MrB1_Emeror Training C3C

[Cubic]

OK, got it, played it and here're my turns:

Preturn
MM: Republic in 8 @ +1
Memphis -> FP (due in 22)
Wine City -> Courthouse
Pi -> Granary
Giza -> Granary
Heliopolis -> Sword
Sparta -> Spear (move Spear to Athens for MP duties)
Thermophyle -> Temple
Alex -> Spear
Diplo Check: Greeks will give 3 techs for peace - You can do better, guys!
Byzantines are up MM, Poly, Curr, Construction and Monarchy
Sumerians also have Republic

T1, 270BC
Abydos finishes Spear -> Granary
Move 3 Swords from Athens towards Knossos
Greek Archer moves on hill near Corinth

T2, 250BC
Elephantine finishes Sword -> Temple
Alex finishes Spear (to Memphis as MP) -> Granary
Found Avaris on hill S of the two oasis' -> Temple
Our elite Sword beats the Archer near Corinth but only has 3 hp left
(A bad omen, you will see!)

T3, 230BC
Contact: Our curragh spots an english warrior on the NW tip of our continent. He's having a little row with some barbs and ends up as an elite. The English are up the usual techs (MM, Poly, Curr, Constr, Mon), they have no iron, but excess ivory. No trades possible so far.
A hoplite + settler move in range of our Swords N of Athens. I lose one Sword in killing the hoplite, the 2nd beat it flawlessly, yielding 2 slaves.

T4, 210BC
Set Sci to 70%: Rep in 3 @ -2
Greek hoplite + settler move E across the desert between Avaris and Abydos

T5, 190BC
El-Amarna finishes Spear (moved to Thebes) -> Library
Spices are connected

Found Lisht in the desert near Abydos -> Temple
Lux to 10%, Rep in 2 @ breaking even

T6, 170BC
Contact: Our curragh spots a mongolian scout in the NW of our continent. The Mongols are on the same tech level as everybody else (as far as we are concerned), they've no iron but excess horses!
Attack on Pharsalos:
Elite Sword loses straight against reg hoplite and promotes it
vet Sw : vet hopl = loss, but redlined -> another reg hoplite appears
vet Sw : reg hopl = loss, hopl -1
vet Sw : reg hopl = straight loss + promotion
vet Sw : vet hopl = straight loss + promotion

No RNG luck today!

IT:
Our vet Sword S of Pharsalos loses straight against an attacking archer

T7, 150BC
It was the year of Anarchy and Chaos. Entertainers were hired to distract the people and prevent damage.

T8, 130BC
We research Republic! I revolt of course: 1 turn of anarchy!
I set sci to 0, we'll get all the techs from the Greeks (if RNG wants

)
Elephantine -> Sword
Kill two archers near Pharsalos, 2 Swords on 2hp

T9, 110BC
Greeks found Heraklia N of Lisht!
Sparta finishes Spear -> Barracks
Kill another Archer near Pharsalos
Lux -> 10% to prevent riots in Memphis
Upgrade a warrior in Eleohantine for 60g

IT:
Our Sword survives the treacherous attack of an archer and promotes to elite!

T10, 90BC
We connect Silks! -> MM, workers and troops movement.....

Summary:
Well, you can't beat bad RNG, hopefully the next player is more successfull!
Looks like the war might take another couple of turns, so more swords might be neccessary!
We now have four lux online and a fifth as soon as Athens expands (or build a colony with a slave?)
I'm too tired right now to come up with anything like strategies, city placement - CU tomorrow, guys!

Here's our current situation:

And here's the save

 

[batteryacid]

Hi Cubic
Some Questions: How good (or bad) is our economy running in Republic? (I guess rather bad because we don´t have marketplaces). Should we also care about this Greek city in the north, or should we make peace first to get the techs we really need after taking the two cities in the northwest?

Why have you started granaries in some of the cities? How much more swords will we need? How much settlers? 1 or to to catch the last free tiles in the north of termopylae should do it for now?

Have you seen anywhere horses? Have you checked the diplo screen if the bycantines or sumers have one?

As for your bad battles: well it can happen, don´t worry about it .

 

[Mr. Blonde]

As requested by a lurker HERE is the starting save

We already have four lux? Do we need spice city from the greeks? We surely can trade for Herakleia if we take Knossos and Pharolsos. Then teh should not be a problem. However, how is the tech situation compared to newly encountered civs? We can found 4 new cities around Knossos, do we have the resources at the moment? If we settle in N up to the jungle we should think to shift the palace perhaps to Alexandria (if W and N cities are improved and bigger), but maybe we should decide if we need to do this after we have built the FP. Anyhow Belisar is next, I will take it tomorrow if he does not take it until then. Why does Sumer not expand to E? I hope they dont have better land to settle elsewhere. However, good luck for the next player, we are really in a good situation at the moment

 

[Cubic]

@batteryacid:
I had to MM a bit after change to republic, 'cause we've no MP any more. But our economical situation is not that bad. We're making around 40gpt with zero science.
I'd vote for going after Pharsalos (of course), Heraklia (the new founded city -> good spot IMO) and eventually the city on the W coast. We don't need Spice City any more and it isn't situated on a must-have spot. When our borders expand, we've the Greeks in our view and under control.
The granaries are for a part prebuilds for marketplaces, but they can't hurt either (we still need a lot of workers if we want to settle towards the N tip of our continent and that's what I would favour strongly).
How many Swords? Well, there're at least two hoplites (one elite, one vet) in Pharsalos and at least one in Heraklia. Count in a couple of archers (Alexander seems to focus on them for now) and bad RNG and you will need quite a numer of swords to take both cities.
I forgot to check on Sumeria and Byzanz, but the Mongols have excess horses and no iron! I've seen no horses on our continent so far.

@MrBlonde
As stated in my post, both the English and the Mongols are ahead at least MM, Poly, Curr, Constr and Monarchy. And they also have exploring forces on our continent, so we can expect cites on the N coast soon. The NE tip and the small isle look quite fertile, we should go for that instead squeezing more cities in the contested zone near the Greeks, Sumerians and Byzantines.

 

[batteryacid]

I would say then for the next: take pharsalos, perehaps we can get Herakleia for peace and this is enough. We need currency badly, in worst case we trade the rest of the lacking techs for luxes or iron with the greeks. We should also trade the maps with all civs to get perehaps a bit gpt and a better view of where resources are and who will be the best allie against the sumers

 

[Cubic]

I vote against peace until it yields us the four techs and Herakleia, this place is just too good to leave it to the Greek. I mean, 2 BG and tobacco at once and one more BG in the outer ring! In 20 turns - when we can attack it again - it will propably be size 6 or more and much better defended than just by one hoplite!
But in general you're right. We need market places, so let's hope Alexander's fighting spirit is broken after the fall of Pharsalos.

 

[batteryacid]

I talked with belisar, he can´t play the next two days- so Mr. Blonde, you´re up, Belisar will play 20 turns this weekend (if everybody is happy with it).
The plan for the next turns: Take Herekleia (perehaps it is best to get it in the peace negotiations, and Pharsalos) this should do it for the greeks- if we can´t get all techs it isn´t that bad -as long as we have currency- we can trade the lacking ones against luxes or gpt with the greeks or with some other civ except the sumers , and then build marketplaces and libraries everywhere- after this a big discussion about our next goals should follow- but we need to accumulate and refresh our forces, get some shining Knights (or in worst case MI) before we seriously want to bully the Sumers

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Preturn:9 Swords, strong against everyone
Sumer has Iron, no Horses, Byzanz has both, Mongols no Iron but Horses, England has no iron and no horses
+39 gpt, 40 gpt for units, 80% tax, 20%lux
Turn1: England builds Zeus, Mongols Great Wall; kill 2 hoplites in Pharolsos, lose 1 sword, 1 archer left Byzanz builds city near us

Turn2: Giza granary-temple Kill new hoplite in Ph

Turn3: Set lux to 40% to prevent WW rioting, Sword movement Byzantines fill up land in W, easy to take cities in future

Turn4: Take Ph without losses We get 4 techs, no city

Turn5: Take Knossos We get 3 techs and the city we want, trade Republic for MM and 40 g with Mongols, for 20g and 5 gpt with Greece. We are behind Feudalism and Monotheism; Engineering in 15 t with 10% lux and -7gpt start marketplaces (or libraries) in core
Turn6: Sumer builds Knights templar; Worker movement

Turn7: FP finished, -12gpt, 8 turns at 70%, 0% lux Byz got Engineering

Turn8: Worker movement

Turn9: Sumer builds Sun Tzu, they traded for Eng, noone else has it; nothing else

Turn10: found city in W, Athens expands, 5th lux online tech: We are behind Monarchy with everyone, Feud with everyone except Mongols, Monotheism with everyone except Mongols and Engineering with Sumer and Byzantines, Chivalry is also out there, probably Sumer and Byz. Byz can build knights, Sumer has no horses, Mong no Iron, Eng no Iron.

Suggested strategy: with Engineering (4 turns -24 gpt) we can get Feud from greece or Eng, Mon from the other, start Invention go straight to gunpowder, Monarchy from Mong should be possible Cities: build settlers in East coast (set up at the moment, discussable) and settle N (England has 1 city there, HORSES ARE TEHER), W belongs to Byzanz - take these cities in later Blitzkrieg. Improve defense in W as mid term goal, with Sumer as ally we can get some techs (or other way round); Libraries in core should be built during next 20 tuns. Discussable: Palace to Alexandria? War Sumer-Byzanz is needed to slow tech race and to grab some cities from one of them.

Good luck for the next player! The SAVE

 

[batteryacid]

Hi Mr. Blonde. Good turns - we should rock with all these marketplaces online- question: do we have a forbidden palace, or did you change? Can we trade world maps? Or is the danger of Sumer cities in our north too big then? Did you check the Victory screen- how far are we behind the Sumers and the other civs? I think we should now try to get ahead in the tech race before we start another war- or we should make a

 

[batteryacid]

I´m away for a week now- can play on satursay or sunday next weekend. Good luck for the next- belisar is up - when we don´t hear of him ´til tuesday it´s Cubics turn, I thinlk- good luck

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Belisar will play next, hopefully this week, 20 turns. Priority: build up marketplaces and libraries to catch up in tech race (3 scientific civs as neighbours...) Greeks and Mongols will be behind in tech race soon as well as England. Get Byz as ally against Sumer they lead culture and the tech race of both powerhorses will be slowed. I see no way to get horses in N, we need embassies urgently to make profit with our luxuries. Once the land is worked and we hoplefully lead tech in late MA the game is won.
Good luck, Belisar

 

[batteryacid]

I talked to Belisar- he will try to play tomorrow evening- so Cubic is to decide if he wants to wait til tomorrow or play today evening

Here is what happened during my turns:

Traded a bit around- we pay 50 gpt to the Byzantines for Theology which I traded with the Mongols for Feudalism- we are rather unlucky, because Invention and Education are already around- so I decide to go for minimum research, make money and accelerate the building of our infrastructure and build embassies, perehaps we should steal tech from the Sumers when we have the money (costs 1000 gold at the moment)

Good luck- THE SUMERS HAVE NO LUX!
I FOUND DYES AND HORSES IN THE JUNGLE - OUR SETTLERS ARE ALREADY IN POSITION- we can grab them before the sumer settlers which are also on their way to the jungle

Our Economy is running rather good, our income explodes with marketplaces and core cities growing, in 50% corrupt cities build Courthouses.

CONTACT WITH THE GERMANS AND THE PORTUGIES- they are way behind in tech and no match for us or the sumers

to the next player: CONNECT THE HORSES , FOUND THE TWO JUNGLE CITIES AND CONNECT THE DYES , BUILD A WAY FROM TERMOPHYLAE TO THE BYZANTINES FOR TRADING LUXES AGAINST GPT OR TECHS

BUILD (AND RUSH) TEMPLES AND LIBRARIES FOR CULTURE- WE WILL NEED IT TO CLOSE OUR BORDERS AND TO PREVENT FLIPPING IN OUR WAR AGAINST THE SUMERS- WAIT FOR HORSES BEFORE BUILD UP OFFENSIVE UNITS, BEGIN TO BUILD PIKES AND UPGRADE SPEARS AND TRANSFER THEM TO THE BORDERS

so, good luck Cubic or Belisar

 

[Cubic]

I had a quick look at the save and here's a dotmap for city placement.

This way we secure the dyes and prevent the sumerians from occupying the northern coast. Purple dots are further proposed locatons. Comments?

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Hi, Cubic

The dot on the dye is OK, iron city not possibe-swamp. Blue dot okay, maybe SW for closer spacing. One city NE of Bananas (it is on river I think). Purple dots maybe if they stay unoccuppied, prevent Sumer from spreading there. more important is to claim desert bordering Sumer for a short final border to the N.

Good luck for tech race, hopefully byzanz builds road to capital soon.

 

[Cubic]

Turnlog:

Preturn
No lux trades possible, Byzanz would sell us Invention for all our gold and 57gpt - No deal!

T1, 310AD
Heliopolis finishes Aqueduct -> Pike
Herakleia finishes Temple -> Courthouse

T2, 320AD
Memphis finishes Library -> Pike
Corinth finishes Library -> Marketplace
Two Sumerian Settler-Combos move NE
Found Busiris on the red dot -> Warrior

T3, 330AD
Thebes: Pike -> Pike (send Pikes to border cities near Sumeria)

T4, 340AD
Lish: Temple -> Courthouse
Heliopolis: Pile -> Pike
Edfu: Warrior -> Temple

T5, 350AD
Athens: Courthouse -> Marketplace
Memphis: Pike -> Pike

T6, 360AD
Thebes: Pike -> Pike

T7, 370AD
Finally the Byzantines (and the Sumerians btw) have connected our border to their capital. I buy Invention for Incense, 200g, 28gpt and sell it to the English for Chivalry, 32g and 6gpt. I then sell Chivalry to Greece for 70g and 2gpt.
Both the Byzantines and the Sumerians have Gunpowder!

T8, 380AD
Sparta: Library -> Marketplace
Pharsalos: Temple -> Marketplace
Memphis: Pike -> Pike
Found Kachun on blue dot -> Warrior

T9, 390AD
Pi: Marketplace -> Aqueduct
Pithom: Warrior -> Temple

T10, 400AD


Summary
Pretty uneventful turns IMO. But we now face a Settler invasion (see screenie below), we might not be able to grab another city spot beside the grey dot (after we clear it, of course). I've started knights in some cities, if we decide to go to war against Sumeria we'll need them even if we play defensivly.
Byzanz would sell us Gunpowder for Wines, 612g, 20gpt; England would take Wines, Incense, 612g, 12gpt (Perhaps one can negotiate a better deal though!)
IMO we should strike Sumeria ASAP. Get Gunpowder, build Muskets for border cities (given we have Saltpeter) and a couple of knights and "invite" the Byzantines to join us. Both are staring to spread like flea, hopefully a war will slow them down a bit.

The Save

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Concerning Gunpowder: does England have it, too? First you only mentioned Sumer and Byzanz... I think we should buy it and also sell it to other parties... we need to get rid of high gpt deals in order to start own research. imho we should do well with libraries online. We need gunpowder now to get salpeter quickly and start up border defense. with 3-4 muskets in these towns the computer will go for more weakly defended towns, presumably byzantine towns (long border)

 

[Cubic]

Yes England has Gunpowder, they would sell it to us for Wines, Incense, 612g (all our gold) and 12gpt (although this is still negotiable).
This would still leave one wine to give to Byzanz for an MA against Sumeria. IIRC a 50gpt deal with Byzanz runs out in a few turns, so an additional 12gpt won't hurt us.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

For the next player (Belisar hopefully): Gunpowder from England, we should not make Byzanz too strong, it is better to divert our money. If 2 dyes are hooked up and the huge gpt deal with Byzanz runs out, we have some things to negotiate. The question is research: direct to Mil Trad if we have gunpowder? What does the team think?

 

[Cubic]

I'd second the direct way to Mil Trad. Nothing beats a good old cavalry push (well...infantry perhaps....and more cavalry.....) and perhaps the Sumerians neglect this path, so we can extort some techs when we make peace! Let's hope there's not too much Saltpeter around!

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Preturn: as discussed trade for Gunpowder with England: costs us 500 12 gpt and 2 luxes start minimum research at chemistry
We have salpeter near Avaris

Turn1---

Turn2 Alexandria lib-tre wine city courthouse-lib worker movement...

Turn3 worker movement, cannot prevent city building by Sumer

Turn4 Giza Aqu-market gpt deal with Byz runs out chem in 9 with -3 gpt (disbanded 4 reg Warriors, no money for upgrading them)

Turn5 First knights are built and sent to border Byz workers start to improve our land, polite...

Turn6 worker movements...

Turn7: dyes and salpeter now online, Sumer has chemistry...

Turn8 start to send knight to N, we need some defense there...

Turn9: worker movements...

Turn10: Knights arrive

In 2 turns we have dyes and chemistry to trade for an alliance, all cities except Kahun are connected. We should get education and the alliance against Sumer. England and Sumer dont have chemistry yet, now its time to gang on Sumer. Stay at defense first, donate cities to Eng or Byz before losing them. Weak against Sumer and average to Byz. No money for upgrading, though. Byzanz has no Salpeter...hopefully the knights can make a stand against the crusaders... Btw, Belisar, we will watch you play 30 turns on Saturday while drinking Caipirinhas. War has to be started in the next turns. Byz and Eng dont have Chemistry yet...they are probably not researching that fast and we will lead after we have beaten down Sumer before they start eating up their neighbours. Try to get Eng also into alliance, that will cripple all 3 civs close to us. Good luck for the next player!!

The SAVE