my Dotmap

[Tukker]

I decided to try and make my first dotmap and im sure I've made too many errors so if anyone want to take a look at it and give me some advice on it.

I mainly tried to get alot of resources in the borders of my cities, The black dot is where my first city is already placed. Caesar is to my south and Genghis Khan is to my north

Here is the empty version of it if I misplaced too many of the cities and someone wants to draw a new dotmap:

Added a save game for the people who want to take a look at it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/57663/Daniel_BC-2230.CivWarlordsSave

Thanks in advance

 

[oyzar]

the pigs/copper one should obviously be one more n to get full advantage of the pigs It also can overlap with some riverside plains cottages from the gold/pigs though you can place that one north as well though that will lose you one floodplains(in exhange for sevral grasslands. The stone/copper site should be one site cause otherwise you dont have enough food to do anything(and even one south its a pretty crappy city). Settling on reassources is generaly not worth it. The same goes for the rice spot. Settling that one south will also give you access to loads more workable land titles(cottages is generally almost allways better to work than water titles).

 

[kuukkeli]

I'm a bit noobish so take this with a grain of salt. First, you don't want to settle on resources too often. Your capital has good production potential which is very lucky as other city sites lack on that area. Also I didn't look at the save so I hope there's nothing important that I've missed.

I'd probably start with the red city followed by the pink. Red claims the 2nd copper after border pop (1st copper is already within your culture so there's no immediate need to get it within the initial city radius) and gives you an opportunity to block Augustus from the northern part of the continent and it has a decent commercial city potential. Pink is a good commerce city site.

After that it depends whether or not you're going to wage war against Augustus: if yes then your next cities are probably obtained through conquest and next settlers fill in the gaps between those and the three you've built yourself; if not then it depends on what Genghis does in the north.

Cyan is a terrific commerce city and will probably be your science city #1. Orange looks like a potential GP farm with its two fishes and farmable tiles. Dark blue is another good cottage city and I suppose light blue will be mostly cottaged as well.

Green is a quality fishing village. Yellow is more like a traditional filler but despite of its filler status it actually has very good production when compared to your other cities. And the brown one in the south is a miserable stone city. I hope you're not planning to build lots of wonders cause the location of the stone doesn't allow too good cities.

I hope that the more experienced players agree with me on at least some of the cities

 

[oyzar]

on kuukkeli's map the yellow spot is absolutly horrible and you would prolly be better of just not setting it as it got absolutly no food. red 1N of pigs is obviously better since itlet you work the copper on grassland instead of on desert(which is very much better). You cant work desert anyways and coastal isnt that big of a deal since you wont work most of the coastal titles anyways. His medium blue spot could work quite some cottages and is decent i supose. His teal + orange spot is an improvement as both cities gain fershwaterbonus. Teal could be an awesome GP farm(though you can just cottage it up however it does have an insane food surplus with 4 silk + corn. Dark blue is obviously nice for cottages and as earlier noted land >> sea. You'll reduce maintanance heavily by just settling S of the rice though this might not be an issue on lower difficulties and hence it might just be better to just settle both dark blue and green.

 

[kuukkeli]

on kuukkeli's map the yellow spot is absolutly horrible and you would prolly be better of just not setting it as it got absolutly no food.

Now that I look at it you're most certainly right. Yellow is useless

red 1N of pigs is obviously better since itlet you work the copper on grassland instead of on desert(which is very much better).

I think I can agree with this one as well. I was originally hesitant of that much overlap but it shouldn't be a problem. 1N of pigs is most probably better than my original red.

Teal could be an awesome GP farm(though you can just cottage it up however it does have an insane food surplus with 4 silk + corn.

You mean 4 sugar I just think it would be a waste to use this site as GP farm. I think that the orange site has big enough food surplus to be very decent GP farm.

 

[oyzar]

and yeah 4 sugar which are all 4 food each. It would addmitedly also be an awesome science city but you pretty much cant get a better GP farm than that.

 

[xanadux]

One thing to consider is that one incredible city plus a good city is generally better than 2 very good cities. What makes an incredible city? Massive amounts of food. Regardless of what the other tiles are, you should always be thinking about how much food surplus you can get. One of the primary reasons for this is that food=production. More food means you can work more mined hills, or you can whip and regrow quickly. Massive food is good for a specialist economy. Massive food is good for a cottage economy. With a specialist economy, If you have 4 5food tiles, you can run 7 specialists at size 11. With a cottage economy, you can whip 4 or 5 pop at a time and still not sacrifice much cottage working because you can grow back a pop point every 2 turns. Unhealthiness doesn't hurt so much with massive food, and you can even allow your cities to grow a couple pop points past happiness for better whipping because you can! Since you have copper available already, the first city you should settle is 1sw of the corn ... freshwater bonus, long river, corn plus 3 sugars. This is a complete monster city that will single-handedly fuel your economy at monarch level and below. It really doesn't matter if you go SE or CE, this city will be a commercial wonder. Irrigate the corn and the 2 river sugars (switch to plantations with calendar or cottage them if you want). As the game progresses, I would cottage the 2 river sugars, and plantation the other one to get the sugar hooked in. With a city cite this incredible, I'm not much concerned with early conquest. This city will generate a massive amount of commerce and also massive production with the whip. Consider making this your globe theatre city (unless you go SE, then national epic may be better). That much food plus globe means you can whip as fast as you can grow and never worry about happiness.

 

[kuukkeli]

Since you have copper available already, the first city you should settle is 1sw of the corn ... freshwater bonus, long river, corn plus 3 sugars.

Are you sure? What benefit does this have over the cyan/teal city - freshwater, long river, corn and 4 sugar? Only real difference I see is that city 1SW of corn is considerable worse for other cities (5 more overlapping tiles and the 4th sugar will almost certainly be missed altogether).

 

[xanadux]

I was looking at the map wrong. I was thinking 1 sw of the original blue dot and erroneously said 1 sw of corn. 1s of corn is definitely the best spot.

 

[oyzar]

That city is horrible for the early game as you have to clear jungle first, you also need calendar. On higher difficulties this would be even worse as its hard to get enough happiness and health to suport such huge cities.

 

[kuukkeli]

That city is horrible for the early game as you have to clear jungle first, you also need calendar. On higher difficulties this would be even worse as its hard to get enough happiness and health to suport such huge cities.

Yes, I wouldn't even consider it as the 2nd city either because of the jungle and long distance from the capital. Also it doesn't provide any important resources for early game. OTOH as a mid and late game city it is most excellent.

 

[DNK]

Here's my stab at it. I'm thinking the founding city (1) would make a good production center: plenty of food, and I'd be surprised if iron or horses didn't pop up somewhere else in it's bfc (two resources seems pretty weak for a typical founding site). Of course, it might just be uranium and aluminum though.

2 second for reasons already mentioned (too much chopping for 3). It also has a strong production base and food base for the early game, which should really help whip out those early rushers. Later, I'd leave it for a decent science/commerce (s/c from now on) city. Not great, but you could always switch to some limited production role if the situation called for it (plains, plains hill, and copper guarantee it would be useful), and otherwise just work the cottages until late game when it grew to 14+ pop.

3 and 4 might actually be better after 5, now that I consider the jungle limitations. I think 3 would be your best bet for a GP farm: pigs and 3 flood plains, plus an easily irrigated grasslands should be enough. Of course, shift 7 down one and it could work well, too. I'm not huge on GP farms, so perhaps it's a little weak.

3 could be a real production city. Grasslands all around, plus food extra on some, plenty of hills, and corn to boot! Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sugar should still produce 3 food even if it isn't being plantationed, which means workshop spam, mine the hills, and there you go. Perhaps some plains hills and metal/stone resources would be nice, but you might just get lucky yet...

4, general commerce. The fact is that there's probably something lurking in there, like iron or oil, as that's a lot of ground for just one resource.

6, general commerce. Same for 7 and 8. Gotta love financial leaders, as coastal cities can still work out well.

9 is sort of a "whatever" city, although if you're going for a wonder that gets discounted with stone, you might want to take it early.



Really, without seeing what's below and above it's hard to tell exactly what to do with the other squares, and the exact order. You might find that Caesar has much nicer land... He should really share it. In fact, I think it's your duty to make sure he does share it with everyone... but you should also take a cut for letting everyone share it, say around a 100% cut. Same with Genghis.

Kidding aside, this is a pretty good start. I'd prefer to have both civs on the same side in case of a double-team. Keep an eye on your back. I'd prefer to attack Khan first, simply because that's the direction we're thinking of expanding into, and you can quickly cut Caesar off with 2. Then again, Khan might be too far for an effective rush. In fact, it'd be 16-17 turns before your first axes showed up... bleh. He'd be too well fortified by then probably.

 

[oyzar]

city does nothing... it doesnt even get the fish... city 1 is his capital... Almost in every situation its better go get freshwater bonus for city 2 than fearing overlapping a couple more titles. There is no reason not to place city 4 1N to get the sugar. In the same wein city 7 shoould go one south to ge the fish... How do you manage to make dotmaps that miss so many reasources? :S

 

[DNK]

...with skill

Yeah, you're right. A few shifts would really benefit that setup. BUT, I wasn't planning too far north, which meant that I wanted to keep that sugar for a future city up there, especially since it would need it, but then again 4 needs it with a lack of irrigable land, so I suppose you're right.

 

[Killroyan]

City number 2 of DNK's map is a no brainer. It blocks of Ceasar completely from getting to your land which leaves you only with Genghis to worry about. Also have you researched animal husbandry already or iron working? These two things can totally mess with you dotmap. I don't agree with 4 and 8 of DNK's map. 8 is totally useless with no resources and hardly any tiles to work. Filler city at most. 4 will never grow since it will be unhealthy from the start with over 12 jungle tiles!!!! I can't make a dotmap right now but I would place 4 2 tiles east. Then you will have rice, fish and enough land to work. The top sugars then could help an additional city but getting more then 5-6 cities is normally madness so concentrate on the great ones. So 2 is the no brainer. Then 3,5 and 6 for the great cities. 9 next if you want to build some wonders (9 sooner if you want to go for GW, Pyramids or stonehenge) and then 4. This will give you a solid empire.

 

[oyzar]

The city N of pigs also blcok ceasar...

 

[Killroyan]

Indeed, but isn't coastal. However there are at least 4 potential coastal cities so that isn't so bad to go 1N of the pigs. 1N has more potential.

 

[Tukker]

Thanks for the advice all and taking the time to make those dotmaps .

I quess I could skip city 8 unless some kind of strategic resource comes on top of it.

I just wonder about city 9 doesn't it have too much desert ?

as for the thing I didn't research iron working yet. I don't really find it too important to find iron when I got copper. Should I research Iron working earlier? I thought it was only needed for swordsman ?

 

[Vizzini]

Pink or Red from kuukkeli's map are the only two reasonable options.

* They're both on the same river as the capital. Instant resrouce hookup without need of a road.

* Pink provides happiness (gold/incense) and commerce (gold/incense) and floodplains for even more . Will make a very good (too many plains tiles to be considered "great") Commerce city.

* Red provides... two resources you already have. Stone with the 2nd culture pop (altho it'll be a little late for that to be much use) Better growth and potential than Pink.

Either way is a good city, but I'd go Pink first to secure the potential that city holds. Grab the red city plot just as soon as you possibly can afterwards.

 

[oyzar]

you need ironworking to be able to get rid of all that jungle! Very important on this map.