MP Game - RewriteHistory - 18civ EARTH map historical start position

[Amask]

it was a double move in that you only waited 2h after taking your first turn before taking the final game-ending-for-elkad turn
we didn't have any rules about this, but we should have
like giving a player 6-9 hours in the beginning of the next turn if he was the first to move during the last turn
a rule like that seems viable to me, as that leaves between 20-6=14 or 20-9=11 hours for you to still take your turn AFTER him
maybe not 11, but 14 hours should be doable for everyone, I don't think anyone here works 14 hour shifts or sleeps for 14 hours, so you'd be near a computer at least once within that time

anyway, I vote for a reload, since it WAS a double move (2h is usually not enough for a player to log on and see what changed since last time), and it DID have such a big impact on the game

give elkad a chance to move his warrior back to the capital if that's what he says he was going to do

 

[Amask]

also, I'll be away till monday evening, got moves queued up
if you do reload though, I think I'll have my warrior outside my capital (was chasing some evil animals)
chances are 1% that a barb will appear and kill me before monday when I get a chance to move him back
hopefully that doesn't happen

 

[bamf226]

How is it a double move? I thought a double move was when you wait until last thing to play your turn and then on the new turn move immediately. On the turn I took your captial I moved at a later time than on the last turn.

So how is that a double move?

A double move is when you move twice without letting your opponent take a move. If you declared war and did not allow Elkad to move before your second move, you committed a double turn.

 

[bamf226]

anyway, I vote for a reload, since it WAS a double move (2h is usually not enough for a player to log on and see what changed since last time), and it DID have such a big impact on the game

give elkad a chance to move his warrior back to the capital if that's what he says he was going to do

I vote for the reload as well. I don't know why Elkad WOULDN'T do what he said he was going to do. Just because zen said it wasn't a conquer move, I still wouldn't trust anyone in my territory with an unguarded capital.

 

[Elkad]

Regardless of what Zen said, and if I trusted him, Adrian said

Once war is declared i can do everything a war strategy means including capturing your capital.

So if Adrian was inposition to take my capital as well (likely, and Zen said so), then I would have moved my warrior home for sure.

 

[whiplash_CDC]

also, I'll be away till monday evening, got moves queued up
if you do reload though, I think I'll have my warrior outside my capital (was chasing some evil animals)
chances are 1% that a barb will appear and kill me before monday when I get a chance to move him back
hopefully that doesn't happen

Who are you in the game?
Also, what is the latest time you can play in the game before you leave?

 

[Elkad]

I believe Amask=BS_Prophet of Mali. Moved after Zen this turn, so a reload would affect him (unless he's still here and can redo his moves)

 

[Ulfang]

Zen, that was just wrong to publicly state your actions and then go against that due to convenience. I hope you are ready to work alone as no one can trust you now.

I find the most sensible strategy when dealing with war/politics is simple ... trust no one

I really think this so called "storm" is a bit over the top. This is a wargame. We are supposed to be playing the parts of nations who's only strategy should be to protect their own interests and develop their nation any way possible. It's great to be able to trust another nation but the reality is everyone wants to do the best for their nation and how you achieve that is upto you. If there's an opportunity to easily get rid of an opponent you take it. To not do so would be unwise in the long run.

In game terms there is wisdom in having a rule where no one can delcare war on each other for so many terms and if I remember rightly there is a way to setup the game where it's not possible to declare war for so many turns but that would have to be decided at the beginning of the game. One of the PBEM's I played didn't allow war for about 20 turns or something like that so assume there's the same option in a Pitboss game!?

Paranoia is often the best strategy.... trust no one, take your opportunities when they present themselves and don't take things personally. It is only a game

re: double moves I didn't realise about this? I hadn't thought about it to be honest. I had assumed everyone's turns were silmultaneous not having really thought about it but guess that wouldn't make sense. Don't think there's anything that can be done about that though. When I log in I don't look who's taken their turn I just take mine if I can and if the game allows you to do a double move I don't see there's much anyone can do about it.

Minor correction, my friend, your resource is marble.

Marble ... iron ... potato ... potatoe

 

[Elkad]

Misplaced trust didn't eliminate me. A double-move did.

 

[Ulfang]

Misplaced trust didn't eliminate me. A double-move did.

Well I didn't know anything about this double move thing till recently but surely having an undefended captial eliminated you? I understand your stance here but if there was any possibility of losing your capital whether by fair means or foul... if it was a possibility surely the best strategy is to err on the side of caution?

I would probably have supported the idea of so many turns before anyone could declare war in order to protect all players early on. Not realistic perhaps but as game mechanics go surely that would have been sensible but as it wasn't decided at the start there's not a lot that can be done.

 

[Amask]

I'm BS_Prophet of the glorious Mali
I think I'll still be around at 3pm

as for tracking double moves - civstats makes everything so much easier
it's evident that a lot of you don't use it, I can't comprehend why you wouldn't
just add the page to favourites, loads in no time
that way you also don't have to log in to check if a new turn is up, like so many people are doing (maybe not in this game, havne't been paying attention, but it happens a lot in general)

 

[Elkad]

If the rules state "thou shalt make an effort to avoid double-moving during wartime", then double-moving someone is either
A) An accident. Reload to correct the error
B) Blatant Cheating. Reload to correct the issue

I dunno that we actually made an offical rule on double moves, but we had some discussion of it on the first couple pages and every other MP game I've been in has one.

 

[whiplash_CDC]

Backstabbing, misinformation, deception are common strategies. There is no way these can be taken out of the game. Players just need to expect to be betrayed and prepare themselves.

The double move, on the other hand, is an exploit of the game mechanics. The turns are "simultaneous" as far as PitBoss is concerned; but in reality, they are sequential and the sequence depends upon the timing of players entering the game.

Most PitBoss games have a rule prohibiting a double move in wartime. We should have one.

 

[adyyc]

I feel sorry for Elkad... but...
What i can say now after i was part of hostile actions is that Elkad prefers to defend his worker than retreat it. If the capital is empty you assume the risk.
I have two wariors for few turns... this mean eklad negleted military also... he took the risk of building first a worker.

I think more than 20 turns peace was enought for Persia. I could declare war from the beginning.

I do not agree double move rules.
Lets say is 5pm to me... if i have to wait 6 hrs i would have to play the turn at 11pm.
11pm is a very late hour for me and i ussually sleep at that time. The deepest sleep is between 11pm and 1 am ... staying awake after 11pm is not recommended by doctors.
In the morning i will wakeup and go to work/faculty. I do not mhave the time to play civ4.
I think letting 1-2 hours to play a turn for the other party is reasonable enough.
This is just a game!

I will still try to fit to majority.

 

[whiplash_CDC]

You can see the unedited map by going to the download section and finding the Huge Earth map blank or something like that. That map is the basis of the the map we will be using but the terrian needs to be edited considerably to make it playable. I can't show the edited map until it is finished and it can't be finished until I all players have chosen their civs because the historical starting places require manual placement. But I don't see why you need to see the map to make a decision.

In addition to whiplash's comment on pitboss I would only add that on pitboss (usually) turns are played simultaneously not sequentially. This is much speedier than the PBEM style sequential turn but does open the up possiblity of players 'double moveing'. This is considered cheating especially in wartime.

This is post #48 on page three. The game host has clearly prohibited the use of a double move during wartime. The fact that host ends up being the violator of his own rule is rather amazing. Anyway, the way I read this is that a rule violation has ocurred and Eklad is entitled to a reload.

I was needing some time to do some system updates so I don't mind keeping this down until after the weekend. That would also allow Amask to get back in without missing turns.

We can use that time to sort this out.

 

[adyyc]

The double move was not clearly defined.

 

[whiplash_CDC]

My final decision is Ottomans. I will tell you the leader.
When i was playing civ3 online on gamespy in simulataneus turns double moving was NOT considered cheat. Good to know that this is considered cheat here... or is not an official rule?
What time delay to play turns is set in this game?... 24 h are kinda fast for me... i would prefer 48h.

You seem to have understood it when you posted this.

 

[whiplash_CDC]

I suggest that this be resolved by consensus of the players not involved in the incident.

 

[Elkad]

I suggest that this be resolved by consensus of the players not involved in the incident.

Fine by me

 

[bamf226]

re: double moves I didn't realise about this? I hadn't thought about it to be honest. I had assumed everyone's turns were silmultaneous not having really thought about it but guess that wouldn't make sense. Don't think there's anything that can be done about that though. When I log in I don't look who's taken their turn I just take mine if I can and if the game allows you to do a double move I don't see there's much anyone can do about it.

Technically, there is no way to prevent it, but a written house rule would suffice. Most games specifically state that up front, but as a whole a double move is a known no-no.