There is a (small) river at Dheli (I found when I checked the rice tile), so chain-irrigation will be possible.
MrB4...Beyond the PC Problems
- Thread starter Mr. Blonde
- Start date
There is a (small) river at Dheli (I found when I checked the rice tile), so chain-irrigation will be possible.
The city center tile provides 2 food. The cow is just +1.
We can either work 4 tiles (2 fish, 2 clam and cc = +16)
or we can add 2 more pop that work the cow and 1 grassland hill for production.
Both variants give 8 specialists (at size 12 or 14).
Mr. Blonde
Dr. techn.
So, now I´m back in town. The reunion lasted until 4 am today, and I don´t feel sober enough to play this evening, so I´ll play tomorrow. To recapitulate: my task is to give the next player a force to overwhelm Gandhi. I ihink only 2 cities need to take part in this buildup. Courthouses + foundation of the next city so we stay at over 50% sciencerate.
Techs: what do we aim for next? Imo currency is most important; we don´t need theocracy yet. After that we shoud aim for philosophy for pacifism and get research running. To have caravels sooner than later is also important to see where we stand and to get Magellan´s voyage. Everything is up for discussion, of course.
Batteryacid can play during the week, so you would be up for the weekend, Belisar. See that you don´t put on weight from all those Schwäbische Spätzle.
Cheers and nice week for everyone.
Techs: what do we aim for next? Imo currency is most important; we don´t need theocracy yet. After that we shoud aim for philosophy for pacifism and get research running. To have caravels sooner than later is also important to see where we stand and to get Magellan´s voyage. Everything is up for discussion, of course.
Batteryacid can play during the week, so you would be up for the weekend, Belisar. See that you don´t put on weight from all those Schwäbische Spätzle.
Cheers and nice week for everyone.
Yes, Currency next, the additional income and the markets are really important.
We should also make our way to optics to get contact, as you stated (and perhaps convert a few guys...) and we need Civil Service.
I have also spotted a nice site for a future production city NE of Bursa, making the most of the otherwise somewhat poor lands in the north, see the picture.
Blue circles are mines/quarry, green are farms. A size 10 city could have already a base production of 20!
The city could be settled when we have captured Gandhi, as we will get to CS fast.
I guess our reunion was a nice event
Here in Stu, the weekend was not amazing, but lots of stuff tomorrow...
We should also make our way to optics to get contact, as you stated (and perhaps convert a few guys...) and we need Civil Service.
I have also spotted a nice site for a future production city NE of Bursa, making the most of the otherwise somewhat poor lands in the north, see the picture.
Blue circles are mines/quarry, green are farms. A size 10 city could have already a base production of 20!
The city could be settled when we have captured Gandhi, as we will get to CS fast.
I guess our reunion was a nice event
Here in Stu, the weekend was not amazing, but lots of stuff tomorrow...
Mr. Blonde
Dr. techn.
As promised I play now
Turn 191: Checking the cities if there is something to be managed Hmm Edrine is set to a granary. This should make sense if we switch to slavery somewhen The warrior is placed differently from the dotmap concerning our next city, but I guess this was done rightfully because the new spot includes more coasttiles and has the same amount of resources.
Turn 192: Ghandi would trade alphabet for monarchy. I say yes as we would need it anyhow for spies and to set cities for science. I build another sword in our cap
193: Ankara goes court->monastery
Some Barb action I discover the borders of a Barb town and decide to examine
198: Bursa (GP farm) goes court -> spy I want a couple of them to wreak havoc on Ghandi. Our Courts should outproduce him in espionage points
199: Istanbul and Konya build monasteries now (still time to produce temples before they grow to the limit), Edrine builds another sword. I am beginning to think that maybe Cats and swords are enough to conquer India. The Barb city which was in a crap location is history now and brings some gold
202: Ankara builds the monastery and starts a temple (necessary). Missionaries come next. I start currency (10 turns), we can decide if HBR is necessary at the moment. +2 at 60%, we have to wait for currency to found the next city.
206: Istanbul builds a monastery, starts a missionary. Edrine builds a cat after the sword.
208: Ankara goes temple -> missionary ; Konya monastery -> temple.
210: Currency is here! Still only +1 at 60%. I switch to HBR at the moment and stop my turn. Imo discussion is necessary. One missionary is sent to our GP farm (monastery + temple); the next one should convert Edrine. The 2 Cats are finished in a couple of turns. 2 spies are sent to Gandhi I say we incite a revolt in his cap and sabotage the iron when we invade (or now
). We have a total of 7 swords and 2 axes available, I think with 2 cats and maybe some swords more we can invade (the spies arrive soon and should show his capacity). The road is finished after one more tile. Converting him is imo a waste at the moment as we raze 1 city of his 2, the other can be converted after we conquer it and I doubt he transfers it to his island town in time. And: our first GS is here next turn. Time to build academies in our commerce cities and the GP farm.
So: HBR gives us stables and Phants. Metal casting -> forges (in 2 cities or so) I say no priority; Philo is an interesting tech as Taoism would be available as well as pacifism (13 turns or so). He researches Literature. Also available: compass, CS (not necessary now) and Feudalism (hmm Vassalage?!?).
Gandhi is up: Polytheism, Monotheism (he switched to OR without a religion
), Aesthetics and Archery. We should maybe trade for poly and aesthetics to grab mono and lit.
Anyway, here is the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/49010/MrB4_210.CivBeyondSwordSave
Turn 191: Checking the cities if there is something to be managed Hmm Edrine is set to a granary. This should make sense if we switch to slavery somewhen The warrior is placed differently from the dotmap concerning our next city, but I guess this was done rightfully because the new spot includes more coasttiles and has the same amount of resources.
Turn 192: Ghandi would trade alphabet for monarchy. I say yes as we would need it anyhow for spies and to set cities for science. I build another sword in our cap
193: Ankara goes court->monastery
Some Barb action I discover the borders of a Barb town and decide to examine
198: Bursa (GP farm) goes court -> spy I want a couple of them to wreak havoc on Ghandi. Our Courts should outproduce him in espionage points
199: Istanbul and Konya build monasteries now (still time to produce temples before they grow to the limit), Edrine builds another sword. I am beginning to think that maybe Cats and swords are enough to conquer India. The Barb city which was in a crap location is history now and brings some gold
202: Ankara builds the monastery and starts a temple (necessary). Missionaries come next. I start currency (10 turns), we can decide if HBR is necessary at the moment. +2 at 60%, we have to wait for currency to found the next city.
206: Istanbul builds a monastery, starts a missionary. Edrine builds a cat after the sword.
208: Ankara goes temple -> missionary ; Konya monastery -> temple.
210: Currency is here! Still only +1 at 60%. I switch to HBR at the moment and stop my turn. Imo discussion is necessary. One missionary is sent to our GP farm (monastery + temple); the next one should convert Edrine. The 2 Cats are finished in a couple of turns. 2 spies are sent to Gandhi I say we incite a revolt in his cap and sabotage the iron when we invade (or now
). We have a total of 7 swords and 2 axes available, I think with 2 cats and maybe some swords more we can invade (the spies arrive soon and should show his capacity). The road is finished after one more tile. Converting him is imo a waste at the moment as we raze 1 city of his 2, the other can be converted after we conquer it and I doubt he transfers it to his island town in time. And: our first GS is here next turn. Time to build academies in our commerce cities and the GP farm.So: HBR gives us stables and Phants. Metal casting -> forges (in 2 cities or so) I say no priority; Philo is an interesting tech as Taoism would be available as well as pacifism (13 turns or so). He researches Literature. Also available: compass, CS (not necessary now) and Feudalism (hmm Vassalage?!?).
Gandhi is up: Polytheism, Monotheism (he switched to OR without a religion
), Aesthetics and Archery. We should maybe trade for poly and aesthetics to grab mono and lit.Anyway, here is the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/49010/MrB4_210.CivBeyondSwordSave
I have a couple of comments after looking at the save.
.) First, the capital needs one of Edrine's workers, otherwise it will work unimproved tiles soon. It also needs a lighthouse to improve the seafood.
.) Edrine stagnates while high food tiles are possible and the cat would still be built in 3, this should be changed immediately.
(I built the granary because the city grows really slow)
.) Bursa (nearly) stagnates too and is building science. I can only guess that this was meant to be a placeholder and
a temple was intended next turn when the religion will spread, otherwise I would have to use
Seriously, as I stated some posts ago our main concern is happiness. Therefore, specialized low-shield cities like Bursa (and Commerce cities
like Konya) should only build happy-buildings and commerce enhancing ones (prefferable science-buildings)
I see the point that a temple is not available until next turn but in that case shields should have been invested towards colosseum
or market. Hammers invested in buildings decay only after a long time (IIRC 50 turns, while the ones for units decay rather quickly)
so it is no problem to half-finish a col. or a market, then switch to temple and finish the former afterwards (in case of col. it is actually
pointless as it costs the same amount of hammers than the temple)
This is a strategy one should keep in mind when developing a city.
Additional, growth in cities should be timed with the future happy limits, not with the actual ones.
Next thing, Bursa has already enough farms to support at least 4 scientists, so a switch to caste system is necessary.
Whenever we hit happy limits in our specialized cities (Bursa and New Dehli), we should max the amount of specialists.
Good work on getting the army started, we should conquer Ghandi soon.
When we get this second specialized city to work with a lot of merchants, our maintenance problem will be gone and science should
be up 80,90%. (Ultimate goal would be 100% scienece and one (or 2) wealth cities with tons of merchants.
Tech: Philo would obviously be nice as more religions would open up the free-religion option if we have to use it for diplo at some point.
I made an updated dot-map.
The beaver colony in the north-east is important, the markets will double their value (and those of ivory)
In the south, the warrior is just clearing fog to prevent barbs from showing up, I would go with the original site
and settle another commerce city later on the island (both are close to the capital which reduces maintenance).
.) First, the capital needs one of Edrine's workers, otherwise it will work unimproved tiles soon. It also needs a lighthouse to improve the seafood.
.) Edrine stagnates while high food tiles are possible and the cat would still be built in 3, this should be changed immediately.
(I built the granary because the city grows really slow)
.) Bursa (nearly) stagnates too and is building science. I can only guess that this was meant to be a placeholder and
a temple was intended next turn when the religion will spread, otherwise I would have to use
Seriously, as I stated some posts ago our main concern is happiness. Therefore, specialized low-shield cities like Bursa (and Commerce citieslike Konya) should only build happy-buildings and commerce enhancing ones (prefferable science-buildings)
I see the point that a temple is not available until next turn but in that case shields should have been invested towards colosseum
or market. Hammers invested in buildings decay only after a long time (IIRC 50 turns, while the ones for units decay rather quickly)
so it is no problem to half-finish a col. or a market, then switch to temple and finish the former afterwards (in case of col. it is actually
pointless as it costs the same amount of hammers than the temple)
This is a strategy one should keep in mind when developing a city.
Additional, growth in cities should be timed with the future happy limits, not with the actual ones.
Next thing, Bursa has already enough farms to support at least 4 scientists, so a switch to caste system is necessary.
Whenever we hit happy limits in our specialized cities (Bursa and New Dehli), we should max the amount of specialists.
Good work on getting the army started, we should conquer Ghandi soon.
When we get this second specialized city to work with a lot of merchants, our maintenance problem will be gone and science should
be up 80,90%. (Ultimate goal would be 100% scienece and one (or 2) wealth cities with tons of merchants.
Tech: Philo would obviously be nice as more religions would open up the free-religion option if we have to use it for diplo at some point.
I made an updated dot-map.
The beaver colony in the north-east is important, the markets will double their value (and those of ivory)
In the south, the warrior is just clearing fog to prevent barbs from showing up, I would go with the original site
and settle another commerce city later on the island (both are close to the capital which reduces maintenance).
Spoiler :
Mr. Blonde
Dr. techn.
Well...my comments: I didn´t really want to invest in colosseums at the moment because monasteries, temples and war preparations took the buildtime. Our specialist city could by building science (after 2 spies) shorten the time to get Currency by 1 turn. You should not forget some of the happiness is caused by MP units which will be removed when we go to war. I am not sure if a market is a good investment there, but I guess our 2 commerce cities and our cap (occupied with a cat at the moment) should start them up after they finish temples/missionaries. Sadly not one of our cities converted by itself in my turns 
.
You really want to build the island city in the south? Don´t forget that island cities cost us more maintainance now and we can start colonies only with 2 cities in proximity on a different landmass which is not possible in this case. The location where the warrior is placed could imo be used and we build only 1 city there.
Imo we really need to get rid of the Indian cities on our landmass, switch to caste system (slavery imo not needed) and run as many specialists as possible. With CS we can generate our great prophet as next person. Where to build the first academy? I guess Konya is first.
So for Batt: We really need some $$ at the moment. Revolt to CS after we get the scientist, switch Bursa to run as many prophets as possible (4 or so) and start a temple then a monastery there. Gather the swords (look at the cities if they are needed as MP) inside our borders together with the cats. Edrine builds either a col or continues swords (my favourite). Konya/Ankara build lighthouses and markets, our cap too. When we have the army gathered, conduct spy missions to revolt Delhi and Bombay; the iron can be pillaged with a chariot.
Foundation of city no. 6 is up for discussion. Tech: Philo/Compass then civil service? We don´t need to tech for landunits at our current situation, imo. Contact is more important after we finish Gandhi. I guess we can trade for religious techs and aesthetics/lit easily.
. You really want to build the island city in the south? Don´t forget that island cities cost us more maintainance now and we can start colonies only with 2 cities in proximity on a different landmass which is not possible in this case. The location where the warrior is placed could imo be used and we build only 1 city there.
Imo we really need to get rid of the Indian cities on our landmass, switch to caste system (slavery imo not needed) and run as many specialists as possible. With CS we can generate our great prophet as next person. Where to build the first academy? I guess Konya is first.
So for Batt: We really need some $$ at the moment. Revolt to CS after we get the scientist, switch Bursa to run as many prophets as possible (4 or so) and start a temple then a monastery there. Gather the swords (look at the cities if they are needed as MP) inside our borders together with the cats. Edrine builds either a col or continues swords (my favourite). Konya/Ankara build lighthouses and markets, our cap too. When we have the army gathered, conduct spy missions to revolt Delhi and Bombay; the iron can be pillaged with a chariot.
Foundation of city no. 6 is up for discussion. Tech: Philo/Compass then civil service? We don´t need to tech for landunits at our current situation, imo. Contact is more important after we finish Gandhi. I guess we can trade for religious techs and aesthetics/lit easily.
Edrine and Bursa had no religion, so first col and then temple (after the faith is spread) would have been my build choice.
Bursa is special, as stated it should build nothing except happy and science/commerce buildings.
I our situation, the market counts as happy building, short term for 1 (ivory), mid term for 2 (beavers) and long term hopefully for even more.
This was more of a long-term project and is up for discussion. Your are right, if we don't want to build it then we should move "LA" to the warrior spot as this would give more coast and what's more important more grassland.
Simply scroll for the highest science output, we need them at least in Ankara, Konya, Bursa and the capital.
Please, don't pillage Ghandi. Simply take the northern city.
Fully agree on this.
batteryacid
Prince
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- 449
Oky doky. I am reading now your comments.
Looking at the save I would say, that I begin war after the 2 Cats are built- should I try some spy mission ? Is any spy mission available at the moment or are they enabled by some techs?
Are market places better than temples at the moment? (+1 happy from ivory, a second one then when we have the furs). Lighthouses are also needed at least in Istanbul for the moment, Konya and Ankara still have some cottages to work with at the moment .
We will need a galley sooner or later, especially as Ghandi will not last very long and as we can load our spies in and can do some spying on our next neighbours.
Metal casting will not be needed as we have at the moment neither gold nor silver and we cannot afford to build a fish/silver/horse city in the tundra at the moment. Optics is definitely an option as caravels are way faster to spread oru spies and missionaries. A lot techs are available at the music/drama/aesth branch, but I think we should spare them until we really need them. What with paper and the University of Sankore? Do we have chances to build it? it would definitely be a really good WW for our current situation.
Should I revolt then after the great scientist is there or when the 2 cats are there ? What to do with the scientist? Academy or just settling him?
So, generally speaking: I will smash Ghandi and parallel build temples/markets/coll when needed and look for max growth of the cities (on future predicted happyness). When I revolt to caste system, what type of citizens should be set? scientists/merchants mixture?
Ad worker moves: Are any chops to do? Otherwise I think Edrine ,Istanbul and Ankara are nearly (excepts 1-2 tiles) totally improved until we can build lumbermills.
Looking at the save I would say, that I begin war after the 2 Cats are built- should I try some spy mission ? Is any spy mission available at the moment or are they enabled by some techs?
Are market places better than temples at the moment? (+1 happy from ivory, a second one then when we have the furs). Lighthouses are also needed at least in Istanbul for the moment, Konya and Ankara still have some cottages to work with at the moment .
We will need a galley sooner or later, especially as Ghandi will not last very long and as we can load our spies in and can do some spying on our next neighbours.
Metal casting will not be needed as we have at the moment neither gold nor silver and we cannot afford to build a fish/silver/horse city in the tundra at the moment. Optics is definitely an option as caravels are way faster to spread oru spies and missionaries. A lot techs are available at the music/drama/aesth branch, but I think we should spare them until we really need them. What with paper and the University of Sankore? Do we have chances to build it? it would definitely be a really good WW for our current situation.
Should I revolt then after the great scientist is there or when the 2 cats are there ? What to do with the scientist? Academy or just settling him?
So, generally speaking: I will smash Ghandi and parallel build temples/markets/coll when needed and look for max growth of the cities (on future predicted happyness). When I revolt to caste system, what type of citizens should be set? scientists/merchants mixture?
Ad worker moves: Are any chops to do? Otherwise I think Edrine ,Istanbul and Ankara are nearly (excepts 1-2 tiles) totally improved until we can build lumbermills.
The build order for low-production cities would be temple - col - market (col first if no religion yet) as markets are the most expensive.
A few additional units are also necessary for MP (remember every unit couts as "temple without culture").
A galley is necessary, but will likely not be able to make contact (cann't travel on ozean, no suicide galleys here )
Instead, if you look closer at Gandhi's land, he has at least 1 city on a different island, so we need to be able to shift units over there.
If we capture Gandhi fast, it is save to take his techs now as he won't be able to share them
For the GS: we want academies in the commerce centers, later we plan for an Oxford city and settle the rest there.
Don't mix specialists. (MrB already stated this, the next one shoudl be a prophet)
New Dehli will be our "merchant colony" (and Wall Street city)
A few additional units are also necessary for MP (remember every unit couts as "temple without culture").
A galley is necessary, but will likely not be able to make contact (cann't travel on ozean, no suicide galleys here
)Instead, if you look closer at Gandhi's land, he has at least 1 city on a different island, so we need to be able to shift units over there.
If we capture Gandhi fast, it is save to take his techs now as he won't be able to share them
For the GS: we want academies in the commerce centers, later we plan for an Oxford city and settle the rest there.
Don't mix specialists. (MrB already stated this, the next one shoudl be a prophet)
New Dehli will be our "merchant colony" (and Wall Street city)
Mr. Blonde
Dr. techn.
For a spy mission you have to place a spy on the city of question. The longer it is placed there, the cheaper the mission gets. We have enough points to cause the revolts we want. Of course, the longer the spy is placed in his lands, the higher the chance he is revealed if he has one or more placed defensively.
Should´t our Conf. holy city be the wallstreet city? We get 1 gold per building, that should make with let´s say 10 cities on our continent 23 gpt. With commerce (and maybe 1-2 specialists itself) it´s crunching out 40 or more gpt.
Should´t our Conf. holy city be the wallstreet city? We get 1 gold per building, that should make with let´s say 10 cities on our continent 23 gpt. With commerce (and maybe 1-2 specialists itself) it´s crunching out 40 or more gpt.
Well, I shouldn't have written New Dehli (and Wall Street City) but
New Dehli AND Wall street city.
Wall Street should be placed whereever we gain the most income while having scinence at a very high percentage.
Could be Ankara, could be a new holy city, could be a captured holy city, could be New Dehli, we don't know yet.
I forgot to say that the Great Prophet should not be produced in Bursa.
Bursa can run several scientists under caste system while caste has no influence on the number of priests.
New Dehli AND Wall street city.
Wall Street should be placed whereever we gain the most income while having scinence at a very high percentage.
Could be Ankara, could be a new holy city, could be a captured holy city, could be New Dehli, we don't know yet.
I forgot to say that the Great Prophet should not be produced in Bursa.
Bursa can run several scientists under caste system while caste has no influence on the number of priests.
batteryacid
Prince
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I looked at the save, and I believe, Bombay will not be easy to take. It lies on a hill, and Ghandi has already axes and swords, so I guess with 8 swords and 2 cats it will not be enough; we will need at least 4 cats and perehaps really Phants to kill him so the question after the cats is: should I built even more military units or should I throw in Happyness buildings and Lighthouse and then continue with milita? In that case we will need HBR, when I´m not wrong, so I think the best is to mass our swords and cats outside his borders, research HBR and built markets/temples in the meantime and then switch to phants (this is for Edrine and Istanbul). Other cities can produce cheap military units to quench unhappyness (how fast is WW at this level? is it +1 every 3 turns or so?)
The question with spy missions is: Can we afford it? we run a bit low on money at the moment
The question with spy missions is: Can we afford it? we run a bit low on money at the moment
This is a great link in the strategy articles forum:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=241565
We will not run a food-economy (FE or SE) but a hybrid one.
Still, our main commerce centers will be cottaged and we have a science and a merchant colony.
If the merchant colony gets all the Great Merchants, it will be able to grow further and support more merchants as a bonus.
On the other hand, if we get a really nice holy city running, we can settle them there. It depends on how much base income the holy city can generate (at 90, 100% science)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=241565
We will not run a food-economy (FE or SE) but a hybrid one.
Still, our main commerce centers will be cottaged and we have a science and a merchant colony.
If the merchant colony gets all the Great Merchants, it will be able to grow further and support more merchants as a bonus.
On the other hand, if we get a really nice holy city running, we can settle them there. It depends on how much base income the holy city can generate (at 90, 100% science)
I suggest we start the campaign soon, so don't stop military.
Build 2 Phants to protect the stack, 4 cats sounds reasonable to bring down city defense to 0%
Mr. Blonde
Dr. techn.
Spy missions cost spy points, not money!! So HBR-Philo is the techroute. Our cap should build another cat as well as Edrine, then Edrine starts stables and Phants. Trading makes only sense if we can get Lit at the moment as I think Pacifism is the way to go in the religious civics.
batteryacid
Prince
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For Phants we will need HBR , Cats are ok, City defense is not too high (~25% bombay I think), but we will need 2 suicide cats per city (especially bombay with its hill defense) to bring his swords and the axes below 5. Should we adopt peace when we have conquered Bombay and Dheli? Or do we wait how high WW will be? For optics (galleons) we still need metal casting, machinery and compass, so I think raiding possible island cities will take its time.
If we only build a few Phants for protecting the stack and counter in open ground/finish off defenders we should forgo stables, it would simply take too long (IIRC MrB stated this already)
A cat reduces city defense by 8%.
If you build 4, this would mean 32% per round. This way, you can get even the 60% of Dehli down to zero in two turns while the stack is protected by Phants (and chariots, which are excellent defenders against axes).
1 suicide against Bombay would be ok, leaves 3 for Dehli.
If you want more collateral attacks, build 1 ore 2 more.
After we have captured Dehli we could
A: extort his tech and finish him off later
B: finish him off (build a galley in time) which should not take too long as we have his iron
in this case we need his tech by trading before we declare.
Just stick to one plan, don't mixe it up
A cat reduces city defense by 8%.
If you build 4, this would mean 32% per round. This way, you can get even the 60% of Dehli down to zero in two turns while the stack is protected by Phants (and chariots, which are excellent defenders against axes).
1 suicide against Bombay would be ok, leaves 3 for Dehli.
If you want more collateral attacks, build 1 ore 2 more.
After we have captured Dehli we could
A: extort his tech and finish him off later
B: finish him off (build a galley in time) which should not take too long as we have his iron
in this case we need his tech by trading before we declare.
Just stick to one plan, don't mixe it up
batteryacid
Prince
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I will play inan hour or so. My plan will be to build 4-5 cats, mass our chariot/ax/swords. I will build the LA city, but the question is according to our old dotmap position or to our new? Great scientist will build academy in either Istanbul or Ankara, should our GPF then be switched to priests ?
THe other open question is when to switch to cast system, now or when our phants and market/temples are built? So my guess will be that I will play ~15 rounds and give you a save with a nice stack to finish ghandi
THe other open question is when to switch to cast system, now or when our phants and market/temples are built? So my guess will be that I will play ~15 rounds and give you a save with a nice stack to finish ghandi
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