MrB1_Emeror Training C3C

[Cubic]

Solid play, Mr.B. Let's hope the Byzantines and the English neglect the lower tech path for a while - I hear a Cavalry push coming!

Byz workers start to improve our land, polite...

They might have some plans of their own for this place, it's really time to give them something to do...........

 

[batteryacid]

Here is the log made by Belisar during his turns (well, I had to edit a bit- his spelling wasn´t too good- I wonder why )

MM some core cities, set a few aqueducts in second ring cities.
Begin the war-preparations against the Sumerians.
3 new knights are currently on the way.

Shuffeled some rear-area knights but we need a few additional turns.
Traded Gunpowder and 104 gold for Education (Mongols), the Sumerians already have Astronomy.

Some builds finished, I continued on infrastructure and military simultan.
MM the science slider to get Chemistry still in 1 turn, saving 65 gold.

We get Chemistry, traded it with England and Byzanz, we get MAs against Sumeria,some second line techs and cash.
The first turns of the war will be a passive stand.

War against the Sumerians: We lost 2 pikes, I saw 3 Crusaders and 1 MDI dieing. 2 new knights finished.

MM Giza against riots, assigned a fe workers for road building.

last turns: sumer and our side lost some units, with a good ratio for us,
some buildings finished with the core now mainly producing knights

 

[batteryacid]

So- these were belisars moves, now to my turns:
Take Kuara with only one dying Knight- we get 3 slave workers in return, attak lonely MdI with remaining knight, move swords in salpeter direction to meet our knights there

We have now Metallurgy and get Military tradition in 10 turns. Others would trade Astronomy for it, but we want the techs from the Sumers after we cut them to a good size

The Sumers have a way to Kua through the swamp, but I could pillage it. The war is now on- he throws MdIs amass in our direction- hopefully we can ouresource him and gosomewhen into offensive again.

Bad news: The Byzantines took the Sumer city with the Salpeter in it - couldn´t do anything about itbecause the Sumer threw all his offensive forces against my knight/Musket stack. We got absolutely no elites despite a good kill ratio for us

So- for the next player: cavs in position on a hill next to Kia- will be a hard one, perehaps it is better fot them to go back into our town (bought bararcks there) and upgrade them to cavs next turn

other stack goes westwards-didn´t have too much troubles to get there- his offense is (hopefully) falling apart now

Vote: should we trade metallurgy with the English for Astronomy and perehaps bankingnot to waste too much of our research (and certainly not our prebuilds)?- even if the sumes don´t have then tech for peace, we could still get some of their cities which would not be too bad since the other AIs will rip the Sumers apart anyway

We need to get the Salpeter near Kia - our Knights do really hard against the Muskets- perehaps we should pillage only now and decimating his offensive forces until some cavs are at the front (will be 5-10 turns of further war preparation now)

Had to hire clowns/taxmen for the last turns- perehaps it is better to move the lux slider, WW is there, but not too serious now

We should also make money now and go perehaps go to min research and Upgrade all our shiny knights (Mr. Blonde dreams of a hive of cavs enslaving the whole continent since the beginning of our game anyway)- science and cash is running, some banks would be nice though

So good luck, Cubic

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Can you give more detailed information on military strenght compared with our foe and allies? If someone except sumer has banking we should trade it, at least when we get MilTrad and then research economics. A posted screenie would be nice to discuss the war strategy before cubic starts his turns. Important is to get as many cities as possible from Sumer, we dont want our "allies" to make too much profit. If Sumer is down to a few cities, and we have some excess military, we should not pay maintainance for it to have a nice day off... When we strike Byzanz as soon as possible, they have no chance of rebuilding their losses. If I understand you, Byzanz has salpeter now. Maybe we can cut down ways to Byz. mainland in neutral terretory...
Please post a screenie for discussion!

 

[batteryacid]

Here is what was requested


First: Sumer, Byz and England have Atronomy and Banking, but with military traditoin next turn we would have a good Tech to trade for these two and make gpts as surplus (I would guess 20 or more should be possible)

We are mil. average comapred to sumer and byz, and strong compared to England

My vote: trade Mil. Trad. for banking, astronomy and gpts to slow down the research of england and byz.

Upgrade the one knight stack near the city, move the other stack to mountain near Ur which has Sun Tzu and Copernikus- we don´t want these wonders fall into the Byz. Hands since they will be the next targets I gueass, hold the position there until our cavs arrive, the city north of Kia is not our target now I think, we can get this one easily AFTER we have Ur

Move some more Muskets also into position- we don´t need them in another place then the front - the Byz do good defending work for us

MM the research and the lux slider, produce worklers in Giza (is a 2 turn worker factory now) and watch the produciton of our cities

All important roads are now finished, some more won´t hurt us.

So: make cash, trade the techs next round, upgrade knights and perehaps also cash rush some banks in core cities without barracks - I would be for min research for some turns now until we are in a very good position at the front.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

How did Eng and Byz come to trade banking and metallurgy?? For the future: CHECK EVERY TURN, we could have banking and astronomy without giving away MilTrad! England has captured two cities. Sumer has no worth for us except their cities they are to be finished off by us, imho, after that byzanz is to be attacked together with england. Cav has to work before rifles come in. For Cubic (up) see if you can pillage ways from by Byz recently captured city to Byz mainland to prevent them from getting too much muskets. Trade luxes and gpt for banking, or if neccessary, MilTrad with england Shall we trade with Byz? A gpt deal will prevent war with them for the next 20 turns. If trading luxes with Eng, we should have a secure connection (Harbour or direct way from ex-Sumerian cities) when going to war with Byzanz. If the war with Sumer still lasts longer than 20 turns, trade with Byzanz for gpt.

 

[batteryacid]

If we trade MilTr, then to England and Byzanz, otherwise they will trade it anyhow. We get GPT to prevent a too early War with Byz and criplle the research of them. We want England stong because we need them if we go to war with Byzanz. We should trade the luxes to get extra money out of them. I checked nearly every turn- they got metallurgy and traded it with banking and astronomy in an interturn- I don´t know how I could have prevented it- didn´t want to give Metallurgy too early because I wanted us to be the first to get MT, now we have the tech and we get the money we want out of it. Only trouble will be when Byz and Sum come into the next age - Nationalism and steam power will be away too soon, so we have to slow down their research , and what better than some big fat gpt trades- we get our core more productive, have the Mil. we want , and when we are lucky in the war we will be the most powerful civ anyhow- let Sum and Byz destroy their military strenght now, they won´t dare to get aggressive when we are mil. strong agains them (which should soon be the case). With Smith and some banks (another reason to trade techs now for GPT) we make money like hell and cripple the AIs even further. So I when we have the sumers we should grab 4-5 Byz cities before they get too much cavs (have they horses, by the way?) and nationalism (gpt should prevent them to make too much upgrading too), make peace for whatever we want, when we are lucky we have then strong englishmen to distract the sumers a bit- we are the topdog in this game anyhow, so we only hav to make some profit out of our good position

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Try to think before posting, you are messing up sumer and byzanz quite frequently. Edit your posts to prevent confusion and headaches within the audience.

 

[Cubic]

A pity we couldn't trade Metallurgy, we could have at least one of the two missing techs by now (the civ nearly finishing the research wouldn't trade it away for tech, I guess). OK, so it's MilTrad to give away, although I'm not comfortable with a civ on our doorstep that has Cavs. I'll trade it to both Byz and England and then pillage the road that leads to Saltpeter Town in neutral terrain ASAP. Max research for Economics!
Taking Ur might not be that much of a problem as keeping it. Sumeria sure has a lot more culture than our soon-to-be-mighty Egyptian empire. Do we have some excess low-tech troops in our lands which we can move to Ur to prevent a culture flip?
We agreed to build Smith's in Alexandria IIRC, I'll start the palace prebuild, if it's not already on its way.
Opinions, comments?

 

[batteryacid]

Try to think before posting, you are messing up sumer and byzanz quite frequently. Edit your posts to prevent confusion and headaches within the audience.

Where am I messing them up? I wrote that after the sumers we will be in war with byzanz before they get nationalism or a similar nasty tech and that we will want to have gpt trades with them and england and then somehow alliance withthe english against byzanz. Try to read properly before you post.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Sorry, but the sentence "when we are lucky we have then strong englishmen to distract the sumers a bit" does not make sense, since by then sumer is toast and we have war against BYZANZ by then.

BtW, do unis make sense or are we ahead in research output for economics?

 

[Cubic]

Got it, playing now!

 

[Cubic]

Preturn:
Sci to 40%, Lux to 20% -> MilTrad in 1 @ +58gpt
Avaris: Changed Knight to Aqueduct
Kuara: Changed Musket to Temple
Edfu: Musket to Courthouse

IT:
We research MilTrad

T1 - 710AD
Astronomy from Mongols for Chemistry and 7gpt
MilTrad to England for Banking, 79g and 51gpt
MilTrad to Byzanz for 122g and 24gpt
Sci to 70% -> Economics in 7 @ +6gpt
Upgrade 6 Knights in Kumara for 180g
Alex: Cavalry (no Barracks) -> Bank

IT:

T2 - 720AD
Our Cavalry scores its first victory by capturing Kua, netting us nine slaves
Kua -> Temple

IT:
Our alliances with Byzanz and England against Sumeria end, I decide not to continue them. We are strong enough and Byzanz might be our target soon...

T3 - 730AD
Worker actions, Unit movement,......

IT:
We lose a Musketman in the Stack against a MDI
Lish: Courthouse -> Granary

T4 - 740AD
Sumeria talks to us: They are up Physics and down Metallurgy and MilTrad. They would only give us 15gpt for peace - We shall see...
Otherwise the same as before

IT:
Knossos: Granary -> Marketplace

T5 - 750AD
Attack on Ur: Kill 3 Pikes and 2 Muskets, lose 1 Cav and 1 Knight. 1 wounded Pike left

IT:
Some counterattacks, no losses

T6 - 760AD
Sci to 50% -> Eco still in 2 @ +58gpt
WE CAPTURE UR!!!! 2 Slaves, 9 Resistors!
Sell Incense to England for 110g + 13gpt

IT:
Byzanz and Sumeria sign a peace treaty
Thermopylae: Library -> Bank

T7 - 770AD
Wines to England for 44g + 21gpt
Byzanz now has Physics! They would trade it for 2lux, all our gold and lots of gpt - No deal, sorry!
We capture Isin and get one slave!
Worker actions, upgrading....

IT:
We research Economy!
London completes Leonardo's Workshop!
Umma (Sumeria) completes JSB!

T8 - 780AD
Research Navigation, Sci to 80% -> 6 turns @ +11gpt
Start Smith's in Heliopolis, due in 12 turns!
Sparta: Cav -> Marketplace

IT:
Some fighting, no losses
Wine City: Marketplace -> Bank
Kua flips, we lose 1 Musket

T9 - 790AD
Thebes finishes Cav -> Bank
Athens finishes Cav -> Bank
Taxmen in Sparta and Buto to prevent rioting

IT:
Abydos: Courthouse -> Aqueduct

T10 - 800AD
Cav loses against Enkidu Warrior in Kua

Summary:
OK, the war is going well. We have Gilgamesh on the run, he's only throwing Longbows and MDIs at us, no problem. OTOH Sumeria has quit a bit of culture, so keeping the conquered cities might be tricky (still 9 resistors in Ur). Gilgamesh still won't give us Physics for peace, so we will need to take some more cities before he realizes what's the best for his people. I tried to keep the Brits out of Sumeria, so we can grab the cities when our Cavs are healed.
Otherwise: We will get Smith's in 10 turns, should be safe. England is buying two lux from us, so they'll be nice for the time being, but Byzanz might become adventurous. They still pay us some gpt - who knows?

Click >HERE< to continue...

 

[Cubic]

Note to the next player:
I forgot to MM the cities in the last turn. Please check them to make sure, war weariness isn't causing problems. During my turns it was farly quiet, but it will happen sooner or later.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Good play, Cubic
Do we have a monopoly on economics? Flipping can happen, some bad luck there. Shall I squeeze resistance as fast as possible and risk losing 5-6 troops due to flipping or shall I make minimum defense and go for next cities? (I prefer to keep the war short) I think if no Sumerian cities are directly bordering the captured cities, they should be relative save (am I right?)
Sumer should not have salpeter right now (the one in Kua is disconnected as far as I see) How much Cav do I have to play with? Does Eng have any new tech?

BtW, what do you think of a pool play today, Cubic?

 

[Cubic]

We are the only ones who know Economy, that's why I think Smith's is in the bag. England is down Economics and doesn't know Physics yet. IMO they must be broke since they're paying us 85gpt and are in a war.
Risk of culture flip is (among other things) related to distance to the two capitals, enemy tiles in the city radius and citizen mood. IMO it's pointless to try to quell the resistors as long as the Sumerian capital is so close. I agree with you, just place units around the captured cites and recapture them when they flip - this also reduces their size!
We have 10-15 Cavs right now IIRC, most of them healing around Ur. Reinforcements are coming in quickly, though.
@ Pool: Fine with me, but IMO RL issues are best handled via PM and not on a public board, ok?

 

[batteryacid]

Superb turns- the game is developing exactly how I hoped- with Sun Tzu, SB and Smith there is not much that could stop us- we should perehaps also look for our defense now to prevent the Sumers do something stupid- Termophylae is very exposed as are some other cities- but after we have the sumers we can take the 4-5 byz. cities in the middle with the remaining cavs easily-
have the byz. access to Salpeter by the way? We should take as much advantage of our cavs as possible , which will be the point when the sumers have Nationalism (well. without salpeter it will be a hard time for them - will we let the sum. one city or not? I vote for no, because of the flip risk (even when we have to take the swamp/jungle cities in the northeast)

good luck MrB

 

[Cubic]

Both the English and the Byzantines have Cavs (although Byzanz' putative only saltpeter source is within our reach), Sumeria should be stripped of its strategic ressources (except iron) by now. I don't think the Sumerians can threaten Thermophylae, they have no fast units and would need to cross Byzant territory. Our cities in the NE are not defended very well, but the Sumerian cities there are small and propably corrupt for now (I've seen some longbows though). This might change when we conquer their mainland, so we should plan ahead for that. I'd also favor capturing all the Sumerian cities in the NE to eliminate flips and to bring us closer to world domination.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Preturn: Weak against Byz, strong against Sum, average against Eng
Tech Eng:up Eco Byz:up Eco, down Phy

Turn1: Ger declares and takes Ur with 6 horses, retake Ur without losses some rioting... Eng makes peace and has Phy
Turn2: Take kua and sumer
Turn3: Navigation is in, trade it and 2 lux for Phys with Byz (Eng has Navigation from Sumer already), still monopoly on Eco, Mag in 8 at 70% WE GET A LEADER NEAR SUMER and one near Pithom
Turn4: Pithom is attacked, we lose 3 units, he loses 4
Turn5: Zabalam falls, Nagasu also
Turn6: Bad-Tibira falls Trade Eco for ToG and 90 g with Eng, Byz and Sum have ToG already
Turn7: Kisurra falls
Turn8: Umma falls, make peace with Ger, he had two big stacks (although low-tech) near Ur, I don´t want to risk something
Turn9: Tutub falls
Turn 10: Ashak falls, the peninsula is ours; steam in 13, smith in 2. For the next player: Sumer has island city, which would take long to get. They are down to total 4 cities. They would give us 3 remaining cities + treasury.

I suggest to make peace, then we can lower lux rate, make money and build banks/universities in core and move troops to byz border. No flipps occurred in my turns, their capital is far away, we should risk it, imo.

The Byzantines have Nationalism, we are even with Eng, Sumer has no Magnetism. We are average to Eng and weak against Byz. Build temples in conquered cities, fill leak to peninsula and N with cities. Only a few buildings were finished, started reasonable ones. We have 34% pop, eng 17%, Byz less. If we take down Byz we have won. Btw, do you notice the greek city middle in byz territory? It didn´t flip either… No wars are there, noone has democracy, Mongols are very backwards, Por and Ger also. Some Gpt deals will run out. Note: cities need MM, build order and Clowns- Taxmen in conquered cities need check after peace, you can start MilAc and Heroic Epic
We have now 2 Cav armies. We should get nationalism or RP andsome rails before we hammer Byz, I have the feeling that some Cavs wait for us... they should have NEVER gotten that salpeter city

Situation

The SAVE

 

[Cubic]

Good job Mr. B! Cav it is, eh?
Any estimates if we can get a MA with England against Byzanz? Although I believe we alone would win a war of attrition, the Brits surely would be a big help. Especially as it will be an all Cav war, so mass is quality, no?

Since we're tied up with Byzanz for another 17 turns we should make good use of this time. Perhaps now is the time to trigger our GA? Until we get Hoover (or conquer another industrious wonder) the game might well be over! I'd temporary disconnect Edfu and build or UU there, since it has horses and is only connected by two roads.

Otherwise I'd also vote for peace with the Sumerians. They will soon get their free tech and then we have still some cities to take and "convince" them to share it with us .