I think I'm going to wrap it up and write the code so that these two are added in a new release. I'll do a quick update of the pantheons mod too. Then, I'll work on the city-state icons, and finally its code. Then, I'll revisit things and tweak them if needed.

Yeah, I was having difficulties with the Camp improvement and Ebony. I wanted to use the camp used for Deer, and have it remove a large area of foliage when constructed and leave only the Ebony trees scattered about.

lapis%25209.png
lapis%25209.png


I'll include the beetle icon in the mod, if anybody wants to tweak the files and switch the graphics to it.
 
I like the textured background a lot. Endorsed! :)

It's funny you mention lobster. I'm actually replacing Maritime's Clams luxury with Lobster, since while working on the Coral graphics and its own clams, I realized it may be slightly redundant. So, it'll be Lobster, Shrimp, and Squid. I was considering Kelp too, for something different, but chose Squid since it's probably imported more and more popular around the world than Kelp/Seaweed. Another one I was thinking of was simply Shells, but I don't think that would be a good one.

I'm still keen on the idea of expanding the 'fish' resource into a variety of types, some luxury, some bonus, as it is by far the most prolific sea resource we, humans, consume, and the most diverse. It would also give more variety to coastal cities (the most important cities in BNW anyways) in terms of resources.

Also, something I meant to ask earlier - have you given any thought into incorporating your new resources into the XML tables for Beliefs? If there is any one reservation I have about this mod, it is the off-chance that I'll only have your resources around my cities, thus I'm unable to benefit from Beliefs based on vanilla resources.
G
 
Also, something I meant to ask earlier - have you given any thought into incorporating your new resources into the XML tables for Beliefs? If there is any one reservation I have about this mod, it is the off-chance that I'll only have your resources around my cities, thus I'm unable to benefit from Beliefs based on vanilla resources.
G

I believe Barathor has a revised pantheon beliefs mod -- I've been using it alongside his More Luxuries mod. In my current game, because I ended up with abundant Tobacco around my starting location, I went with the "Goddess of Festivals" (or whatever) belief that gave +1 Culture for Tobacco resources (amongst others). A nice early boost for my policies!
 
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