My opening starts - why do these stink?

[Sentinali]

I had alot of disagreement with my post, which is fine. However the main beef was that they could suport 20 cities fine and I said 10-15. Note; these numbers are approximations - with a flat piece of large continent (ie; not a "strip), this could easily happen, however how often do you get that kind of terrain.

I'm not say 30-40 cities is impossible, just not the best strategy early.

I think in Civ 3 we have to look to expand steadily, not all at once and then grow. A more holistic approach is necessary.

Just my opinion.

Sent

 

[jc011]

i always start out on a small crappy island with so many stinking jungle for me to clear out. and by the time i fill my island and look for others, they have already been all occupied. maybe i should play in pangea mode.

 

[Poochface]

Yeah, I tend to get surrounded by jungles too and frankly, jungles suck.

My current game is in pangea mode and I like it a lot. I like having my enemy civs right next to mine so I can screw 'em when I need to! Well, heoretically anyway because my "brilliant" plans tend to fail horribly half the time.

 

[Borealis]

Pangea mode does rock, but you'd better be prepared to encounter enemy AIs fairly soon if your world size isn't massive. Also, you might get stuck like the previous poster right above a huuge swathe of jungle... that happens with me sometimes, and it's really annoying, especially when the AI tries to run through your borders and build really tiny cities in the middle of all that jungle when it doesn't have any other space.

I suppose I could clear the jungle but I don't have enough free workers to make that worthwile nor enough extra production to build the workers... no more fun 'cosmetic terraforming' to make the land look all pretty like in SMAC.

 

[gorilladf]

I had the same thing happen to me last night, that the original poster (bugbie I think) had. If you are the americans, and the aztecs are your neighbor, you are in a world of hurt! None of these strategies will work.

They spank you bad!

 

[dedmonds]

Originally posted by gorilladf
I had the same thing happen to me last night, that the original poster (bugbie I think) had. If you are the americans, and the aztecs are your neighbor, you are in a world of hurt! None of these strategies will work.

They spank you bad!

That would make Americans pretty hard to play, since one of their neighbors will almost always be the Aztecs....

I've started out next to the Aztecs and used the approach I outlined in my earlier post and done just fine.

 

[ironfang]

Wow. I love all these strategies. But I have to admit, there are a few strategies in here that are really similar, and I have found (by experience) that they work, and my only successfull game is modelled after them.

You need to expand fast. Especially in a HUGE Pangea world. If your one of those people who love to build a very sophistacated, peacefull civ do the following;

- Set the world to small or average
- Set the world to Continents
- Live on an island with noone else
- Be a Scientific civ.

I am playing the Americans (on warlord mind you) on a HUGE Pangea world with 15 other civs. I played this setup a dozen times before I figured out how to survive. So here is what I have done (as the americans).

1. Expand.
2. Explore.
3. Dont worry about city improvements besides temples (until you have enough territory between you and the next civ).
4. Build up your military along side your empire.
5. Dont stop expanding until you find the edges of neighboring civs.
6. Keep building up military.

I cant prove this but here is my theory based on getting my arse handed to me a number of times.

Listen to your Military Advisor. Make sure the you have as many Units as you can support. I believe the other civs also use this advisor to compare their civs to you. A neighboring militaristic... or even a less advanced (envious) civ, will use this when deciding to go to war with you. I believe if they see their military advisor telling them they have a military larger than yours, chances are they will attack for nothing more than the fact you are weak. So keep pace with your Military Advisor.

Also, I dont think the AI understands (correct me if I am wrong) Force Ratio (like 1 Cavalry = 3 Horsement). So even if you ARE technically advanced, and your military units are much stronger, the AI still compares NUMBERS when deciding if they can over power you. Dont quit your military maintainance.

I have noticed two different trends on this board. 1.) The AI crushes me after I build up my empire.
2.) The AI is unwilling to go to war.
The reason I believe these two are the norm is because the 1.) people try and make an awesome infrastructure with a small military, and 2.) people build up respectable militaries. I believe tha AI will only be willing to go to war if it believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is going to win.

TRY to get at least 2 of your borders against the ocean. It wont be until later in the game that the AI invests in D-Day style invasions. This will give you time to build your military in a lopsided manner towards your other two borders. If you find your self surrounded, try and conquer your way towards the nearest large body of water.

This is what I have done so far, and so far it has worked. If anyone sees any logic errors, please let me know.

ironfang

 

[Begbie]

Starting out as Americans on Huge Earth/Regent/15 Civs (starting in the right spot for Americans), and after taking a lot of your advice:

1) I build rapidly until the middle of the North American contintent. This gave me about 8-10 cities. I'm now planning to spread into eastern Canada for 3-4 more. 4 of my cities are 6 or so, with the others being 1 or 2.

2) I rush built temples and libraries to focus on culture.

At this point (about 270AD), the neighboring sims (Russia on the pacific, Aztecs in Mexico) seem to be more powerful (Aztech has a bunch of those funny warriors running around), but they don't attack me. They are all polite and like to trade tech without asking me for a ton of stuff.

Now that I have temple and library in most of my cities, should I

a) assume that this strat is working and just blow out my culture, or

b) invest heavily in military improvements to start to conquer Russia to the west and the Aztecs

Any ideas?

Thanks for the great strats.

 

[gorilladf]

Nice ideas ironfang. I hope to try them out soon. Your absolutely right, I try to build my cultural civ with a small army. I will change that real fast.


BegBie: Don't go near the aztecs for war!!!! Not until you get into the next age, with much better military units. During the first age, they are VERY powerful.

 

[ironfang]

Bogie, build your military, but dont attack unless you are out of the ancient age. Ancient cultures such as Persians, Aztecs, Zulus will whoop American tale during Ancient times.

However, like I mentioned above, the AI compares numbers, so dont let your numbers slip or the AI will consider you weak, and try to conquor you. Make sure your Military advisor (keystroke F3) says you have as many units as you can support.

ironfang

 

[Sarcastro]

Originally posted by dedmonds


Yeah, but isn't going to war over strategic resources the *coolest* *thing* *ever*?

Let me put another check mark in this column.

Originally posted by ironfang
Bogie, build your military, but dont attack unless you are out of the ancient age. Ancient cultures such as Persians, Aztecs, Zulus will whoop American tale during Ancient times.

Boy, have I found that out the hard way.

 

[Agni Neres]

HI everyone,

Glad to have found a thread for bad starts...

My first try with civ3....chieftain romans (the quick start)....planning on just learning the interface and screwing around.....

Nothing but hills, jungle, and desert! No rivers or lakes made for no irrigation! Adding insult to injury, all those hills...not one darn iron deposit! So much for a Legion

You can guess the result.

How humbling for a guy who last month landed a Deity Spaceship in the early 1900's

Agni

 

[Corrado]

Personally, the opening strategy I used for Civ 2 is still paying off for Civ 3. I play the Romans on Monarch, and as soon as I start my first city, go to research Bronze Working.

City #1 (Rome): 2 Warriors, Settler, 2 Warriors, Settler, 2 Spearmen, Worker, Wonder (usually eventually becoming the Great Library).

City #2 (Veii): 2 Warriors, Settler, Spearman, Settler, Spearman, Temple, Worker, Wonder.

All other cities: Spearman, Settler, Spearman, Settler, Temple, Worker, Wonder/Military Units depending.

The important thing to me here is *efficiency*- the AI has a production bonus, so you have to use your units near perfectly to keep up. With the standard terrain (two areas of grassland with a production point), you can get out two workers, then spring a settler on the *same* turn as you hit 3 pop- no waiting for the population to hit 3 to spring, no making entertainers to keep the city in line while waiting for production to finish. Needless to say, if you start with a production or food bonus, you should modify the number of warriors you're throwing out.

This way, I've 6 warriors running around to explore (thus giving me a good idea of the lay of the land, hitting the goodie huts, and running into the other civs), a decent defense in each city, and a steady (if not explosive) growth rate. The only thing that suffers is culture, but getting Wonders out early tends to make up for that in the long run.