Multiple unit/building build que

[KrikkitTwo]

Thats not the same as saying that production ability isn't the main binding constraint on your military size. Which they didn't say.
?

True, but they DID say they were moving war/military away from the production race.

Implying primarily less economic impact on your military capacity (I'm almost certain they want this,
wanting more tactics and less more/better units to be the focus)

But it additionally suggests possible less focus on building/getting units and more on maintaining them (because maintenance costs of units can depend on their tactical/strategic situation... you can have maintenance vary with 'range' of the unit/supply lines/damage the unit has taken, etc.)

This would fit well with few units, build them rarely, upgrade and preserve them for long periods of time.


Also if production is the main binding constraint on units, then the late game will bog down with MM. Because your number of units will continually be Increasing while you are at peace, OR if you are in a successful war.

Because 1upt makes CivV more sensitive to the number of units (100 Civ V units would be far more annoying than 100 CivIV units) and
they said they want to maintain the same pace throughout the game,
then having number of units that you probably have be something that increases throughout the game
would cause the game to Seriously bog down

(alternative is that unit cost goes up far faster than productivity... ie Early city makes 10 pt, warrior costs 20, Modern City makes 100 pt, Tank costs 2000)

 

[Ahriman]

Implying primarily less economic impact on your military capacity (I'm almost certain they want this,
wanting more tactics and less more/better units to be the focus)

But it additionally suggests possible less focus on building/getting units and more on maintaining them

Please source this. This is pure speculation.

alternative is that unit cost goes up far faster than productivity...

Exactly. And unit power can still go up with unit cost.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Please source this. This is pure speculation.

It implies one of those two. I prefer the second interpretation, but the first is more likely (with the 1upt)

Exactly. And unit power can still go up with unit cost.

True, but even that would alter the nature of the game.

If an early game unit takes 3-10 turns to build
and a late game unit takes 20-60 turns to build
it changes the Nature of the game.

The only way to maintain the Flow of the game consistently is to have the "Build time" for a unit be roughly constant.

This means that to also maintain roughly the same proportion (units to cities) to maintain a consistent feel through the game, that maintenance should be a factor just as, if not more significant than production cost. (so the game will have 'build up' phases when your empire expands but those can be at any time in the game)

 

[The_J]

It implies one of those two. I prefer the second interpretation, but the first is more likely (with the 1upt)

For me it doesn't imply this.
They've already said, that other factors will influence the military, like the upkeep is tied to the empire's happiness. This implies an even bigger impact.

True, but even that would alter the nature of the game.

If an early game unit takes 3-10 turns to build
and a late game unit takes 20-60 turns to build
it changes the Nature of the game.

The only way to maintain the Flow of the game consistently is to have the "Build time" for a unit be roughly constant.

This means that to also maintain roughly the same proportion (units to cities) to maintain a consistent feel through the game, that maintenance should be a factor just as, if not more significant than production cost. (so the game will have 'build up' phases when your empire expands but those can be at any time in the game)

Um, in Civ4 you can often build a unit in the late game within 1 round, which you sure can't at the beginning.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Um, in Civ4 you can often build a unit in the late game within 1 round, which you sure can't at the beginning.

Which would be TERRIBLE in civ V

If you build units faster, or even just as fast, toward the end of the game
AND
Building units was the primary restriction (rather than maintaining them)

Then the civ V late game will be 1upt MM hell.

so one of those must not be true

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

The multiple build mod that I have seen in use for Rise of mankind: A new dawn doesn't build in parallel, but rather it builds extra units if you have the extra shields. So, let's say my city produces 100 shields a turn. The mod would allow me to build 2 units that take 50 units each to build in one turn rather than 2. This is what I thought the OP was referring to.

 

[morss_4]

The system Krikkitone is suggesting sounds like the system in EU3. You pay a relatively small fee to recruit a regiment, then you have to pay a relatively large fee to maintain the regiment over time. The result is that you are basically never limited in how many units you can build, and are basically always limited in how many you can afford to maintain. Both recruiting and maintaining regiments costs ducats (gold) and yes in that game when you build a workshop or a factory it increases the amount of ducats (gold) you produce.

To be clear the system works extremely well and is quite fun.

I certainly won't suggest that the system works well for all types of games. Hearts of Iron, made by the same company and the same development team, goes the complete opposite direction. In that game you are pretty much always limited in how many units you can build and pretty much never limited in how many units you can maintain, which is more like Civ.

It depends on what kind of game they want to make Civ V into. If the intent is to have a small number of units then there are basically two ways to do that.

1. Crank up maintenance fees (move the game into a maintenance limited direction).
2. Crank up unit build times.

The problem with the 2nd option is that you end up with it taking a really long time to build an army. This may or may not be desirable for game play. There is something to be said for instant gratification, and no one likes looking at a build queue and saying "well in 25 turns I'll have that tank."

I don't know how they'll do it in Civ V, but I trust that whatever system they end up with will be fun.