MPMPM - Multiplayer Mod DLC-hack (Updated!)

[Elemental Wolf]

That's a lot of stuff to leave to an honor system. :O

Yeah, it is. Granted, there is some level of accountability, but there are still plenty of things that could go wrong.

You might be happy to know that the "leader" magical girl concept is making its way into the actual mod. She'll replace the turn 1 settler, and be represented as the first contracted MG who got humanity (well, your civilization's humanity) out of the Stone Age. She contracts when you settle your first city, which also triggers the discovery of agriculture. Details are being worked out, but expect it in the first big update after I'm done with my civ revamps.

Awesome! I appreciate that you took the time to read through that list, and I'm equally excited for the leader concept working its way into the mod.

 

[Vicevirtuoso]

Few more details on leaders:

Female leaders will have their leader magical girl be the actual Civ leader.
Male leaders will either have one of the generic MG names, or a special override determined on a per-civ basis. Example: Washington's leader MG is Martha Washington. Napoleon's will be Marie Antoinette. Snake's will be The Boss.
You can choose the type of MG skills they get, once the Skill Tree is available. (This will normally be determined by the expended prodigy type.)
Leaders, if killed or at 0% SG, will return after 10 turns on standard (like UM's MGs). There will be a game option that causes leader MG deaths/witchouts to cause instant civ elimination, though. This option will make them seriously powerful as compensation.
Relationships between leader MGs will affect diplomatic relations between Civs.
UM and DH don't get leader MGs.
Shirome gets two leader MGs, but they're weaker than normal. They'll lose the free spy when this is implemented.
Pleiades' leader is Michiru Kazusa, and can die permanently even if the option allowing them to is turned off. You can use the Freezer to clone her, though.

 

[Elemental Wolf]

Few more details on leaders:

Female leaders will have their leader magical girl be the actual Civ leader.
Male leaders will either have one of the generic MG names, or a special override determined on a per-civ basis. Example: Washington's leader MG is Martha Washington. Napoleon's will be Marie Antoinette. Snake's will be The Boss.

I like this idea.

You can choose the type of MG skills they get, once the Skill Tree is available. (This will normally be determined by the expended prodigy type.)

Interesting. Would the choice of prodigies be restricted though? A prophet prodigy could start a very early religion, and an admiral prodigy likely shouldn't be an option if you have no naval access. (Or would it just appear in the nearest body of water, regardless of how far that may be?)

Leaders, if killed or at 0% SG, will return after 10 turns on standard (like UM's MGs). There will be a game option that causes leader MG deaths/witchouts to cause instant civ elimination, though. This option will make them seriously powerful as compensation.

As long as the AI doesn't suicide throw their leader into the front lines in every war, I imagine I'll be leaving the instant elimination option on most games.

Relationships between leader MGs will affect diplomatic relations between Civs.

Alright. Will this go through the "Random Personalities" option? I've also noticed that some relationships are more... complicated. Spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched the anime.

Spoiler :

Homura's relationship with most of them, excluding Madoka but especially including Mami, varies depending on the timeline. Kyouko and Sayaka start out trying to kill each other but eventually end up as friends. How would these relationships translate? On the basis of what's "most consistent" or will we see some love-hate relationships in-game?"

UM and DH don't get leader MGs.
Shirome gets two leader MGs, but they're weaker than normal. They'll lose the free spy when this is implemented.
Pleiades' leader is Michiru Kazusa, and can die permanently even if the option allowing them to is turned off. You can use the Freezer to clone her, though.

Heh. How many clones of Michiru can we expect to see running around at the same time? Will there be a limit?

 

[Haken Browning]

Female leaders will have their leader magical girl be the actual Civ leader.
Male leaders will either have one of the generic MG names, or a special override determined on a per-civ basis. Example: Washington's leader MG is Martha Washington. Napoleon's will be Marie Antoinette. Snake's will be The Boss.

Wither Arturia? She's not recognized as female unless you're playing with Events and Decisions on and becoming Saber Lily that way. Does she get Rin for consistency, or Nero for Saber solidarity?

Speaking of Rin, why isn't there a "Remove Your Ahoge" option to become Saber Alter instead?

Furthermore, I hope you meant to say the Leader MG will replace your Turn 1 Warrior. Having it replace the Settler will make life a lot more difficult without clever promotioncraft.

 

[emeralis00]

Furthermore, I hope you meant to say the Leader MG will replace your Turn 1 Warrior. Having it replace the Settler will make life a lot more difficult without clever promotioncraft.

I think he means when you use your settler, you will spawn the MG. Since you don't expend the warrior, how will you spawn the MG that way?

 

[Haken Browning]

I think he means when you use your settler, you will spawn the MG. Since you don't expend the warrior, how will you spawn the MG that way?

My reasoning was that you didn't, and the MG just replaced your Warrior as one of the two starting units.

But I guess it'd work out the same way by tagging the starting Settler with a "becomes a Magical Girl when expended" promotion. I'm reminded of Civ 4 being more forgiving with starting placement and giving its opening settler an "Ignore Terrain Cost" promotion along similar lines.

 

[Vicevirtuoso]

Interesting. Would the choice of prodigies be restricted though? A prophet prodigy could start a very early religion, and an admiral prodigy likely shouldn't be an option if you have no naval access. (Or would it just appear in the nearest body of water, regardless of how far that may be?)

It's not going to be like popping a prodigy/GP at the very beginning. It'll have a special UI popup when you click the City Found button, and it'll explain that the wish your leader makes is going to change the destiny of your whole Civilization. It will have one general effect and will affect what Entertainment, a new yield which is coming in the next big update, will provide in addition to its abilities of keeping your Magical Girls happy and helping convince enemy Magical Girls to defect to your nation. Here's a tentative list:

• Scientist: Receive Golden Age points when you discover a new Technology. Entertainment increases Science.
• Engineer: +10% Production when constructing Buildings. Entertainment increases Production.
• Merchant: Receive 1 Gold for every 3 Citizens in a City. Entertainment increases Gold.
• Writer: Production bonus in the Capital when you discover a Social Policy. Entertainment increases Culture.
• Artist: Golden Ages provide +10% Science and +5% Growth in addition to their regular effects. Entertainment provides Golden Age points.
• Musician: Tourism increases Entertainment. Entertainment increases Tourism. Both of these effects are calculated individually and are then applied, so one does not affect the values of the other.
• Prophet: Receive 1 Faith in your Capital and a free Shrine upon discovering Pottery. Entertainment provides Faith.
• General: +10% Production when constructing Land Units and 4 Units are maintenance free. Entertainment increases XP for Units trained in the City.
• Admiral: Enables coastal embarkation from the beginning and ocean embarkation upon discovering Optics. Entertainment slightly improves all yields in Cities on a continent other than the one your Capital is on. Only available if you settle a Coastal Capital. Polynesia will get some other benefit that I haven't determined.

As long as the AI doesn't suicide throw their leader into the front lines in every war, I imagine I'll be leaving the instant elimination option on most games.

I'll be sure to put some AI scripts in to make it protective of its leader.

Alright. Will this go through the "Random Personalities" option? I've also noticed that some relationships are more... complicated.

I'm actually referring to the Relationships system which I plan to implement in the second upcoming big update (the first one is Leaders, Personalities, Mood, and Entertainment). Each MG will have relationships with each other which improve by fighting together, talking, etc. The relationships between two leader MGs will also be represented in the diplomacy between those leaders' Civs. It's player-driven, so you could easily go off the rails and have Madoka insult Homura until they become enemies.

Heh. How many clones of Michiru can we expect to see running around at the same time? Will there be a limit?

Just one at a time.

Spoiler :

Michiru has to die before the Pleiades get the idea of cloning her, after all.
I'm going to implement a way to allow one of the clones to turn into "Kazumi Subaru," who is going to be obscenely powerful but will take some serious work with the Freezer to obtain, and will actually require Michiru to have been killed (and likely more than a few of her clones).

Wither Arturia? She's not recognized as female unless you're playing with Events and Decisions on and becoming Saber Lily that way. Does she get Rin for consistency, or Nero for Saber solidarity?

Arturia's gonna be the leader. If Merlin can convince a whole country that she's a man, then surely Kyubey can.

Speaking of Rin, why isn't there a "Remove Your Ahoge" option to become Saber Alter instead?

Having two leader conversions as the Decisions felt like it would have been too similar to Snake's Decisions.

Furthermore, I hope you meant to say the Leader MG will replace your Turn 1 Warrior. Having it replace the Settler will make life a lot more difficult without clever promotioncraft.

It replaces the Settler. The unit is going to be called something like "First Prodigy"; haven't decided yet. It has its own unique variant of the Settle City button that pops up the UI of choosing your leader's MG type prior to the City being plopped down. I'll have an option in WishForTheWorldOptions.sql to give it a 10-movement ignore terrain promotion, if you're one of those who likes the Speedy Starting Settler mod.



Edit: few more things:
Homura's Time Stop is going to be triggered as a mission from her leader MG representation once it's implemented, rather than that UI button. (This is why said button is called TempHomuraTimeStopButton)
If your leader MG dies and Instant Elimination isn't on, it puts your Civ in Anarchy.
Homura recovers twice as fast if she dies as the leader MG. With Instant Elimination on, she doesn't get as many buffs as the other leaders will, but she has two lives.
Mami and Madoka will get updated traits. Haven't worked out the details.

 

[Elemental Wolf]

It's not going to be like popping a prodigy/GP at the very beginning. It'll have a special UI popup when you click the City Found button, and it'll explain that the wish your leader makes is going to change the destiny of your whole Civilization. It will have one general effect and will affect what Entertainment, a new yield which is coming in the next big update, will provide in addition to its abilities of keeping your Magical Girls happy and helping convince enemy Magical Girls to defect to your nation. Here's a tentative list:

Spoiler :

• Scientist: Receive Golden Age points when you discover a new Technology. Entertainment increases Science.
• Engineer: +10% Production when constructing Buildings. Entertainment increases Production.
• Merchant: Receive 1 Gold for every 3 Citizens in a City. Entertainment increases Gold.
• Writer: Production bonus in the Capital when you discover a Social Policy. Entertainment increases Culture.
• Artist: Golden Ages provide +10% Science and +5% Growth in addition to their regular effects. Entertainment provides Golden Age points.
• Musician: Tourism increases Entertainment. Entertainment increases Tourism. Both of these effects are calculated individually and are then applied, so one does not affect the values of the other.
• Prophet: Receive 1 Faith in your Capital and a free Shrine upon discovering Pottery. Entertainment provides Faith.
• General: +10% Production when constructing Land Units and 4 Units are maintenance free. Entertainment increases XP for Units trained in the City.
• Admiral: Enables coastal embarkation from the beginning and ocean embarkation upon discovering Optics. Entertainment slightly improves all yields in Cities on a continent other than the one your Capital is on. Only available if you settle a Coastal Capital. Polynesia will get some other benefit that I haven't determined.

Ah, that makes sense. I actually like that a lot. Adds more impact and consequence to the early game.

I did notice Madoka's "Middle School" structure is set up in advance to raise entertainment (though right now it just increases prodigy generation rate). Besides this and selecting musician from the above menu, how else will the entertainment value be boosted?

I'll be sure to put some AI scripts in to make it protective of its leader.

Cool. That should make things interesting. If I may offer a suggestion, can you make it so the players receive a notification when their leader drops below 20% SG? I personally tend to end up with a lot of MGs and may make the fatal mistake of not realizing how low my leader is getting. I've had some MGs become witches while I had a dozen Grief Seeds in my pocket. (Sorry about that girls! I'm a terrible caretaker.)

I'm actually referring to the Relationships system which I plan to implement in the second upcoming big update (the first one is Leaders, Personalities, Mood, and Entertainment). Each MG will have relationships with each other which improve by fighting together, talking, etc. The relationships between two leader MGs will also be represented in the diplomacy between those leaders' Civs. It's player-driven, so you could easily go off the rails and have Madoka insult Homura until they become enemies.

Ok then, that's sure to be interesting. You sure are ambitious with all these new mechanics.

Just one at a time.

Spoiler :

Michiru has to die before the Pleiades get the idea of cloning her, after all.
I'm going to implement a way to allow one of the clones to turn into "Kazumi Subaru," who is going to be obscenely powerful but will take some serious work with the Freezer to obtain, and will actually require Michiru to have been killed (and likely more than a few of her clones).

Alright, but what would the elimination condition for them be then? Or are they immune to it like UM and DH?

Edit: few more things:
Homura's Time Stop is going to be triggered as a mission from her leader MG representation once it's implemented, rather than that UI button.

She'll stop the whole world herself if that's what it takes.

 

[Vicevirtuoso]

I did notice Madoka's "Middle School" structure is set up in advance to raise entertainment (though right now it just increases prodigy generation rate). Besides this and selecting musician from the above menu, how else will the entertainment value be boosted?

Multiple new buildings are gonna be added. List of the ones coming in the first update is here. There will also be a few new Wonders which boost it, like the Rungrado May Day Stadium. There are also going to be means of boosting Entertainment by Policies and Beliefs.

If I may offer a suggestion, can you make it so the players receive a notification when their leader drops below 20% SG?

I've had this requested multiple times and I just keep forgetting to put it in. It'll be in the next update. Also, a Magical Girl Overview is coming.

Alright, but what would the elimination condition for them be then? Or are they immune to it like UM and DH?

With Instant Elimination on, UM/DH/Pleiades will be completely wiped out as soon as they lose their Capitals.



Edit: This is a Modpack Maker thread, not a WFTW thread, so I should quit spamming it up with WFTW discussion. Let's move to my lonely little thread for WFTW-specific stuff.

 

[Boltasar]

I've been trying to create a small modpack containing only the 15 touhou civs that are currently on the workshop, and although I did edit all the xml file names of the mods that needed it (all of Graan and Huitzil's touhou mods) and the corresponding line in their .info file. The game does start correctly, but after trying to start with one of their civs nothing actually loads. When you select them you keep the art of the previous selected civ, and when you try starting with them you end up with an empty loading screen, and after loading there are no settler or warrior and then the game crashes. I'm also quite new to the whole modding world of civ V, (I started the day before to play those touhou mods with some of my friends) so I can't really find what I'm doing wrong myself.

 

[Haken Browning]

I think Aya Shameimaru might be breaking that; unlike Graan/Huitzil's civs where EVERY non-leader XML file needs renamed from a default to load safely at runtime, some of her files use default names and some don't.

I personally don't recommend including her, as the creator has stated she's made to be on the level with a Chinese-only series of Touhou civs rather than the others on Workshop.

 

[Boltasar]

I think Aya Shameimaru might be breaking that; unlike Graan/Huitzil's civs where EVERY non-leader XML file needs renamed from a default to load safely at runtime, some of her files use default names and some don't.

I personally don't recommend including her, as the creator has stated she's made to be on the level with a Chinese-only series of Touhou civs rather than the others on Workshop.

Ah, thanks, she was the bottleneck, I didn't notice that she had some that did use default names. After renaming those the pack does start and a game can be start, though I'm not sure if it works with all of the civs yet, it didn't crash on startup nor did it crash when loading Cirno.

Another problem I ran into is that I can't scroll in a single player game when selecting a civ (In advance setup you can still select civs in the non art menu), this happens both when loaded as mods or as MPmodpack.

 

[cicero225]

Ah, thanks, she was the bottleneck, I didn't notice that she had some that did use default names. After renaming those the pack does start and a game can be start, though I'm not sure if it works with all of the civs yet, it didn't crash on startup nor did it crash when loading Cirno.

Another problem I ran into is that I can't scroll in a single player game when selecting a civ (In advance setup you can still select civs in the non art menu), this happens both when loaded as mods or as MPmodpack.

Being unable to scroll is a sign that the game has failed to load assets for a civ. If this happens even when the mods are loaded normally, then one of the mods is just broken, regardless of MPmodpack. You should try to isolate it by trying mods one at a time until you find the one breaking the scroll. It's possible they were just corrupted on download.

(Alternatively, if you renamed the files in your mod folder, you could have messed up while renaming)

 

[Boltasar]

Being unable to scroll is a sign that the game has failed to load assets for a civ. If this happens even when the mods are loaded normally, then one of the mods is just broken, regardless of MPmodpack. You should try to isolate it by trying mods one at a time until you find the one breaking the scroll. It's possible they were just corrupted on download.

(Alternatively, if you renamed the files in your mod folder, you could have messed up while renaming)

I see, thanks, I'll try looking for the one that's causing it and try to fix it.

--edit--

After testing and trying I found out that apparently Mugenkan was causing the problem, and Scarlet wasn't being loaded at all, though after redownloading all the mods and testing them that way they did indeed all work together, so it must have happened during my renaming. I believe to have got Scarlet working now, so I only need to work on Mugenkan.

 

[cicero225]

I see, thanks, I'll try looking for the one that's causing it and try to fix it.

--edit--

After testing and trying I found out that apparently Mugenkan was causing the problem, and Scarlet wasn't being loaded at all, though after redownloading all the mods and testing them that way they did indeed all work together, so it must have happened during my renaming. I believe to have got Scarlet working now, so I only need to work on Mugenkan.

This is why the instructions suggest renaming in the MPModspack folder rather than your own mods folder, so you're less likely to accidentally break your mod (and it won't get erased if you update a mod from steam). Once I have successfully renamed things once, I copy the folders containing renamed files and keep them on hand somewhere, so I can replace the folders every time I make the modpack. This is what I do with the old Touhou civs (I should really get around to making a link for properly renamed touhou civs).

It's all a big pain. However, I do have an idea:

Can someone test if you actually need to rewrite the .modinfo? I suspect it gets completely ignored for the MPmodpack. If it is unnecessary to change the modinfo, then I think I can just edit the lua to scan for files named certain specific things and change them. (I forget how rigidly the copying is implemented into his custom dll).

 

[Boltasar]

This is why the instructions suggest renaming in the MPModspack folder rather than your own mods folder, so you're less likely to accidentally break your mod (and it won't get erased if you update a mod from steam). Once I have successfully renamed things once, I copy the folders containing renamed files and keep them on hand somewhere, so I can replace the folders every time I make the modpack. This is what I do with the old Touhou civs (I should really get around to making a link for properly renamed touhou civs).

Ah, i totally missed those three words in the tutorial, also the reason I tend to do badly during exams.

It's all a big pain. However, I do have an idea:

Can someone test if you actually need to rewrite the .modinfo? I suspect it gets completely ignored for the MPmodpack. If it is unnecessary to change the modinfo, then I think I can just edit the lua to scan for files named certain specific things and change them. (I forget how rigidly the copying is implemented into his custom dll).

I did not test extensively, but replacing the modinfo of Cirno with the clean unedited version did not seem to affect me loading her for a single player game at all.

 

[cicero225]

I did not test extensively, but replacing the modinfo of Cirno with the clean unedited version did not seem to affect me loading her for a single player game at all.

That is good to here, but it looks like copying a folder is implemented in the dll purely as a copy - there's no argument where I can specify/change anything. I will have to look into it further...

 

[bouncymischa]

- Touhou: Most of BouncyMischa's Touhous will be given their own major-version update. Mamizou needs the mission button handler. The PC-98s are too broken for immediate consideration, but depending on how/when Mima turns out...

I'm not entirely certain how to feel about this... XD

I'm currently aiming to get Mima done by Halloween -- her functionality is around 90% completed, but getting the AI and UI code working by then is going to be the big hurdle. I've only just gotten her mostly working so playtesting is probably going to be limited, and most likely result in balance issues. Currently she can create massive hordes of undead to crush her enemies with...

(Also, Mima will use the same mission handler as Mamizou, so will have the same problem... If there's a new and improved mission handler, I'll have to see about upgrading her to it. I'll ask VV about it...)

I should really make a proper civilizations thread to see if I can get more feedback on things. Once Mima's done, I'm going to be going through my civs to update them with Events and Decisions, so it'll be a good time to do some revisions.

 

[Haken Browning]

Big Hot News for those following the Crystal Fire modpack: since the actual v7 release is delayed until Vice works out the MSF/Diamond Dogs player caching bugs in MSF v12, I'm pushing out a v7r0 to get SP and MP compatibility feedback on the big hunk of QoL updates I'm planning to add, including testing of Events and Decisions in an MP environment.

For the sake of getting comparative balance data for civs' Unique Decisions, civs without Unique Decision support (Touhous, Fire Emblems, and Recette) will be temporarily cut from the roster. Please stick to v6r3 if you wish to use these civs, or wait till they're reintegrated (and in Eirin and Cirno's cases, updated) in v7.

As compensation, the new and hopefully-mostly-debugged Fate/Zero team will make their triumphant, Wish/DVMC-compatible return. All four of them, even, because the idea of Iskander rocking an arcade T-shirt and going Highlander on Firaxis Alexander's ass amuses me.

EDIT: v7r0 lowdown added to the under-the-OP post, and download links added to the Google Doc. Assume Beta status and expect E&D-related CTDs. If you want something stable enough to MP with for 100+ turns, stick with v6r3.

 

[Vicevirtuoso]

since the actual v7 release is delayed until Vice works out the MSF/Diamond Dogs player caching bugs in MSF v12

v13 is out. The reason I couldn't find the issue is because it was only fixed in my local copy, and I forgot to copy my testing fixes over to the project.

It also included some serious oversights I missed when converting to SQL, like how I forgot to make the Metal Gear unpurchaseable with Gold/Faith and like how I forgot to give them Venice's tag of "Place First Along Ocean."