Moved up to Noble? Depressed? Not me!

[Roxlimn]

CrimsonEdge:

That's funny. The same thing happened to me the first time I moved up to Prince on BTS!

The thing I noticed is that the game economy changes around the mid 1300s or Renaissance technology if you're getting there at 800AD. The increased productivity of Towns and Villages with Printing Press and on maturity gives the AIs an incredible boost in sheer power, which they're better able to leverage thanks to slightly better management algorithms.

At that point, you better have Biology on hand and a plan for kicking your SE game up a good notch. futurehermit once speculated that a "transition" economy wherein you start off mainly SE and transition to mainly CE was the best strategem for the game as a whole, but the more I play it, the more I realize that that's not exactly true.

Wonder building, trade routes, cottages, and specialists all contribute to your economy, and maximizing each aspect even as you prioritize one or the other will reap benefits.

If any of you guys are interested, that's the so-called Wonder Economy, Trade Economy, Cottage Economy, and Specialist Economy in action. Each can be leveraged to be the main bulk of your tech input, and its instructive to play each one so that you can get the most out of your Trade Routes even when you're gunning for Towns.

 

[CrimsonEdge]

CrimsonEdge:

That's funny. The same thing happened to me the first time I moved up to Prince on BTS!

The thing I noticed is that the game economy changes around the mid 1300s or Renaissance technology if you're getting there at 800AD. The increased productivity of Towns and Villages with Printing Press and on maturity gives the AIs an incredible boost in sheer power, which they're better able to leverage thanks to slightly better management algorithms.

At that point, you better have Biology on hand and a plan for kicking your SE game up a good notch. futurehermit once speculated that a "transition" economy wherein you start off mainly SE and transition to mainly CE was the best strategem for the game as a whole, but the more I play it, the more I realize that that's not exactly true.

Wonder building, trade routes, cottages, and specialists all contribute to your economy, and maximizing each aspect even as you prioritize one or the other will reap benefits.

If any of you guys are interested, that's the so-called Wonder Economy, Trade Economy, Cottage Economy, and Specialist Economy in action. Each can be leveraged to be the main bulk of your tech input, and its instructive to play each one so that you can get the most out of your Trade Routes even when you're gunning for Towns.

Haha yep, that seems to be exactly what happens. What I usually try to do is find a good Great Person farm and fill it with science specialists and cottage spam most everything else. I don't really see the use for anything but farms and cottages.

It works out decently but I feel like I'm missing something. I'll try shooting for Biology earlier next time.

 

[Roxlimn]

Shoot for Biology, then Medicine for Sid's to hyper-boost your cities. Don't forget to preplan a Forest Preserve City for more Specialists!

I don't particularly like Science Specialists late game, tbh. Great Engineers and Great Prophets are great for hammers because I find that I'm always short on that and there's no easy way to boost it.

Another way to boost economy: generate very large Coastal Trade Cities and then arrange for either overseas domestic trade routes or overseas foreign trade routes. Astronomy for the win. These cities pull in Commerce like you wouldn't believe. You could have as many as 5-6 Trade Routes in a big coastal city pulling in as many as 8-11 Commerce each. That's like 5 or 6 extra Free Speech Towns, and you don't even have to be in Free Speech to take advantage! And that's apart from the Specialists you'll be generating in these towns, too.


Another way to boost economy: Concentrated Wonder spamming. Lesson learned from Wonder Spam games. It's not always great to get Wonders, but sometimes they do help out a game tremendously. GLH on coastal Civs has been declared to be nearly broken. I don't agree with that personally, but it does allow you to comfortably research Education the long way in the 600-800 ADs, if you want a benchmark. If you've got a lot of religion going on and the religious buildings set up, trade for Stone and make a good effort to get UoS and SM. If you have to bulb Divine Right, so be it. It gets you the Wonder you need, and it's great trade fodder afterwards.

Speaking of which, Espionage counts, too. Learned from running the EE. Knowing what everybody else is researching is a huge boost, and the odd steal here and there can get you a handhold up. If you tech-trade, knowing which techs gain you lots from trading is key. HBR and Divine Right are unaccountably valuable in AI estimation. If you can get those fast, you'll be in good position to trade up.

 

[6K Man]

GLH on coastal Civs has been declared to be nearly broken. I don't agree with that personally, but it does allow you to comfortably research Education the long way in the 600-800 ADs, if you want a benchmark.

That would be my second tip for moving up a level - pick an archipeligo/water-heavy map, choose a leader whose traits you play well (for me it's Willem of the Dutch) and beeline the Great Lighthouse. It practically makes it impossible to overexpand (up to Prince, anyway) and saves you from having to rush to Currency for the extra trade route.

 

[Go Boks]

I'm a bigger fan of the Colossus on coastal starts.

 

[6K Man]

I'm a bigger fan of the Colossus on coastal starts.

I usually try for both. Especially if Financial (Willem, again).

What's not to like about +2 trade routes AND base 4 commerce on Coastal tiles?

 

[Roxlimn]

I like having both, too, but if I had to pick, Great Lighthouse first. GLH can give much more in terms of returns than the Colossus.

 

[Charonicus]

I'm in the same boat LemonMerchant. After much time spent reading these forums I've managed two noble victorys, one pathetic, one decent. It's good to see yourself improving though, being better able to respond to threats and whatnot.
And Genv is kinda right about the micromanagement side, not that I want to get involved in the argument about whether he's a jerk or not. My micro sucks, but with each loss comes greater understanding of what went wrong. Just a pity I have so little playing time these days. My current game has been going on for a week already. I agree that fun is the order of the day here, I doubt I'll ever take the game as seriously as the deity/immortal players and so maybe I'll never pass Prince. But trying all the maps on noble is great fun, as is occasionally dropping to warlord for a huge map just for giggles.

 

[Stoney the I]

I have nothing to contribute, except that this thread made me smile
you guys have the point of the game exactly right: having fun.
I sometimes got the idea most ppl on this forum were grinding out there time in civ, looking for perfect/perfect in every game.

I was having a crappy day so far. you guys made it a little better

Thx guys.

im looking forward to the game again tonight after work. Its been weeks.

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

On coastal starts (particularly archipelago maps) the GLH is more powerful than the Mids, IMO.

 

[Iranon]

Oh, having some good clean fun with paper, pencil and pocket calculator to figure out the optimal approach (or rather: the optimal approach in a narrowly defined context that might turn out to have little relevance in practice), then having rows over it on the boards has its attractions as well.

Fortunately, there is no grinding required to get anywhere

 

[champ82]

@ GenV

For what it's worth, I don't think you were out of line. I don't think there is anything wrong at all with people who play “just to play” or to achieve their own role playing objectives. There is also nothing wrong with encouraging people to play at their level. Certainly nobody should be told that others wished violence upon them for saying this.

By the way – how many times do you beat a level before you graduate to the next? I'm about to win my second monarch. Am I ready for emperor, or rather, to lose a couple games on emperor and then be ready?

 

[Genv [FP]]

Well Apparently I infuriated some people because any expert player could beat Noble 99% of the time.


Because somehow I'm some sort of superior omnipotent being arrogant. Because I never, ever, ever, Lost at Settler. And I never, ever, Lost at Noble. And I never, ever, automated workers.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I have nothing to contribute, except that this thread made me smile

That's a contribution.

 

[King Flevance]

LemonMerchant, I have similar sentiments as Stoney. It's good to see you enjoying your playtime. I play very similarly. Trust me when I say that there are probably large doses of experiments left. I still toy around with new things playing anywhere from Noble-Monarch.
I also don't reload as I perosnally think its more fun win your victory is actually in jeapordy(sp?).

I apologize in advancefor the following Lemon Merchant. I wanted to post something for you then got tempted as I read on. The spoiler is in regards to the Genv thing because I find it fun.

@ Genv[FP] click "show" Everyone else can ignore this.

Spoiler :

Well Apparently I infuriated some people because any expert player could beat Noble 99% of the time.

You irritated people because Lemon Merchant is posting about his experience of moving up to Noble and has won a couple games. Then you came in and failed to even say good job or anything positive. Instead you decided it best to assume you know any fault of Lemon Merchant's playstyle and then gloat about your win record.

Because somehow I'm some sort of superior omnipotent being arrogant.

Naw, I just think you're arrogant. Where did you pull super omnipotent from? Also the quote where you are trying to play grammer police, oddly you missed all the "unacceptable grammer" and highlighted words and structure which nothing was wrong with. Besides I have seen alot of your posts and believe me you have no room to crack on someone elses grammer. I can find errors in your last post as small as it is.

I don't recall anyone see Because I never, ever, ever, Lost at Settler. And I never, ever, Lost at Noble. And I never, ever, automated workers.

]I win 99% of Games at Noble

The other 1% is a draw? Quitting counts as forfeight technically. I can be an ass too.

 

[Genv [FP]]

Spoiler :

LemonMerchant, I have similar sentiments as Stoney. It's good to see you enjoying your playtime. I play very similarly. Trust me when I say that there are probably large doses of experiments left. I still toy around with new things playing anywhere from Noble-Monarch.
I also don't reload as I perosnally think its more fun win your victory is actually in jeapordy(sp?).

I apologize in advancefor the following Lemon Merchant. I wanted to post something for you then got tempted as I read on. The spoiler is in regards to the Genv thing because I find it fun.

@ Genv[FP] click "show" Everyone else can ignore this.

Spoiler :

You irritated people because Lemon Merchant is posting about his experience of moving up to Noble and has won a couple games. Then you came in and failed to even say good job or anything positive. Instead you decided it best to assume you know any fault of Lemon Merchant's playstyle and then gloat about your win record.


Naw, I just think you're arrogant. Where did you pull super omnipotent from? Also the quote where you are trying to play grammer police, oddly you missed all the "unacceptable grammer" and highlighted words and structure which nothing was wrong with. Besides I have seen alot of your posts and believe me you have no room to crack on someone elses grammer. I can find errors in your last post as small as it is.




The other 1% is a draw? Quitting counts as forfeight technically. I can be an ass too.

@ Grammar, Yeah I'm in a rush

You irritated people because Lemon Merchant is posting about his experience of moving up to Noble and has won a couple games. Then you came in and failed to even say good job or anything positive. Instead you decided it best to assume you know any fault of Lemon Merchant's playstyle and then gloat about your win record.

Well, LM Is a Girl, just FYI.

If you aren't winning games at noble, and you know all the game Mechanics, then it's time for you to start Micro-Managing better.

Ex: I used to only use my Capital to make military Units. With Micro-Managing other cities and whipping when needed, I can make 3 times more units.

This falls into the " Constructive Information category "

Naw, I just think you're arrogant. Where did you pull super omnipotent from? Also the quote where you are trying to play grammer police, oddly you missed all the "unacceptable grammer" and highlighted words and structure which nothing was wrong with. Besides I have seen alot of your posts and believe me you have no room to crack on someone elses grammer. I can find errors in your last post as small as it is.

GRAMMAR

The other 1% is a draw? Quitting counts as forfeight technically. I can be an ass too.

I've lost a couple of times..A memorable Loss was One game, was that Due to the AI being really, really lucky It had started with a double gold start, then expanded to 2 more locations, which had freaking gold. Despite popping GAs, I could not get Ahead of the AI

I probably could now, that I'm a better player, but I'm not so sure about that even.

 

[Joshua368]

By the way – how many times do you beat a level before you graduate to the next? I'm about to win my second monarch. Am I ready for emperor, or rather, to lose a couple games on emperor and then be ready?

I recommend no set threshold... just when the level becomes too easy. I played Monarch about a dozen games. Towards the end it was just a steamroll, shooting far ahead of the AIs, easily crushing civilizations, winning with a huge tech lead. (often domination wins, but even one very peaceful space race where I had lots of room to expand)

That's usually a good cue that it's time to move up.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I'm in the same boat LemonMerchant. After much time spent reading these forums I've managed two noble victorys, one pathetic, one decent.

They're still victories. Even the cheezy ones count.

And Genv is kinda right about the micromanagement side,

I've actually gotten good at micro, it's my military that I have trouble with. I can run a pretty fair economy now, even without many cottages, (Yes, I know...), but I still can't wage war very well. But I did manage an axe rush in my last game for the first time. It took seven stacks, but I wiped out Memet. Someday maybe a Domination or Conquest win?

 

[Iranon]

They're still victories. Even the cheezy ones count.

Especially the cheesy ones count, because those are fun! My most common reason for aborting games: Having a guaranteed but not particularly spectacular win. Boring.
I'd much rather claw my way up after an early disaster (I refuse to reload until I completed a game the hard way).

I've actually gotten good at micro, it's my military that I have trouble with. I can run a pretty fair economy now, even without many cottages, (Yes, I know...), but I still can't wage war very well. But I did manage an axe rush in my last game for the first time. It took seven stacks, but I wiped out Memet

War can help winning big and generally makes the game easier because the AI is utterly useless at it... but it shouldn't be necessary at all up to Emperor. If being invaded is the problem rather than not knowing how to wage aggressive wars, diplomacy can usually prevent that.
So I'm not sure what it is, but there is probably room for improvement somewhere... micromanagement, city planning, tech priorities, diplomacy or a general lack of opportunism (guilty of that as well... I tend to go for long-term benefits even if leveraging something else now would be better).

Someday maybe a Domination or Conquest win?

When life gives you lemons... squeeze their juice into your opponents' eyes!

 

[Genv [FP]]

Cheezy victories are fun. Especially gold starts.