My First Warlord Game

[Aceman101]

Heh,i've only actually beat the game once on warlord by score,this is a pretty awesome forum for me to just stumble across.

Welcome to the forums Hannibal fett. Your probably doing better than me, I havn't won on warlord yet, But i'm going OK .

 

[Aceman101]

That was just a stroke of bad luck I suppose.

Luck so bad that you miss 28\30???

The unit Aceman101 talked about is probably the industrial age artillery unit, since he also talked about tanks.

I said artillery bacause that's the name of the artillery. Catapults are stone age arty. Cannon's are middle age arty. Artillery are industrial age arty. And Radar artillery is the name of the modern age arty.

Artillery are very good. If your game makes it into the industrial age, it won't hurt to make a bunch. Catapult on the other hand, they miss a lot more often.
The key to both of these types of units is to bring a large stack of them.
2 catapult won't do you much good, you'd be better of using 2 archers instead.
a stack of 10 catapults will do a lot more for you.

Sorry, But I'd rather have a stack of 10 archers than 10 catapults that fail 3\4 of the time . But maybe if you built like 30 of them they would be allright. But they also cost you lot's of gold per turn just like all your other military units.

They beauty of artillery-type units is that they can remove hitpoints from enemy units without you losing any yourself. Your healthy offensive attacking units can then take down the red-lined enemy unit with only a very small chance of losing the battle.

That's true. Cannans and artillery are usefull but catapults... Well I suppose in large groups they are usefull, But I probably wouldn't spend all those shields on building catapults.

So are they worth it?
Well, yes, if you want to bring the win:loss ratio in your favor, they are most definitely worth it. Even the crappy catapults are!
The downside to using artillery is that they may slow down your advance. And this is not just because they only move 1 tile per turn. Even if you compare them with other single move units (swordsman/archers) they may still slow you down.
The reason is, when you are building catapults, you are not using your shields building offensive units.

And they can't pass jungles or mountains unless it's roaded. So that means your going to have to move your army with the catapults because your going to have to defend them. Unless you move one or two troops and the rest take the shortcut.

Well I thought a bit about it. And the really good thing about catapults are that when the enemy attacks a city and you have a catapult and a few defending troops in that stack the catapult will have a 100% chance of knocking a hit point off the enemy, when the enemy attacks the stack of units.

So I have now changed my strategies. I think every border city should have at least one or more catapults, But I still just don't think they are worth the turns, the military expences, the shields, the time to get to the enemy, and the chance of the enemy capturing a stack of 30 catapults.

You have changed my mind about catapults. I will also use one or two catapults with a stack of troops approaching enemy cities. But no more!.
Oh and nice report MAS .

 

[Aceman101]

Aceman,

It's unfortunate you started with so much mountainous terrain because I think that is hampering your 'worker management' skills. There are two EXCELLENT articles in the War Academy regarding workers you might want to read. I stumbled on them last week and have implemented a modified version of them. Once I realized 'food is power', 'food is never corrupt', and 'food can be stored in workers', my current Monarch game shot thru the roof. I have 4 times the amount of gold as the other 14 civs combined. I'm outproducing and outresearching everyone.

Just some friendly advice.

Thanks Delphi456, It will come in handy . And welcome the this thread.

 

[Aceman101]

I started to play a custom Earth world map I've downloaded today and I'm in Europe with Romans. Is 50 BC and I've already conquered most of Europe, Asia Minor, North Africa and large parts of Russia. And that with only about 10 legions and 2 catapults. Playing on Regent, but so fun. Took out French, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Carthage and Russia. Didn't even bothered to build wonders, only military units to protect the cities I've conquered, while my legions march ahead. Warmonger at its finest.

Well, good luck with your game . And welcome to this thread. And Is that a map of the world. I've been looking for a map like that for a while. Were is it in, Downloads?

 

[Aceman101]

I build just enough defenders to protect my cities, especially my frontier cities, and concentrate mostly on offensive units; this is a habit I've started mainly since playing PTW, though (in other words, since sword units became upadeable). Though I now play mostly Conquests, it is pretty much the same thing if not even more important. If the incoming enemy stack looks dangerous, just bring in a few more defenders from the interior (this is one of the most important reasons for having a good network of roads, and when available, railroads). Build big stacks of offensive units, and attack, attack, attack your enemy's cities with as many as you can in one turn. Also, defend your own cities by intercepting incoming attackers with your attackers or arty before your defenders have to deal with them. Be brutal.

I see what you mean by be brutal . More offensive units and more artillery . And welcome to this thread.

 

[Redrake]

Well, good luck with your game . And welcome to this thread. And Is that a map of the world. I've been looking for a map like that for a while. Were is it in, Downloads?

Yes, I looked for some map of Earth for some time. The one in the original game is horrible. Florida is larger than half of Europe and Hawaii islands larger than Spain. Who ever designed that should go back to his graffiti walls. Anyway, the map I'm using is called Marla Singer's World Map. However is an edited version with new locations. The other one with new rules, is somewhat annoying. Starting the Earth map with 31 civ might sound fun, but I only started with 20.

 

[Aceman101]

Yes, I looked for some map of Earth for some time. The one in the original game is horrible. Florida is larger than half of Europe and Hawaii islands larger than Spain. Who ever designed that should go back to his graffiti walls. Anyway, the map I'm using is called Marla Singer's World Map. However is an edited version with new locations. The other one with new rules, is somewhat annoying. Starting the Earth map with 31 civ might sound fun, but I only started with 20.

Thanks for that . I've been looking for a map of the world for a while but i didn't know they had them in this site.

 

[Aceman101]

I've played another couple of turns...

Spoiler :

These are my main core cities. There are a few more to the left.

Spoiler :

These are the cities I have captured off the Aztecs (I conquered them now ).

Spoiler :

This is my budget.

Spoiler :

And this is my military. Next I am thinking of conquering the Japanese (They are the second strongest). I am the strongest at 1100 points . Japan has 1000 points.

And here is my savegame...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/107056/Iroquois_Warlords_Level_.SAV


Civs that are conquered: Egypt and the Aztecs.

 

[Mirc]

Wow, one thing I noticed: you do not do the mistake to place your cities too far one from another. Actually I haven't seen cities placed so tight in a long time. Most of them are CxC!

 

[Aabraxan]

I haven't looked at the save, but I see a couple of things in the screenshots that I'd like to comment on:

First, from what I can tell, city placement in your core isn't bad. The usual mistake, and one I certainly made, is to place cities too far apart. The reason I say "from what I can tell," is that you call that area your core, but I don't see your capitol. Where is it?

Second, most of your tiles are improved. Good work. But there are still some core hills that need to be mined and railed.

Third, I can't tell from the colors where Japan is, but I'd say get out and capture that continent. If Japan is on your continent great. Otherwise, I'd say worry about them later. The first step is continental domination. And with 369 units, you ought to be able to do some damage. How many workers do you have? How many cities? Where are the Japanese?

Fourth, you're paying 249 gpt in maintenance. What all are you building in your cities?

From the screens (and I repeat that I have not looked at your save), it looks like you're ready to go a-warring. Good luck.

 

[Mirc]

@Aabraxan: cities in the core are too far apart, but look at cities that are not in the core:

Spoiler :

Almost all are placed CxC!

 

[Aabraxan]

@Aabraxan: cities in the core are too far apart . . .

They're probably further apart than I would put them, but most of them are at CxxxC. Look at Niagara Falls (usually the second Iro city founded) and Centralia. They're at CxxC. Whatever is SE from Niagara Falls is at CxxxC. For a Warlord level game, that's OK. What I do not see, and this is just as important, is anything at CxxxxxC, where tiles are necessarily wasted through the whole game.

That said, I see what you mean about the non-core. What I'm not sure about is whether you're saying that his CxC is good or bad.

 

[Delphi456]

Aceman -

I looked at your save and here are some of the things I've found:

Overall, I think your biggest weakness is a lack of appreciation for what good empire management can do for you.

1. You have furs between your capital and Owego that NO CITY can get to. Are you aware of that? Do you realized what this glaring ommission has cost you over the past 6000 years?

2. Why are you building wealth in low corruption cities like Oka and Gandasetaigon, yet you are building infantry in highly corrupt towns. Build something useful in the low corruption towns.

3. I'm not sure about this, but I think if you irrigate some grasslands (at St. Regis and elsewhere), you will produce enough food to mine the mountains.

4. There is unclaimed saltpeter next to New Gewauga. I'm assuming you were trading for saltpeter at some point because you've got cav.



As for Military comments:

1. Quit building Infantry. You should have been building cav all this time.

2. Your navy is wasting away guarding your perimeter. With railroads around your perimeter, you can protect yourself with your artillery.

3. Conquer your own continent first, then worry about building a navy (which certainly doesn't need to be as large as yours is).

4. Use your gobs of artillery to smash that Persian city in the south. Then form a military alliance with England against Persia (Don't fight alone!)

5. I tend to favor military alliances over mutual protection pacts. But, to each his own...


There's a lot more I could comment on, but I won't because YOU need to take a serious look at ALL your cities and see if they are being used efficiently. My suggestion for your next game is to play small/pangea (so you won't be distracted by navy units) and focus on QUALITY over QUANTITY.

Keep posting those saves.

 

[CommandoBob]

As I looked at the screen shots I saw one mistake that I have made time and time again. Too much money.

In real life, a lot of cash is a good thing.

In Civ, well, it is not.

Cash in Civ is good for three things:

• Rushing builds
• Upgrading units
• Research

Rushing builds and upgrading units are pretty obvious. Research is not.

In a nutshell, if you have a lot of gold, it is better to research as hard and fast as you can and use your treasury to cover the difference.

For example, say you have 1000 gold in the bank, researching Gunpowder at 50% and +0 gpt, due in 10 turns. Not bad.
However, if researching at 90% gave you Gunpowder (and thus Muskets) in 4 turns at -150 gpt, wouldn't you be willing to do that to get the tech sooner? At the end of 4 turns your treasury is at 400 gold, but you have a new tech to use. And still some money for a few upgrades.

I hate to waste money, but here you are trading money for turns and that is usually always a good idea.

Just something to consider.

 

[MAS]

In real life, a lot of cash is a good thing.

In Civ, well, it is not.

Actually, I real life, it is the same.
If you have a real large bank account, it would be wise to invest it instead.

But I agree with the rest.
If you have large surplus of a resource, it is an indicator you are not spending enough. This is true for just about any strategy game.

At the late game, you could consider keeping 1000 gold for the maximum benefit of the Wall Street small wonder. Though it is usually not worth the shields investment to get that small wonder, unless you are a builder.

 

[Aceman101]

Because I don't like double posting I'll just put all the coments in one post .

I haven't looked at the save, but I see a couple of things in the screenshots that I'd like to comment on:

First, from what I can tell, city placement in your core isn't bad. The usual mistake, and one I certainly made, is to place cities too far apart. The reason I say "from what I can tell," is that you call that area your core, but I don't see your capitol. Where is it?

Sorry, forgot about the capital, but here it is...

Spoiler :

The circled city is my capital .

Second, most of your tiles are improved. Good work. But there are still some core hills that need to be mined and railed.

Yes - I'll just keep roading, railing, mining or irrigating .

Third, I can't tell from the colors where Japan is, but I'd say get out and capture that continent. If Japan is on your continent great. Otherwise, I'd say worry about them later. The first step is continental domination. And with 369 units, you ought to be able to do some damage. How many workers do you have?

About 30.

How many cities?

Excactly 70.

Where are the Japanese?

Just to make it easier I've uploaded the world map...

Spoiler :

Japan Is red, England is orange, Persia is aqua blue, Germany is dark blue, America is light blue, Greece is light green. I don't know if you will see this but at the top of the map were Japan is there's a slightly light redder colour, that's Rome. Rome is above Japan.

Fourth, you're paying 249 gpt in maintenance. What all are you building in your cities?

Cathedral's and collsoeums (For the unhappy city's only). Courthouses and police stations (For the corrupt city's). Library's and Universities (For faster research). Marketplaces and banks (For happiness and commerce, and banks to build the wall street). Factories and power plant's (For more shields per turn for the city that builds them). Barracks (For vet troops).
I think I covered enough now .

From the screens (and I repeat that I have not looked at your save), it looks like you're ready to go a-warring. Good luck.

Thank You Aabraxan! .

@Aabraxan: cities in the core are too far apart, but look at cities that are not in the core:

Spoiler :

Almost all are placed CxC!

I thought the core cities were placed just right but the other cities were way too close .

They're probably further apart than I would put them, but most of them are at CxxxC. Look at Niagara Falls (usually the second Iro city founded) and Centralia. They're at CxxC. Whatever is SE from Niagara Falls is at CxxxC. For a Warlord level game, that's OK. What I do not see, and this is just as important, is anything at CxxxxxC, where tiles are necessarily wasted through the whole game.

So how many tiles apart should I put my cities?

Aceman -

I looked at your save and here are some of the things I've found:

Overall, I think your biggest weakness is a lack of appreciation for what good empire management can do for you.

1. You have furs between your capital and Owego that NO CITY can get to. Are you aware of that? Do you realized what this glaring ommission has cost you over the past 6000 years?

Yes I realize this but like you said no city can get to it. So the only option is to build a city on it. But I would not prefer to build a city on it because I don't think it's a good idea to build cities in the middle of the tundra if my borders are already there. Because I can't irrigate tundra cities It won't grow past size one or two and it's shield production will suck! No offence but I had to explain it like it is.

2. Why are you building wealth in low corruption cities like Oka and Gandasetaigon, yet you are building infantry in highly corrupt towns. Build something useful in the low corruption towns.

Well the low corrupt towns like Oka and Gaindasetaigon don't produce many shields per turn. And the high corrupt towns on the western side of the map
(If those are the towns you mean) have been captured from the Aztecs just a few turns ago and I'm still deciding what to switch production to. But production will be switched .

3. I'm not sure about this, but I think if you irrigate some grasslands (at St. Regis and elsewhere), you will produce enough food to mine the mountains.

I'm not irrigating more shields at St. Regis because I'm not building a hospital and growing past size 12. But at at those other towns with not much food, I'll see what i can do .

4. There is unclaimed saltpeter next to New Gewauga. I'm assuming you were trading for saltpeter at some point because you've got cav.

Yes - I did have that saltpeter connected a few turns ago but when the Aztecs were still alive they pillaged the road connecting it. I'll fix that up soon.

As for Military comments:

1. Quit building Infantry. You should have been building cav all this time.

I was, untill the Aztecs pillaged the road connecting saltpeter (as i said above). But when i get the road connected again I'll build more cav's. But I won't stop building infantry because infantry have the same offence, and even better defence values than the cav. But I do understand that the cav has 3 movement points and the infantry only has one but that doesn't mean i'll completely stop building infantry.

2. Your navy is wasting away guarding your perimeter. With railroads around your perimeter, you can protect yourself with your artillery.

I admit I have an obsession with building a big navy but I'm going to need it when the jap's come.

3. Conquer your own continent first, then worry about building a navy (which certainly doesn't need to be as large as yours is).

Yes - I should take my own continent first. But the jap's are getting really close with me on the scorboard and the game is not far from ending.

4. Use your gobs of artillery to smash that Persian city in the south. Then form a military alliance with England against Persia (Don't fight alone!)

That persian city will be easy to capture, but if I declare on Persia that means I'm gonna have to take 'em down, because I don't want a half-finished war.

5. I tend to favor military alliances over mutual protection pacts. But, to each his own...

I don't like MPP myself, but if there's a good deal in it, I'll take it.

There's a lot more I could comment on, but I won't because YOU need to take a serious look at ALL your cities and see if they are being used efficiently. My suggestion for your next game is to play small/pangea (so you won't be distracted by navy units) and focus on QUALITY over QUANTITY.

NO Please , I HATE smal or pangea maps.

Keep posting those saves.

I will try my best to save some games but I only get to play civ 3 about 5-6 hours a week . And thank you Delphi456 for the advice .

As I looked at the screen shots I saw one mistake that I have made time and time again. Too much money.

In real life, a lot of cash is a good thing.

In Civ, well, it is not.

Cash in Civ is good for three things:

• Rushing builds
• Upgrading units
• Research

Well I lost A LOT of cash. I had about 4000 gold and then two gpt deals ended. One for 197 gpt and the other for 107 gpt. A few turns later I had -150 gpt. Somehow I got my budget back again, but seriously it isn't that bad to have a bit of gold is it? Because if I get bellow 1000 gold my interest rates from the wall street will drop. And that would make things really hard.

In a nutshell, if you have a lot of gold, it is better to research as hard and fast as you can and use your treasury to cover the difference.

For example, say you have 1000 gold in the bank, researching Gunpowder at 50% and +0 gpt, due in 10 turns. Not bad.
However, if researching at 90% gave you Gunpowder (and thus Muskets) in 4 turns at -150 gpt, wouldn't you be willing to do that to get the tech sooner? At the end of 4 turns your treasury is at 400 gold, but you have a new tech to use. And still some money for a few upgrades.

Yes - I would like to do something like that but I can't afford it now. I don't want my treasury to get bellow 1000 gold. But when i got, say, 5000 gold I'll hurry science up. And if you are the first to research a tech you will get profit's by selling it for gpt deals.

I hate to waste money, but here you are trading money for turns and that is usually always a good idea.

Just something to consider.

Yes, good point. And thanks for the advice CommandoBob! .

 

[Mirc]

Well, I'm in a hurry, so I can't really give good advice, but I noticed this unimportant thing:

Sorry, forgot about the capital, but here it is...

Spoiler :

The circled city is my capital .

No need to circle it. The capital always has a star near its name.

 

[Aceman101]

Actually, I real life, it is the same.
If you have a real large bank account, it would be wise to invest it instead.

But I agree with the rest.
If you have large surplus of a resource, it is an indicator you are not spending enough. This is true for just about any strategy game.

At the late game, you could consider keeping 1000 gold for the maximum benefit of the Wall Street small wonder. Though it is usually not worth the shields investment to get that small wonder.

I think it's worth it for +50 gpt. Because getting +50 gpt for the rest of the game would add up to quite a bit of gold.

 

[Aceman101]

Well, I'm in a hurry, so I can't really give good advice, but I noticed this unimportant thing:



No need to circle it. The capital always has a star near its name.

Yeah, i knew that. But maybe it would be a help for some half-blind people .

 

[MAS]

How many workers do you have?

About 30.

How many cities?

Excactly 70.

What about trying for 140 workers for 70 cities next time?

I think it's worth it for +50 gpt. Because getting +50 gpt for the rest of the game would add up to quite a bit of gold.

How many turns are left when you build Wall street?