[Vanilla] My first King game: Aztecs

[intellectsucks]

Hey all, I’m trying to improve my game as much as possible so I figured I start a shadow game. I chose random leader, standard speed, standard size, Pangaea map. Ended up with my favorite madman from Civ 4, Montezuma. I’ve never played as Montezuma before, so I’m excited to try him out. I’ll post screenshots as I go and save files. Feel free to comment and criticize (be BRUTAL!!), as there is a ton that I have to learn.

Spoiler :

T1-T17: I settled Tenochtitlan on the Tea to the south, next to the river, sent my Eagle Warrior north to explore and chose scout as my first unit. Warrior almost immediately ran into Bandar Brunei to the north. I’m pumped to get a free envoy for meeting them first; my last game I wasn’t the first to meet a single city state. Turned to the right after meeting them and discovered that the landmass I’m on is very narrow, came back south to reveal the rest of the terrain between Tenochtitlan and a barb camp spawned. Warrior doubled back and took them out. Scout was built and went southwest, snagging a goody hut (woohoo!). Next two builds are slinger, settler, builder. Hit code of laws and get a gub’mint, choose Discipline (+5 vs Barbs) and God King (+1 faith, +1 gold in capital, +1 awesome name of policy). Warrior went North of Bandar Brunei and I’m a little worried about him getting trapped up there. I can see that there’s another city state to the south. I’ll probably have to take at least one of these two out to keep from getting boxed in. Tech tree went mining, pottery, started bronze working and will switch to archery before I start eating into the boost. My slinger already popped and killed a barb scout. Trying to decide on where to settle next city, option 1 or option 2? I’m leaning towards option 2 (so I guess I should have named it option 1 huh?) so that I have a luxury after selling this first tea and for the fresh water housing boost.

Spoiler :

T17-T26: Warrior hit the top of the map and grabbed a goody hut. Going to see if I can get him back south to the capital (Killing a barb camp on the way). La Venta was the city state (CS) to the south and I was also the first to meet them too. I’ll almost certainly end up taking them out, as the rest of the map is south and I don’t really prioritize Holy Sites or faith. Looks like there is another city state south of La Venta. Scout revealed a continent so I didn’t have to switch civics to hold off on the boost. Settler popped and I’m moving him towards the 2nd city options. Fell asleep at the wheel and went a turn or two too far into Bronze working before switching to animal husbandry to archery. Assuming my warrior can make it to that barb camp, that should reveal Iron and I should have a better idea of where I’m going then.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[tiamats4esgares]

Overall not a bad start, but here's some critiques I have.

You should never got for God King unless you already have another source of faith. Its best use is to found a pantheon earlier, but it's too slow on its own to do that. You did end up meeting La Venta and got a free envoy to them, which made it work out in the end, but the chances of that happening are generally low and you shouldn't plan on it happening. You should've taken the +1 production first and THEN switched to God King after having met La Venta.

Option 2 is better for your 2nd city than option 1, mainly because it's on a lake instead of coast which gives +2 more housing. But, I think it would be better if you settled one tile to the west. The reason that founding your capital on a luxury resource is a good thing is to trade to another civ once you meet them. There are actually FOUR reasons why you shouldn't settle on the tea now: 1) You haven't met any other civs to trade it to, 2) Even if you have, it's your second copy so you'd need to meet TWO civs to trade away to, 3) It won't even give you happiness since you already have tea, and 4) The main reason to not settle on luxuries....by improving it, you get more yields than if you were to settle it. In addition to all that, by moving one tile to the west you allow a city to be built on your option 1 in the future (otherwise you'd be too close to it), AND you're closer to the bananas while still having just as much stone within the 2-tile radius.)

If you sell your first tea, you won't need a luxury resource until your 2nd city gets to size 3 or your first one to size 5. By then, hopefully you'll have researched irrigation so you can put a plantation on that tea.

You're on a roll to get an early pantheon, and you can probably pick up the one that give a free settler. If you do, you'll have 3 cities out early. I would wait until you research Early Empire before I build another settler. You may as well get some warriors out now, if you want to take out La Venta.

EDIT: I knew there was something else I was going to say but forgot what it was. I remembered as soon as I hit send. XD ....You have too much gold. You need to use it to help snowball yourself, otherwise it's just sitting there collecting dust. I ALWAYS spend all my gold unless there's something specific I'm saving up for and don't have enough yet.

You should use your gold probably to get a Builder and a Warrior, maybe even an extra of one of those if you have enough by the time you read this. I generally spend most of my gold early on buying builders and tiles.

 

[Victoria]

You must have slaves, where are your slaves!
The only thing north of value is some pearls... find those slaves.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

You should never got for God King unless you already have another source of faith. Its best use is to found a pantheon earlier, but it's too slow on its own to do that. You did end up meeting La Venta and got a free envoy to them, which made it work out in the end, but the chances of that happening are generally low and you shouldn't plan on it happening. You should've taken the +1 production first and THEN switched to God King after having met La Venta.

Totally disagree with this, it might be right on higher levels but on King you've got it back to front, if you've got another source of faith then you can ignore God King otherwise it's the right call. At King you're going to get a decent Pantheon especially if it really is Vanilla where the AI will make bad choices (although you won't get a free Settler as that came with Gathering Storm).

My question is why are you building anything other than Eagle Warriors!! Send them out to capture other cities and, as @Victoria says, slaves.

Finally, especially in the early game, if you want good advice only play a turn or two - 26 turns in the early game is far too much of you really want to learn.

Good luck!

 

[tiamats4esgares]

Totally disagree with this, it might be right on higher levels but on King you've got it back to front, if you've got another source of faith then you can ignore God King otherwise it's the right call. At King you're going to get a decent Pantheon especially if it really is Vanilla where the AI will make bad choices (although you won't get a free Settler as that came with Gathering Storm).

My question is why are you building anything other than Eagle Warriors!! Send them out to capture other cities and, as @Victoria says, slaves.

Finally, especially in the early game, if you want good advice only play a turn or two - 26 turns in the early game is far too much of you really want to learn.

Good luck!

I didn't realize the faith to found a pantheon was lower on lower difficulties.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I didn't realize the faith to found a pantheon was lower on lower difficulties.

It's not, the amount of faith required is set by game speed.

 

[intellectsucks]

I didn't realize the faith to found a pantheon was lower on lower difficulties.

I think the point was that on higher difficulties, the AI is more likely to get a pantheon first, so unless you have other sources of faith, God King is unlikely to get you there in time.

 

[JesseS]

I wouldn't settle either option 1 or 2 immediately. You're at the mouth of an isthmus on a Pangaea map, with no other civilizations around to contest the land to your north in the coming turns. Instead, start expanding south, where there is going to be more competition for land. There's a great coastal city immediately east of the southern bananas near the mountains (you start working a 3f/2p tile, then expand to a bunch of 2f/2p or better tiles, with eventual opportunity for an adjacent +3 harbor and +5 campus/holy site in the mountains). Housing will be a bit of an early bottleneck, but the production line will be strong enough to get both a monument and granary built relatively quickly.

Though I'm generally not a fan of taking city states, your situation is calling out for conquering La Venta (ideally right after you found a pantheon). They're blocking off your expansion to the south/southwest and it's a good city with strong tiles and mountains for campus/holy site adjacency. With eagle warriors and a couple supporting archers, you should be able to take them quickly and gain some builders while doing so. After that, I'd start planning a Petra city in the desert hills south of La Venta, along with a few other cities in the fog of war to the south.

As for your scouting, I think you went too far north with your initial eagle warrior and should've turned back after hitting tundra. Bandar Brunei is a buffer for any barbs spawning in the tundra, but the camp southwest of Bandar Brunei could be very problematic for you if a barb scout ends up finding your capital.

You should prioritize spending your gold on culture and production a bit more as well. A monument purchase would double your current culture, letting you get to Political Philosophy and Military Tradition that much quicker. Eagle Warriors are good, but will still lose to a mass of AI warriors with Oligarchy and flanking/support bonuses. Purchasing a 2f/2p tile in your capital to work would be a good investment of your current gold as well (17% increase in current production for ~55 gold).

Also, I think you made the right choice with going for an initial God King policy. Pantheons have value, even if you don't get an especially early one. You'll probably be able to get the free settler one in this game (note, it does count as building a settler in terms of raising the cost of every subsequent settler), but God of the Forge (+25% production to Ancient/Classical military units) is also good with the Aztecs. Based on your map, Goddess of Festivals (+1 culture to plantations) is a pretty good fall-back option as well. Just make sure you switch for Urban Planning and Agoge as soon as you can.

 

[mrkzchh2]

I wouldn't settle either option 1 or 2 immediately. You're at the mouth of an isthmus on a Pangaea map, with no other civilizations around to contest the land to your north in the coming turns. Instead, start expanding south, where there is going to be more competition for land. There's a great coastal city immediately east of the southern bananas near the mountains (you start working a 3f/2p tile, then expand to a bunch of 2f/2p or better tiles, with eventual opportunity for an adjacent +3 harbor and +5 campus/holy site in the mountains). Housing will be a bit of an early bottleneck, but the production line will be strong enough to get both a monument and granary built relatively quickly.

Though I'm generally not a fan of taking city states, your situation is calling out for conquering La Venta (ideally right after you found a pantheon). They're blocking off your expansion to the south/southwest and it's a good city with strong tiles and mountains for campus/holy site adjacency. With eagle warriors and a couple supporting archers, you should be able to take them quickly and gain some builders while doing so. After that, I'd start planning a Petra city in the desert hills south of La Venta, along with a few other cities in the fog of war to the south.

As for your scouting, I think you went too far north with your initial eagle warrior and should've turned back after hitting tundra. Bandar Brunei is a buffer for any barbs spawning in the tundra, but the camp southwest of Bandar Brunei could be very problematic for you if a barb scout ends up finding your capital.

You should prioritize spending your gold on culture and production a bit more as well. A monument purchase would double your current culture, letting you get to Political Philosophy and Military Tradition that much quicker. Eagle Warriors are good, but will still lose to a mass of AI warriors with Oligarchy and flanking/support bonuses. Purchasing a 2f/2p tile in your capital to work would be a good investment of your current gold as well (17% increase in current production for ~55 gold).

Also, I think you made the right choice with going for an initial God King policy. Pantheons have value, even if you don't get an especially early one. You'll probably be able to get the free settler one in this game (note, it does count as building a settler in terms of raising the cost of every subsequent settler), but God of the Forge (+25% production to Ancient/Classical military units) is also good with the Aztecs. Based on your map, Goddess of Festivals (+1 culture to plantations) is a pretty good fall-back option as well. Just make sure you switch for Urban Planning and Agoge as soon as you can.

Hi, I have a question. How many plantation tiles do you approximately need to have to consider Goddess of Festivals?

 

[tiamats4esgares]

Hi, I have a question. How many plantation tiles do you approximately need to have to consider Goddess of Festivals?

Note that it's a fall back option only, but, I'd say personally more than 1 per city on average. 1 per city is half as much as a monument, by comparison; not a huge buff really.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

How many plantation tiles do you approximately need to have to consider Goddess of Festivals?

It also depends where, if you have 3 or more in the Capital it can be worthwhile as a quick boost.

 

[intellectsucks]

Hey guys, sorry for the delay, but haven't had a lot of game time this week, except for the one night when I got drunk and foolishly played 50 awful turns on this save. After that debacle and after considering some of the advice here, I decided to restart this one.

I played through a bit more, building more eagle warriors this time and focusing more on exploration to the south.

Spoiler :

Found Yosemite but it looks underwhelming. Also got another city state bonus and met Ben Kingsley Ghandi. Sent him a delegation, but just now realized I forgot to sell him tea. I did end up going God King again, but only because I knew I had La Venta very close and figured an early pantheon would be nice. Please note that this is Vanilla Civ 6 so none of the pantheons give an extra settler.

Spoiler :

I liked JesseS's advice about city placement and took it, settling city 2 further south. Barbs were a mild issue this time around, spawning 2 horsemen and a horse archer from the north and pillaging one of my improvements (a camp on the deer). I was able to fight them off and will follow them to their camp to make sure they're not an issue again. I'm sure if I was playing as Gilgamesh, then Bandar Brunei would have destroyed the camp already to screw me out of the bonus; since I'm not, they seem to be taking their sweet old time dealing with barbs.

Plans: Build 1 or 2 more Eagle Warriors and 1 or 2 more slingers/archers, then go and stick it to La Venta in a very uncomfortable place (no not the back of a Volkswagen). Ghandi looks like he could use the same treatment. I hate that Mohenjo Daro is also in my way but I'm reluctant to take them out for a couple of reasons. First, their city sucks a big one and would be useless to raze; second I could use the culture boost. I am an inherently violent Civ player though, so I could be convinced to go after them VERY easily.

Since I plan on dealing so much death and destruction in the near future, I'll probably look to settle closer to those horses and go horseback riding UNLESS I find iron more easily accessible.

Thanks for the feedback so far!! Enjoying it a lot!!

P.S. Can't seem to find the save files, but if I do, I'll upload it.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I hate that Mohenjo Daro is also in my way but I'm reluctant to take them out for a couple of reasons. First, their city sucks a big one and would be useless to raze; second I could use the culture boost.

You missed the biggest reason - their suzerain bonus is one of the best in the game!!

 

[Aabraxan]

You must have slaves, where are your slaves!....

Where would one learn more about these slaves of which you speak? They sound useful.

 

[Victoria]

Where would one learn more about these slaves of which you speak? They sound useful.

Play the aztecs, just build a few eagle warriors and attack whatever you can find with them, you will get slaves aplenty.

 

[Aabraxan]

Eeeexxxcccellent!

 

[intellectsucks]

A few more turns:

Spoiler :

Found Ghandi's city, along with one of his settlers wandering around. Ghandi had a decidedly neutral feel to him, so I decided it was time to fly the white flag of war; after all, I didn't want to condemn the population of another city to his neutrality. Snagged the settler and decided to plant him right up in Ghandi's face at the base of Yosemite. Now I'll go and pillage some of his stuff and maybe take a city or two. I wasn't planning on going after Ghandi so early, but I couldn't resist stealing a free city.

Spoiler :

I'm sending my latest settler to city option 2 from the first post. I'd like to get those horses and maybe pop out a couple of horsemen. Once I have another eagle warrior or two in the north, I'll take out La Venta.

I got Iron Working but don't see any Iron nearby. I MIGHT try to push out an encampment to boost state workforce, or I may power through it. Since it will be a while before I have 2 horse tiles up and running, an encampment will be helpful, especially if Iron is scarce.

I was able to accumulate enough gold to buy a builder and a monument in the capital, probably going to buy another builder when I have enough. Pillaging Ghandi's stuff will help with that.

PLANS: Teach La Venta what we do to people trying to live their life in peace around here, FIND SOME IRON!!! Oh and maybe ruthlessly kill Ghandi.

 

[intellectsucks]

More progress:

Looted a diamond mine and a horse pasture from Ghandi, snagging some gold and faith. Only had one Eagle Warrior down there and La Venta was the priority so I sued for peace and then peaced out.

The La Venta war took far longer than it should have, mostly due to awkward terrain, but eventually the bards started singing the Rains of Castamere and La Venta was mine. I was also able to steal a builder from them; SCORE!!!

Still haven't found any iron, which is frustrating and will probably mean I won't get the boost to mining, since I want to start building knights very soon.

ANOTHER faith based city state is sort of in my way, tempting me to take them out too, but having to spend so much military effort on two wars that don't contribute to victory conditions is very frustratin.

Spoiler :

Next city will be settled to the left of the tea by the lake, as suggested.

Spoiler :

Ghandi is just to the right of here. His capital can be seen on the mini map, it's the more northern city.

Spoiler :

Tech tree

Spoiler :

Civics tree

Spoiler :

CHOICE: Go after Jerusalem with the nearby army that just killed La Venta? Or leave them alone to go after Ghandi?
If I go after Jerusalem, I might be able to get a religion, since they have a holy site. It also doesn't appear to be a terrible city and it will give my soldiers some additional XP to use against Ghandi.
HOWEVER
If I wait to go after Ghandi, he may start building walls, turning an easy war into a slog unless I can get a bettering ram/siege tower down there in short order, which seems unlikely.

PLANS: Do one of the above, find some iron, recon WAY more. Buld an encampment, probably in Tenotichlan, since I want knights pretty soon and don't likely have two horses in that time frame.

Let me know if you want to see anything in more detail, I won't be playing this save for a day or two.