Multiplayer questions - Brad?

[ac196nataku]

She can't join my game. When she tries to join it, the screen basically locks up for a little bit and then when it unfreezes, the ping jumps from single digits to like a couple thousands for a about a second.

 

[Brad Oliver]

She can't join my game. When she tries to join it, the screen basically locks up for a little bit and then when it unfreezes, the ping jumps from single digits to like a couple thousands for a about a second.

So if you host a game, you can each see the other's game in the lobby (inside of Civ3) but you can't join? Have you tried setting up a private 2-player game through GameRanger?

 

[ac196nataku]

No, I don't know how to do that. But I would suspect that would require two CD keys no? From experience I find that usually direct LAN is fine but connecting across the internet usually requires two different copies. How can I try this GameRanger thing?

BTW, I want to clarify that I never actually get a window or anything telling me what the problem is; I'm just assuming its timing out.

EDIT- Also, I'm not an administrator on her computer, only our father is. I should probably just ask him to open a couple of those mentioned ports and see if it works, but I keep forgetting to do so. I have them open on mine for sure.

 

[AlanH]

If her OS X firewall is on with those ports blocked then you won't be able to join her game for sure. You'll see it, because her Mac advertises it on the LAN, but to join it you need to be able to initiate a connection inbound to her Mac, and the firewall will stop that in its tracks.

 

[ac196nataku]

I'm hosting.

 

[AlanH]

Same applies. Your system will try to set up a connection to hers at some point and it will fail if the firewall blocks that port.

 

[MAS]

No, I don't know how to do that. But I would suspect that would require two CD keys no? From experience I find that usually direct LAN is fine but connecting across the internet usually requires two different copies. How can I try this GameRanger thing?

Wait, how does one of you both even launch the game without a valid 2th copy of the game? (*don't answer, that was a rhetorical question)

I don't like to sound like one of those annoying pro-copyright guys but ...
purely legally speaking, you are in fact always required to have a "cd-key" for each copy of the game that is running.

you could try a hotseat game.

For GameRanger, you will have to download the GameRanger client.
How to go from there speaks for it self IMO.

 

[ac196nataku]

EDIT- Removal of self-incrimination of illegal activities.

We have tried hotseat but it starts really really slow and is quite annoying moving one worker and then handing over the mouse and, if necessary, scooting over after mere seconds.

 

[Padma]

You are legally able to make a backup, but that is as a *backup*, not as a 2nd copy to play with. And if you read the fine print on the license agreement, you will find that it says you can put it on *one* machine, and that if you want to put it on another machine, you must remove the copy on the first machine. (It may not say exactly that, the the intent is usually pretty clearly spelled out.) So whether you see it that way or not, technically, it's illegal.

 

[MAS]

I own the game, legally I could make a back up of it, at least as far I can remember, perhaps the law has changed or I am misunderstanding it.

But anyway, C3C only checks the CD on bootup, so I just eject the disk afterwards and put it in the other computer. Seeing as I paid for the disk and I own both computers, I wouldn't see that as illegal.

I agree with your sentiment but it wasn't ment to be..

To be more exactly, you payed for using the software, not for the software itself. And you can only use it under the conditions the copyright holder declares. These conditions are under "license condittions", page 221 of the manual (pdf on the disk)
The law in some nations allow you to make a back-up copy, this law overrules the wishes of the copyright holder. But a back-up is just a back-up. and nothing more.

If I remember correctly the license for Age of Empires allows an X number of people in a multyplayer game per cd. This set-up would have been nice for more games, including Civ3.
Maybe you could ask Aspyr/Firaxis to create such a license for their future releases. (not much hope, but better than no hope at all)

 

[Brad Oliver]

If I remember correctly the license for Age of Empires allows an X number of people in a multyplayer game per cd. This set-up would have been nice for more games, including Civ3.

I suspect one of two things is going amiss here: firewall issues or CD key issues. CD Key problems should display a dialog indicating the nature of the problem (in my testing) whereas firewall issues are more likely to silently fail.

The enumeration traffic (the stuff that allows you to see what games are available on the network) uses a different method of communication than the actual game networking, so you should not take it as a sign that your firewall is correctly configured if you can see the game being hosted on another Mac. Food for thought.

 

[Beamup]

An approach I've used to test similar problems in the past has worked well. The first step is to disconnect both computers from any external network, and have them on an isolated LAN by themselves. Try connecting there just to be sure - let's assume it doesn't work. Then I turn off the firewalls completely and see whether it works now.

It's a very fast and safe way to confirm whether or not it's a firewall problem. If you're a bit more daring, you can skip the first step and stay connected to the Internet while testing the firewalls - but if possible, it's better to be secure.

The problem this solves is the difficulty of knowing what sort of ports or whatever might be involved. More than once I've spent hours messing with port settings in the firewall, only to find out eventually that wasn't what was happening at all...

 

[MAS]

Brad, I have the Idea you wanted to say something else, used a Quote-tag, then changed your mind and posted what you did.

What was it you wanted to say?

 

[ac196nataku]

Alright, well I'll see if I can get the administrator to open up those ports and if all else fails whatever. Hotseat isn't anywhere nearly as bad as I make it out to be. Haha. In fact most of the things I complain about are innately going to happen on LAN anyway.

 

[Brad Oliver]

Brad, I have the Idea you wanted to say something else, used a Quote-tag, then changed your mind and posted what you did.

Very astute. When I get it sorted out, I'll be sure and post again.

 

[AlanH]

GameRanger has announced a new version that claims to play nice with routers. Might be worth giving this version a shot if, like me, you've been seeing connection failures with Civ3 Complete. When you connect your Gameranger updates automagically, and the News screen shows:

GameRanger 4.5 Released

- Added bypassing of modems and routers so that no configuration / port forwarding is needed to host or join games. Anyone can host or join now

- Added more new reliability features to in-game voice

- Added support for hosting games while hosting internet sharing to joiners on the same local network

- Joiner games terminate immediately when host aborts so no one is left in the game

- GameRanger no longer prevents screensavers activating or iChat going idle

- "Ghost" games no longer appear in the game list when only the demo was installed

- Doom 3 server list now shows v1.3 servers

- Worked around an OS bug that occasionally caused the Browse button to freeze

- Worked around an OS speech bug that was causing GameRanger to crash while in a game

- Improved the quality of most plug-in icons

- Green dot shows immediately before launching game

- Changed the "started a room" server message to "opened a room"

- Fixed a disconnection that happened when launching a game that you were already in

- Fixed expired Premium members leaving offline buddies still hidden

- Fixed some unreported crashes and other issues on OS X 10.0 and 10.1

- Fixed the Setup Assistant allowing long or invalid nicknames that the server would reject

For more information about the router changes, see:
<www.GameRanger.com/help/network/>

This message can be displayed again by choosing GameRanger News under the Help menu.

 

[AlanH]

Just tried with a couple of players who happened to be in GameRanger. It still didn't work for me.

 

[hdwriter]

Just tried with a couple of players who happened to be in GameRanger. It still didn't work for me.

I chatted with Evill (I'm told he IS GameRanger) and was told that he has not been able to test with C3C and knows it is not working properly. He told me that he's waiting for Aspyr to send him a copy of the game before he can even start testing.

If what he says is true, I'm surprised that Aspyr would so publicly state that their game includes GameRanger support. On the other hand, there may be more to the story than I've been told.

In any event, I was disappointed to find that C3C and GameRanger don't play nice together.

 

[promethean_beta]

On page 180 of the manual it says"
"Note: Only one player who is behind a firewall can be in a
game.
In order to join a game on the Internet through the built in
Game Ranger software, the following ports must be opened:
Action Port
IRC 6667
Voice Chat Port 3783
Master Server UDP Heartbeat 27900
Master Server List Request 28900
GP Connection Manager 29900
GP Search Manager 29901
Custom UDP Pings 13139
Query Port 6500
DirectPlay 2302
Initial UDP Connection 6073 Outbound
Subsequent UDP Inbound and Outbound 2302-2400
180
In order to join or host a game on the Internet through Game
Ranger software or direct IP, the following port must be
opened: 10233."

Specifically that last port (10233) must be open for gameranger use, there are instructions on gameranger's website as to how to instruct your router to open that port. I had problems making Civ work on Gameranger until I opened that port.
Hope that is helpful,
Promethean_Beta

 

[AlanH]

Which manual is the first part from, and what relevance does it have if the final sentence only refers to one port? Have you opened all those ports?

On my page 180 I only see the last sentence you quote, and my port 10233 has been open for all attempts I've made, for both UDP and TCP protocols.

Page 181 states: "If problems occur after opening this port you will want to make sure the UPnP services are enabled on your router ....". I have no UPnP services on my rotuer and I assumed that was my problem. The new version of GR software claims to be more router friendly, which is why I tried it again, but no joy.