Most useless wonders in game

[Rakshasa72]

I do so enjoy the endgame ... but I think that is because I cannot reliable finish much before T350.

I disagree with your characterization that Standard/Standard is easier than Huge/Marathon. I do not know of objective evidence for that whatsoever! Sure, Huge maps take longer to finish. But that only means that they take longer, not that the AI has a better chance of winning. Maybe, by definition, a DomVC is harder with more AIs? So put more AIs on Standard/Standard if making the game harder is what you are looking for? Or are you playing Huge maps at Standard pace?

I agree that Huge maps are different, and I have not tried them myself, but I don't find the prospect at all appealing. It is quite clear that the devs tuned everything for Standard Pace / Standard Size. I would much rather play more games than fewer slower (and more tedious) games. I am not temped to go the other way because quick pace or smaller maps are quite broken, and certainly more games that that are faster but much less interesting is not appealing! So it is Standard/Standard not because I am an “elite” player -- but because that the only combination where the game is well balanced.

If my play improves to the point where I never see a GDR, maybe then I will try Large/Epic? Or maybe try advance start? I love the late game. But I love the early game too. But, of course, I want to play more games than fewer games -- with those games each being as engaging as possible. So Standard/Standard is the sweet spot.

I agree that larger map size doesn't make that much difference in difficulty but, we are talking about Deity difficulty in this thread. On Deity difficult game speed really makes a difference.

Just consider all the extra units that Deity AI starts with. At Marathon speed it would take the player hundreds of turns to build those units. The workers that the AI start with allows them to start improving land from turn one. Which on Marathon is a big deal.

Not to mention the science advantage the AI gets. Basically, on Marathon every advantage the AI gets is amplified 5 fold. Which is why is suspect we don't see many so called "Elite" players coming here bragging on Huge/Marathon/Deity wins.

 

[Sclb]

I agree that larger map size doesn't make that much difference in difficulty but, we are talking about Deity difficulty in this thread. On Deity difficult game speed really makes a difference.

Just consider all the extra units that Deity AI starts with. At Marathon speed it would take the player hundreds of turns to build those units. The workers that the AI start with allows them to start improving land from turn one. Which on Marathon is a big deal.

Not to mention the science advantage the AI gets. Basically, on Marathon every advantage the AI gets is amplified 5 fold. Which is why is suspect we don't see many so called "Elite" players coming here bragging on Huge/Marathon/Deity wins.

What are you talking about? Nobody expects to build workers on deity since you can always steal them to even the pace. If you can't steal from AI, you can steal from CS very easily. Marathon if anything makes it easier so that you can use the starting warrior for way longer, even better if you get upgrade hut into spearman. All wars become easy if you do Marathon due to units being useful for way longer. You just have to learn how not to lose units. Elite players don't play Marathon because the game takes forever to play, not because it is hard.

 

[beetle]

On Deity difficult game speed really makes a difference.

Yes, but my understanding is that it is rather different than how you characterize it. I.e., all other things being equal, Quick is harder than Standard, and Epic and Marathon easier than Standard pace. But to stay on topic, I agree with the previous assertion that late wonder are more relevant for slower paced games.

I could also see map size making the later wonders more relevant. The number of Trade Routes and Spies does not scale with the number of AIs -- even though both are especially helpful towards Diplo and CV

 

[4N4C0ND4]

I agree that larger map size doesn't make that much difference in difficulty but, we are talking about Deity difficulty in this thread. On Deity difficult game speed really makes a difference.

I beg to disagree: I'm nowhere a good Deity player: won 4 games on standard speed so far but I lost 1 (Ottoman) and had to do some heavy & early reloading for my last win (Japan).
But I tried once on marathon and it felt like I was playing Standard/Immortal

Don't really know the reason though, and maybe 1 game is not enough to judge

 

[Acken]

Its not even a question. slower is the speed easier is the game. And bigger is the map harder is the game especially for culture and domination.

 

[FaohKi]

Parthenon useless? It's one of the best early wonders IMHO.

Uffizi I think one of the most useless. Ok 3 slots for Great Works of Art isn't that bad but you also have to open Aesthetics to be able to build it. I don't think 3 slots for GWA is worth 625

 

[Sclb]

Parthenon useless? It's one of the best early wonders IMHO.

Uffizi I think one of the most useless. Ok 3 slots for Great Works of Art isn't that bad but you also have to open Aesthetics to be able to build it. I don't think 3 slots for GWA is worth 625

Uffizi also has a free GA and if you do culture victory, you will have Aesthetics open anyway. It usually is an easy build if you have the tech and production for it.

 

[FaohKi]

Uffizi also has a free GA and if you do culture victory, you will have Aesthetics open anyway. It usually is an easy build if you have the tech and production for it.

Yes, it does but building a wonder for just that in that era is pointless. But Parthenon gives 4 which is pretty good for early game and free slot.

 

[apocalypse105]

Hanging gardens just because you WILL NEVER GET IT. The AI allways built it. Even on king i rally get it... And on emperor or higher its olmost impossible

and thats why its most useless wonder because you cant use it

 

[claudiupb]

Hanging gardens just because you WILL NEVER GET IT. The AI allways built it. Even on king i rally get it... And on emperor or higher its olmost impossible

and thats why its most useless wonder because you cant use it

HG is doable even on deity, you just need to beeline it. There are even games where no AI opens tradition so you can build it very late. It is a good wonder, the food bonus is huge at that point in the game, and the free garden is pretty good especially if your city wasn't next to a river/lake.

 

[Sclb]

Yes, it does but building a wonder for just that in that era is pointless. But Parthenon gives 4 which is pretty good for early game and free slot.

Parthenon is a difficult wonder to get on deity, on lower difficulty I would definitely get it for the culture. There are also better ones to get in that era such as Hanging Garden if possible. Also I find that I'm usually busy with NC or basic infrastructure to be getting too many wonders during that era to bother with Parthenon.

 

[beetle]

Hanging gardens just because you WILL NEVER GET IT.

Even when I beeline it, I miss it. But sometimes, none of the AI open Tradition!

 

[Sclb]

Even when I beeline it, I miss it. But sometimes, none of the AI open Tradition!

I usually only bother with HG when I play with OCC or only 2 cities, otherwise the risk is too high and will delay NC.

 

[HughFran]

I would hardly call Hanging Gardens useless just because you never get the chance to build it! It is one of the best Wonders by far for growth and coupled with ToA, Tradition and Pantheons which promote growth - you can see your cities explode in size!

 

[miaasma]

not sure how this became the topic of discussion but on higher difficulties i find that as you increase the number of AIs in your game you increase the chance of one of them running away with the game

 

[Volcanon]

Worst wonder: Grand Mesa. It's hills that give you money and can't be improved. There.

Worst built wonder - Christo Redentor. Tiny discount on culture when the game is almost over is pointless. All of the early game wonders give you a benefit all game long and are usually awesome. There's nothing awesome about Christo. The discount should be, like, 40%, then you could built it and full in your ideology quick.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I'd say Krakatoa, Old Faithful and Barringer Crater are all worse, but yes Grand Mesa is complete garbage.

It is a literal unimproved gems tile yield wise. Worse than a mined gem. How is that a natural wonder?

 

[inthesomeday]

I'd say Krakatoa, Old Faithful and Barringer Crater are all worse, but yes Grand Mesa is complete garbage.

It is a literal unimproved gems tile yield wise. Worse than a mined gem. How is that a natural wonder?

All the wonders you mentioned are much much better than Mesa. Mesa is by far the worst. Krakatoa is a nice wide science boost if you can get it early, and Barringer, while a little bad, can be cool to work in a braaaaand new expand that maybe you planted on iron so it doesn't really need to work so many hammers.
Old Faithful is the best of those three, because you can essentially think of it as a unique luxury when you settle it. The yield is terrible but you're not settling it for the yield.

 

[Redaxe]

I still think Barringer Crater is also bad. You have to consider that a citizen eats 2 food per turn.
Is it worth losing 2 food just to gain 2 gold and 3 science?
Better to focus on population growth and production to develop the city. By the time you can spare a population the yield is worthless anyway.

Krakatoa might be ok to work if you had a National College and an Observatory but otherwise I don't think it's that great either.

On the other hand I quite like Old Faithful - I'd never work it but to settle next to it and get that immediate +3 happiness if its in your borders is very desirable

 

[inthesomeday]

When you're avoid growth in a 1 or, especially, 2 pop expand, and you can work one tile with hammers, Barringer can be nice, gold and science are pretty good to work early for live. Gold I work anyway, to keep out from the red, and if I can work science instead of 1 food/1 hammer, IE a typical lux, then I certainly will be.