Moving from Civ3 to Civ4

[blunderwonder]

Hi there everyone, dont want to bother just looking for things that are helpful in making the jump, anectdotal stuff more than anything because ive already most all of the things in war academy and condensed beginnger tips. I do very well at civ3 and my first 2 games didnt go so well on civ4, on easy or whatever i won but, its still so very confusing. I dont want anyone to have to dig up links or explain things that have already been iterated, just looking for things to WATCH out for when coming from civ3 - ie cottages, specialists, GP, promotions etc... Some of this stuff is still very confusing to me, ill have a 91% combat chance and lose.... this may be bad luck but it didnt seem that way as it happens more often than id imagine, specificially with shock promoted warriors losing to barbs. Then there is the Great Person Farm.. which while a fascinating thought didnt seem to work well for me, i can get the food surplus, i understand specialists add +3gp but it seems to really be slow, and even then i dont really know what to do with a great prophet or scientist besides make them a super specialists. Im gonna bullet some quick stuff questsions too if anyone has time to throw me a bone.

1) civ4 seems "slower" than civ3, thers so much more building and researching - alot of this is me not understanding how to use civics, which buildings I NEED to produce, and when are good times to attack.

2) I understand theres more diversity in civ4, however... i imagine that at the higher difficulties ( im on prince now and do ok ), there is a way that seems to work well, REX strats, and early rushes vs certain people that tend to be a good idea - or lacking that, a strategy to keep up... ie FP + 10 citites with marketplaces and banks would allow you to buy most of your techs, the most gold ive managed to pull in civ4 is something around 400-500 a turn, but i have more difficulty catching up i think.

3) In general i dont understand the balancing of cottages(commerce), specialists, and production. It was more simple in 3, and im having serious problems addapting - is it one or the other, like specialists for science and gps and neglect the bank account, or go cottages and use lots of multipliers to get your science bank account in good shape - this is something im still working on so

4) queing, wasted shields and overflow - i already read some very nice articles on using the whip to good efficiency, and it seems to have helped me alot - so i plan on bee lining bw from now on usually... in any case, i still dont entirely understand the "queing" gains, just saving maintenance for 10 turns max seems like a alot of mm for little return.

5) last but not least, REX and size still sort of baffle me - by this i mean in civ3, i knew how to plan what i was doing. you got your 5 - 7 cities or whatever, then picked someone to whomp and took theres, rushed a fp with the leader youd get, and your set, but in this game, at least at prince... i can usually outexpand the ai LOL, the problem is there doenst seem to be very high returns even if all the tiles worked are improved. It seems as if maintance is a real problem early on but not later, or is this just something I feel like im doing because if read it...

/e 6) just thought id ask also if GP farm is necessary.. i have been losing the race to alot of wonders for no reason other than I didnt think i could beat the ai to them, for the GP farm, i seem to usually go for phrophet, but i feel like get at least a few great scientists might be necessary for me in order to build a few acadamies, is this true? In my first game set on easy i discovered a religion and the gold from the shrine didnt seem to be super helpful so id like advice on this if possible



In any case let me point out i usually play contitents or pangea, normal speed maps with temperate, vanilla civ4.

also a last requests, there was an article for civ3 which introduced me to playing deity, it was a great article to read for making the jump from monarch->emporer/deity called babylon settlers or something, it outlined all the important information from a start to finish, he outlined his strategy/tactics from opening to middlegame to endgame and included the important tactical information that goes with such a strategy. i was wondering if there is a similar article here for civ4, ive read mm is alive and well, and its a great article but it isnt as comprehensive as a newb like me needs


thanks for reading

 

[lymond]

I was going to respond in bullet point to your post, but I think I'll just post in short and get to the point.

First, I own Civ3 (bought just a couple of years ago) and fiddled with it a bit, but don't have enough experience to really compare. The only thing I got from playing it is that Civ 4 is more complex in many ways. I've also heard that rexxing is way to play 3. Rex is still a strategy in 4, but not to the same degree.

What I gleaned from your post is you have some basic understanding of Civ 4 through playing and reading up. I can see some understanding of basic concepts. However, it is truly hard to understand your level at this point without seeing a game of yours. This is a good place to do this.

I'd say one of the main points I see above is your understanding of how economy works and dealing with maintenance costs. This is a key factor with this game. The main thing I tell new Civ 4 player that struggle is to break their desire/fear of keeping the research slider as high as possible. First, shun early religion...let the AIs get those. Get your worker/strat techs for the immediate land, go to Writing, lower slider to 0% for a while and build some libraries, run scientists. Run 0% slider allows you to fund expansion. New players fail to notice that as they expand, connect trade routes, develop land, and run specialists, that there ability to keep the slider high goes down, but their actually beakers per turn goes up.

Second, land is power. Once you learn this, you will understand how to get more from the land you have. And yes, you will get high returns from more land. Of course, you need to settle your land wisely. Not so easy to discuss in a vacuum. However, I will state that you should not be afraid to overlap cities early and share resources. Try to settle food resources first and in the first ring, unless Creative which allows for more leeway in how you settle a city. FOOD is so important in this game.

Great People and Gp Farms - Hugely important. Great Scientists early are the best usually. Avoid Great Prophets, expect in certain situations. First thing is to get an Academy in your capital, although as you move up levels you might try certain early bulb tactics of techs you might not usually bulb with a GS (return on investment). Later, GS help get you to Lib fast. Bulbing is the way to go.

Slowness of GPs in a GP farm is relative. Not sure how you are setting up the city. Get National Epic in there as soon as you can. The key is running Caste System in a gold age and starving out Great People. Practice it. (and a GP farm does not preclude getting gps from other cities although most will come from the GP farm. Your first GS usually comes from your Capital and sometimes your second)

Buildings - Plays into city specializations, but you certainly don't need every building in a city. Basics are Granaries everywhere (most important building in the game). Same for Forges. Barracks are relative to your gameplay/strategy, but usually in your high production and high food cities (food is also production as I think you have learned), but only if you plan to war a lot. Always good to setup a nice Heroic Epic city. Lighthouse in seafood/coastal cities. Courthouses as needed, but you often don't need them early in cities close to your capital. Everything else is relative to to the city specialization. Some cities just need a gran, forge and barracks/stable.

In lieu of building every building, try build wealth and research instead to boost your tech pace.

As you move up levels, micro-management becomes more important, as does worker management. (Workers are the most important unit in the game and you usually build one first thing)

As for moving up to Deity, I don't think there is a definitive article and even an article isn't going to solve it. You need to practice and master each level. But the best way to learn is to watch Let's Plays on YouTube like Absolute Zero. Also, play forum games here.

Lastly, get BTS!

 

[GKey]

Welcome to the CFC Blunderwonder!

Lymond gave you quite good advises. I think to make just a few:
Yes get Beyond The Sword - most people play it here (and it's definitely better then vanilla).
Too many advises can confuse you - easiest way - roll a new start (better easier one with lot's of green tiles/rivers/food) and post initial save here together with screenshot of starting position.
Wait for advises and play accordingly. You will be surprised how fast you will advance to harder difficulties.

 

[iggymnrr]

5) last but not least, REX and size still sort of baffle me - by this i mean in civ3, i knew how to plan what i was doing. you got your 5 - 7 cities or whatever, then picked someone to whomp and took theres, rushed a fp with the leader youd get, and your set, but in this game, at least at prince... i can usually outexpand the ai LOL, the problem is there doenst seem to be very high returns even if all the tiles worked are improved. It seems as if maintance is a real problem early on but not later, or is this just something I feel like im doing because if read it...

City maintenance is the new mechanic as opposed to corruption. The fp is seldom built and the character of REXing has changed.

 

[blunderwonder]

thanks to all for the quick responses, ive played lots of games over the years, diablo series up until 3, zeus, caesar etc, and this one so far i think has the biggest learning curve, im on game 4 now, cause im about done with messing with game 3, i think i have 4 or 5 saves i can post, i was going to ask if i was allowed to do that, or how to do it..

in any case... the GP thing seems like a very important part of the game, but too many specialists, at least the ones that arnt prophet, dont generate gold and sometimes shields, which becomes strange... in the saves I just played the last few hours this is basically how it worked...

heres where im at with strategy...

step 1, REX, and get bw/iw to get chop bonuses, and axemen, and then swordsmen and chop jungles so i can throw down towns. Aside from the people who like to rush early... this seems like one of the more intuitive routes axemen and chop, and ofc the whip comes with all this...i dont remember exactly which tech gives forge, but usually i have forge before OR, which seems like a good idea anyway...

after that it gets very complicated for me, because its as if i either have to choose between science, or banking, or do both - however it seems silly to me to build grocers/banks/markets in every town, if your going to have research at 100%, which i do...well into the endgame.... i imagine if i ever move up to deity i may have to reverse this and instead go all banking, and buy my techs, either way i feel like i have to choose...

the other problem is production in the mid game, around the time i get calvary, i have bunches of towns.. but it takes 6-7 turns to complete calvary or grenadiers ( the military stuff is still confusing but that will come quickly when i start rushing early, and playing a more militaristic style, i imagine you just stack units with a medic upgrade, and then some that are % vs whatever they have + a few cat/cannons.. vs their mounted, rifleman, melee etc.., nn to answer this unless you have advice on this particular topic for a beginner, but i dont really understand "first strike" or how it plays into combat odds, or if its included in them - because ive already read that health isnt, maybe its the same with first strike)


i understand its supposed to be a little complicated its part of the fun, but lots of the articles are on technical stuff, the math and the tactics behind getting the most bang for your buck, but not how to use them in game... if i get 2crabs and cow, i can probably turn that city into one with a few towns, and 4 specialists, and end up with loads of science and if philo leader maybe 50+ gpp. but then i dont know what to do with the specialists, or if theyre worth having over a town.. etc etc, up until now really, i just use scientists for acadamiesP) and then super specialists, but my favorites are the great engineers because then i can snag some wonders..


sorry to ramble on again im 90% thru this game, and im like in 3rd place, first place is "friendly" with me because i picked the right religion to go with, and i could probably whomp julius or ghandi - and thats another issue, in civ3, i almost always went for domination, and i havnt really gotten into many wars yet so i havent been able to figure some of the things that will really help my game.

one of the biggest changes though, i feel anyway... is the diplomacy stuff, this alexander guy could have crushed me, but since i have +6 religion, +4 trades, +2 open borders, +2 peace, etc etc... he gives me fair trades, beaker for beaker usually even on techs, and hasnt bothered me... in civ3 he would have sneak attacked me with ROP. So therse some nuances to diplomacy i will have to learn also


also i usually snag enough lux/res items to trade for a bit of gold, and keep my people happy at prince, getting the hang of the different civics is interesting but im used to civ3, and its usually one of two things, building bank/science buildings(its easier there cause roads/rivers give gold so nn to worry about town>?watermill, so you can be more flexibile with the sliders) OR building military to smack the next guy. My issue here is that it takes forever to build those buildings so I have to choose one or the other, then when i get it finished... i have to use the towns to take advantage of it, so I cant produce military lol...(at least not as fast as id like).


I think part of my issues stem from wanting to balance all of my cities.. where here i can have a mega production center across the globe, and not have to worry. I think in some of my next games, 2 good bonus foods will be my gp farm, 90% of other spaces availalble will have a specialist if they have bonus food, but will have lots of towns and science buildings, and ill just make sure i have at least 2 cities that are entirely dedicated to military production(this is an elusive idea for me as im not entirly sure how to do this, even though it makes sense to me overall... ie farms and mines may not actually better for production than a city with bunches of towns, a bunch of super specialists and an iron mine. Like you said, food is very important, as it lets you leverage production with the whip early in the game, and later you can use it to support towns or mines...

im also going to look for some other peoples saves, if someone could direct me that would be good, maybe get a feel for how other people build

 

[Doshin]

It sounds like you're thinking about and asking the right questions, so you're on the right track.

A random assortment of comments:

Currency is by far the most important economic tech, because Currency adds an additional trade route to each of your cities. This will make most of them profitable. You don't need to build a Market or Bank, although constructing these will naturally bring in even more money. But in many cities (esp. those low in commerce) a Market or Bank will offer you very little benefit.

It's not necessary to run 100% research all the time. You can outpace the AI by acquiring a monopoly technology and then trading it with them. Once you have conquered a neighbor, your science output at 50% will also be greater than the remaining AI (10 player cities at 50% research = 5 AI cities at 100% research, to simplify the matter massively).

There are various ways to increase production. Whipping and Chopping are used in the early game. Both are enabled by Bronze Working. In the late game, certain improvements receive higher yields. Workshops provide a good example. Guilds (the technology) adds +1 to the Workshop improvement. Chemistry adds another +1 . The civic "Caste System" adds +1 and "State Property" adds +1 . So, whereas an early game grassland Workshop will offer 1 1 , a late game Workshop will offer 2 4 (values which are further increased by certain late game production buildings, like Factories).

Most people will have one, or perhaps two specialist "farms" which work two or more high food tiles. One of these cities will contain the National Epic, which grants a +100% Great Person birth rate in that city.

A regular Science Specialist generates 3 per turn. This is like working a 3 tile. So, on they're own they're not very good. But the Great People that they generate are extremely powerful. Most people value Great Scientists in the early game for an Academy (in the capital) and tech bulbing.

There are a series of videos by a player called TheMeinTeam on Youtube that may help your game (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjVZQzPVCBs&feature=relmfu) .

 

[blunderwonder]

thank you for the input, ive read some of the games in one of the stickied topics and im begginning to get a better feel for how people balance production cities with commerce ones and the like, i just hate to see "10 turns till random unit..." id rather have one city bouncing them at twice the rate than 2 that dont.

in any case, im gonna start a new game here in a few minutes, and try an early rush, i may even use the save in that montezuma thing, and see how i do compared to that guy. I just wanna rush a bit and see how some of the promotions pan out


i do have another question though with regards to maintance, and it differs from civ3 alot, because in civ3, you would usually raze cities to avoid culture flip, and keep your boys on the war path, then fill in later, but you didnt pay anything to have the cities, the cities just didnt, and if they were far away from palace/fp never would

i see that people early in the game like to raze all the cities except for the capital, i assume this is because capitals generally are on good areas, and sometimes have wonders/academies? or is there something more to this? another tidbit i ran across that i find intersting is the "blue circles" for settlers, someoen mentioned that these indicate a big variety of things including resources that may show up later, can annoyone confirm this?


/e also you mentioned the bonuses that chemistry give and caste system(i wasnt aware of that one or guilds) - those workshops could be very lucrative :O

while i read civilopedia and reading the bonuses that the techs give(unfortunately i still need to do this), its difficult for me to plan ahead when i dont know whats there right now im at the farm/mine phase if i want mass production, and whats more, im not sure if chemistry/guilds add tho those but id imagine that they dont. but those workshops are something im going to have consider in the future i think as its sometimes a pain to get irrigated farms and hills side by side, workshops seem like they would be much more efficient


thanks

 

[Doshin]

Don't build Workshops until the late game. I mentioned them because they improve much more than Mines with the acquisition of certain techs. A large number of players will start converting improvements into Workshops and Watermills when they are close to Communism, an Industrial Age technology which enables the State Property civic. Mines, farms, and cottages should be built in the early game.

I'm not sure what threads you've read, but I personally don't raze cities. I think this is generally done on slower game speeds (Epic/Marathon) because, if you're playing on a low difficult setting, you can win an entire game with a single rush. Certain HoF players will also raze cities to secure an earlier victory date (again, not my area of expertise).

Maintenance is a problem before Currency (= +1 trade route per city) and Code of Laws (= Courthouses). With these techs, your economy can recover from an early rush.

 

[Ghpstage]

i imagine if i ever move up to deity i may have to reverse this and instead go all banking, and buy my techs, either way i feel like i have to choose...

I'll just pick this out for now. It will not work as mechanics were put in place to prevent the buy all techs strategy which was so loved in civ 3. Specifically AIs that aren't Friendly will stop trading techs to you once you have recieved a certain number of techs in trades (each AI has its own specific limit and they do forget slowly over time though, its known as WFYABTA after the reason the AIs give for it 'We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced), and are generally less willing to trade their techs to the player than in civ 3.

 

[blunderwonder]

thanks for the advice everyone


the game i just played im in a situation like doshin is describing me(some sort of indian with a UU warrior 2attack with 100% vs archer) and greeks on same continent, so i wiped them out with my uu and swordsmen because as it turns out there was no copper or stone on the whole continent. but now after i have colonized the whole continent, and the little island under it, im behind in techs after meeting china/aztects across the globe, and to make matters worse, i cant have science above 40% because of maintenance costs lol... idk, if anyone to look at the save i could use some advice, though im unsure how to attach a save on here unless it can be done with photobucket.


this is the opposite from the last game i played where i didnt get a good expansion, and had little to no production of the military kind, but i had money/research coming out the wazoo with only 5-6 cities... tech lead and everything... its weird though, because it feels like playing for a tech lead is a bad idea coming from civ3 - i dont like being without each strat resource, and i like to have luxury/health items as well i cant help it

 

[blunderwonder]

i think i got it these are the two saves from the last games ive played, any tips would be appreciated


View attachment marh4.Civ4SavedGame



View attachment marj8.Civ4SavedGame

 

[babar]

I think it's worth adding that World Wonders are not as good as they were in previous Civ games. There are a few early wonders - Pyramids, Great Lighthouse, Great Library, and Colossus for example, that can be very good in the right circumstances, but often even the best ones are not worth the investment, especially if you aren't Industrious and don't have the appropriate resource. I'm not saying you should never build any of the other Wonders, but they tend to be a little underpowered.

Several National Wonders on the other hand, can be very powerful. For example, a common strategy is to cottage up your capital, run Bureaucracy, and build Oxford. A good one can produce half your empire's research easily.

The idea of using banks, markets and grocers to buy techs off the AI is not something I've tried. It won't work on higher levels because the AIs trade unfairly, and on all levels it is easier, more efficient, and more useful to get a tech lead by conventional research with a few libraries, an academy, and maybe some bulbing. What you're proposing sounds kind of similar to an espionage economy, which you don't have access to in vanilla (you're not missing much there as far as I'm concerned...).

 

[blunderwonder]

by the way, marh4 is the one with the early rush ofc, and i dont think im going to do that anymore, its costing me tech after tech just to keep some random cities... 8 maintance, and no trade routes thats a serious waste of a city... but i wanted the whole thing to myself meh.. i suppose it might be possible to catch back up, but now im so far behind in techs itll be a serious pain and theres only 2 people left to trade with. I think i like the idea of waiting for rifleman/calvary/cannons and then going after someone, after i already have infrastructure and low costs like on the china one makes more sense to me, make a good friend and keep up in techs then trying and thrash them in the middle game. This big empire thing is going to be an issue more and more for me ill have to do some more reading on the maintanence thing


/e ya im reading what you said and thats how i turned out with china.. fewers cities, with less maintance, and my capital and like one other city have most of the research. I think im just gonna try to midgame rush for domination, i dont see how I can catch up in the other game, im going to finish both games soon, i think theyre both winnable via domination or maybe some other victory type for the china one

 

[lymond]

Yeah, I see a few problems here. (it is much better to review early game saves to help you out although we can try to ascertain some of the past issues....early game is so important).

Most Important Tech in the Game: Currency (Ideally you get this in the BCs unless isolated...it will change your game)

You want Bureaucracy much much much much earlier than now. Basically, it looks like your Tech choices/tech paths are totally out of whack, which is common with newer players. This is something you need to work on and it takes practice.

Ideally, you would have teched Education (most likely bulbed it) and built Oxford 500 to 1000 years early on this level. You are way way behind in this game although you do have a lot of cities.

Universal suffrage is generally a poor option early game (not sure how long you have been running it) if you build mids. You just don't generate the massive amounts of cash as you do later game with mass cottage development or great merchant income. Representation is going to be far more beneficial to you for a long time.

On Prince, once you have mastered a few things, the tech situation in comparison to...say...Mao..should be totally reversed as you will completely blow away the AIs.

Again....get BTS with BUG/BULL mod....you will not regret it.

 

[lymond]

whoa...5 workers...you should have about 16 to 17 workers by now

Pyramids (Mids) is a wonder that is generally going to be built in the BCs. On lower levels like Prince, sometimes it goes late. 1100AD is very very late...wow. If you are going to build it and make use of it (generally always Representation) build it early. Otherwise, what I see here is that you are just building wonders for the sake of building wonders.

It is good you took out Greece....maybe...but I see no plan here. Just going through the motions.

This game is toast IMO. I recommend stepping back and focusing a bit on the early game with our help....even if you don't finish the games. Learn to play the first 100 turns effectively....after you get BTS

There is much to work on here, but you will get the hang of it soon.

 

[blunderwonder]

whoa...5 workers...you should have about 16 to 17 workers by now

Pyramids (Mids) is a wonder that is generally going to be built in the BCs. On lower levels like Prince, sometimes it goes late. 1100AD is very very late...wow. If you are going to build it and make use of it (generally always Representation) build it early. Otherwise, what I see here is that you are just building wonders for the sake of building wonders.

It is good you took out Greece....maybe...but I see no plan here. Just going through the motions.

This game is toast IMO. I recommend stepping back and focusing a bit on the early game with our help....even if you don't finish the games. Learn to play the first 100 turns effectively....after you get BTS

There is much to work on here, but you will get the hang of it soon.

thanks for the advice I just read "the curious cat" or whatever that was hidden in there, i dont think its in war academy or i would have caught i think, anyways, im gonna try another map, and ill post a save maybe 40 and 100 moves in or so, im not actually sure... the first 40 go pretty quick, but i do intend to overlap a little more now and avoid having mroe than 9 cities for sure at least until i can get the infrastructure to support more maintance due to # of cites and the distances


and as for the wonders, im not great with using the civics, and w/o philosophic and a nice plot of land i dont see myself trying to bang out lots of GPs until i get national epic and pacifism, so i dont really like the representation thing because i dont use specialists THAT often, that whole first column of choices sort of baffles me, i can see them mattering more at higher diffs thought because of the smiley faces


as for all the wonder building in the save, thats because there was nothing else to build so i figured i could use the gold if one of them popped or whatever. With regards to wonders, i dont intend on developing any real strategy for using them because i dont plan on being able to get any of them w/o a GE in the future


im goign to check back here in a bit, if you wouldnt mind directing me to someplace where they have vanilla saves, i wouldnt mind playing one in order to compare it to someone else after 100-150 moves or whatever, i looked in that stickied post but none of them original saves from move #1 are posted

 

[lymond]

Took another look at your game. Looks like you have only produced one Great Person (curious as to what you popped and what you did with it) which is very very bad.

40 and 100 moves in or so, im not actually sure

Actually, the best thing is to post a start save and screenshot. Get some advice before playing and play in short 20 turn sets. Best way to learn outside articles and Let's plays.

i dont use specialists THAT often

Which is a big problem with your game. Don't fret. We can work on all that. Eventually the light bulb will click. Representation is a very powerful civic as is Hereditary Rule just for the happiness. Even running a few scientists early pay off in Rep and you can usually do that no matter what.

thats because there was nothing else to build s

There's always Wealth and Research, if you have Currency that is

if you wouldnt mind directing me to someplace where they have vanilla saves

No one plays vanilla anymore - you'd have to search some old posts on the forum (actually try ALC - All Leader's Challenge as the first few were vanilla i think). Well, except of the vanilla GOTMs. You can check there for old saves. Here is a link to that one:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/results/index.php?month=49999

(Note: 1) Drop down list 2) You can download any player's final save from the results table 3) At the top, you can download the Worldbuilder save which can allow you to play.)

You will need the HOF mod for Vanilla to play those. (Actually it is better to play with the HOF mod as it adds some nice UI features as sort of a precursor to the BUG mod... open the options and click some check boxes to add features). You can find it here:

HOF MOd

And Dude, get BTS!

 

[blunderwonder]

I will look into bts soon, i was going to wait till thanksgiving/xmas and get myself a copy of civ5 but i doubt my pc will be able to run it, and i still have plenty of fun left with civ4 so i will look into bts soon enough. as for the HOF mod, i looked at the link but for now i will stick to vanilla as i dont particularly like playing with those unless its for a scenario like ancient greece or the civil war and you need cannon/catapults to do what theyre supposed to.

i would rather just post the saves, not because i cant use photobucket but because i dont know exactly when to take s/s's unles you have some info on that. I will post a starting pic of my next game. One of the other issues with all this advice is that the scenario changes every time, last night i played one where I was on a continent alone, after i cleared out all the barbs, i skipped religious stuff, grabbed bw and mc, and then just clicked optics, found the other 2-3 civs i forget how many were left, and i was the first to circunavigate the globe first time.


btw, i would appreciate a rule of thumb on the specialists thing... I dont want to seem like an idiot but i really dont get it... plus, every time i plan on making one city a gp farm, i only end up with 1-2 specialists there, and w/o pacifism or philosp leader it just seems pointless to try, in those cases, i tend to put a engineer in on city with extra food from forge, and and a scientists in the other, i figure that nets me like 3-5 GPS per game, a scientists or two fro the academy and a bulb, and 2 engineers for whatever i need. I think my favorite wonder is hanging gardens in some games, and perhaps notre dame in others depending on the situation, i also like oxford but i tend to forget about it usually

im gonna start a new game in a minute, and ill try to post some screens and ask for advice on how to handle the early/mid game, i can figure out how to early rush and rex all on my own, its the buildings and the techs that confuse me because im the type to put a granary/forge/baracks/library/lighthouse in every city, and usually an aqueduct also, then usually comes theatre and colluseams

 

[coanda]

i would rather just post the saves, not because i cant use photobucket but because i dont know exactly when to take s/s's unles you have some info on that.

Make sure to take a couple screenshots moving your camera around to show where all your cities and neighbors are, and turn resource bubbles on (control + R). Otherwise, take screenshots of whatever is relevant to the specific issue you're discussing. Shots of individual city screens are often relevant; a shot of the f6 tech advisor can be useful. If planning a war, a shot of your stack, their stack (if you can see it), and your f5 military advisor can be useful. If wondering about diplomacy, the f4 tech trades, f4 relations at-a-glance, and f4 initial overview can be valuable. If contemplating end-game, the f8 victories screen is useful. And so forth.

btw, i would appreciate a rule of thumb on the specialists thing... I dont want to seem like an idiot but i really dont get it... plus, every time i plan on making one city a gp farm, i only end up with 1-2 specialists there, and w/o pacifism or philosp leader it just seems pointless to try, in those cases, i tend to put a engineer in on city with extra food from forge, and and a scientists in the other, i figure that nets me like 3-5 GPS per game, a scientists or two fro the academy and a bulb, and 2 engineers for whatever i need.

Specialists are... complicated. But basically...
1. Two scientists per city don't get you many GP, but they will get you your first GS or two in reasonable time.
2. With Literature, you may find it convenient to pick up Great Library. If that lines up well with your land and game plan, you get 2 free scientist specialists (eat no food, take no pop, but generate beakers and GPP just like if you were working a scientist). That makes your GP farm significantly more effective at producing GS points.
3. Caste System is a common transition out of Slavery once your initial burst of expansion is done, if you aren't planning a war any time soon. It lets you run unlimited (well, as many as you have population and food for) scientists in a city. So now if you have a city working, say, 2 fish, a clam, and a grass farm... you could work 7 scientists there (if you could get happy cap up to 11). That will generate GP very quickly, even later in the game.
4. There are many ways of boosting your GPP production. You touch on Pacifism and PHI leaders (both of which give +100%). Also of note are National Epic (which gives +100% in the city it is built in, and should always be built in your GP farm) and golden ages (which give +100% for the duration of the golden age).
5. Recognize the "Great" in "Great Person." A great scientist can bulb about 1500 beakers... so if you work scientists to generate a GS, and that is your fourth GS, you need 400 GPP to make him. That's 134 scientist-turns, which means each of your scientists is contributing 1500/134 = 11 more beakers per turn in tech bulbing potential. That is to say... it may look like your scientists are giving a lousy return of just 3 beakers, but they're actually giving you potentially 14 beakers per turn. Similarly, a Great Merchant might run a trade mission for 1000+ gold, which will likely become 1250-1750 beakers through boosted research slider and library + academy multipliers. And so forth.

If you're feeling fancy, many players will spend one great person to start a golden age (which also means you can now change civics instantly). They swap into Caste System, then tell their high-food-surplus cities to run as many specialists as they can - even to the point of starving down a size or two over the next 8 turns. Also swap into Pacifism if possible.
A Pacifism + National Epic + Golden Age city gets 12 GPP per specialist. If you don't mind slowly starving, you can often work 6-8 specialists in that city. That means over 7 turns in a golden age, you might well generate 500+ GPP in that one city.

Another fancy trick for Spiritual leaders is to swap back and forth between Caste System and Slavery. Swap to slavery, whip your cities and work high-food tiles. Swap back to Caste System as soon as your cities have grown back, work a bunch of scientists and stagnate your city. When whip unhappiness has worn off, swap back to slavery. Or you might whip some cities (production-ish cities) while in slavery, and stockpile food in your specialist cities. Then when you swap to Caste System, you grow your production cities back up to size and starve your specialist cities down a bit working extra specs. Neither of these let you produce GP faster than simply staying in Caste System, but they will let you get most of the benefits of Slavery at the same time in some games.

 

[Ghpstage]

One thing people should remember is that the OP is playing vanilla civ 4 not BTS.
This means building Wealth/Research are nerfed to hell (compared to BTS), workshops dont gain an extra hammer for running Caste System and Golden Ages do not prevent anarchy from changing religions or civics (they are also require more GPs to start).