[NFP] My review of the new Secret Societies game mode.

[Vandlys]

Sorry to say I just skimmed your post, but actually stopped seriously reading at "unbiased". As soon as you form an opinion it is biased.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Meanwhile the AI also has no clue how to use these new units. They have huge amounts of them just wandering around, but never activate them. It's completely lopsided mechanic in the players favor.

Yes, that my experience as well. The most damage they do with them is if a voidsinger civ you are not at war with blocks the tiles around cities in your empire for Workers and Military Pioneers, preventing you from building improvements and railroads.

 

[Sostratus]

The voidsingers are basically giving you +50% value from faith with level 2. IMO it's just way too big of a bonus given how accessible faith is that early. I think toning it down to like 10/10/10 would be more appropriate.
Especially paired with say, ethiopia...

 

[AvianBritish]

Play style is a bias in itself.

You know, I see this phrase, "unbiased review", a lot these days. It's all over YouTube, for instance. It doesn't make any sense. Of course, you have biases. Everyone does. What is "unbiased review" even supposed to mean?!

Apologies... by 'unbiased' I ment that I stayed away from the forums, reddit and all other forms of where people talked about the societies once they were released, so my opinions were formed over the course of 4 days not influenced by others.
I am not sure what other word I could of used to reflect that, my apologies.

 

[Uberfrog]

Sorry to say I just skimmed your post, but actually stopped seriously reading at "unbiased". As soon as you form an opinion it is biased.

This isn’t true: biased is not synonymous with subjective.

Bias is prejudice, having unfairly made up your mind about something before judging it on its own merits.

All opinions are subjective, but not all opinions are biased.

 

[Breadsmith]

I want to play Sanguine Bull Moose Teddy. Just for the yeilds from the castles.

 

[Danthor]

The vampires are completely OP. After a few kills they turn into immortal killing machines who can easily replenish their HP by pillaging :O

 

[Liegence]

Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who had this experience with the Sanguine Pact.

My unbiased opinion: Is the new game mode balanced? No. Is it fun? Yes.

 

[Kwami]

The voidsingers are basically giving you +50% value from faith with level 2. IMO it's just way too big of a bonus given how accessible faith is that early. I think toning it down to like 10/10/10 would be more appropriate.
Especially paired with say, ethiopia...

But again, you don't get that bonus until the medieval era. So, it's not helping you get luxury techs, Political Philosophy, early strategics, early units, district unlocks. It comes so late!

And it's 20% of Faith. So, sure, if you're rocking 500 Faith per turn because you're Ethiopia or Gandhi, then maybe it's a big deal. But more likely, you'll be in the 0-200 Faith range. That gets you 20-40 Science and Culture per turn. Nice, but hardly game breaking. The Gold doesn't even matter.

I don't think that's any stronger than some of the bonuses from the other societies. Seems like all four are rather powerful in the right situations. Voidsingers is pretty bad if you aren't playing a Faith-heavy game.

 

[Pietato]

I think the map size and difficulty also play a large part. The Vampires suffer on huge maps because they are very slow, and deity means they get quite hurt early.

Oh and finding AI Russia at turn 100 (deity huge contients with islands) with 200 science and 300 cultire was a shock. Voidsingers give absolutely bonkers AI yields.

I don't think that's any stronger than some of the bonuses from the other societies. Seems like all four are rather powerful in the right situations. Voidsingers is pretty bad if you aren't playing a Faith-heavy game.

The faith from the obelisks alone will give you a monumentality game.

 

[Kwami]

The faith from the obelisks alone will give you a monumentality game.

Not really, though. It's only 4 Faith per city. In a typical game, you'll probably have 8-12 cities. So, that's only 32-40 Faith. But you're only getting that Faith after you settle your cities and build your Obelisks. The best part of monumentality is getting the Settles with Faith, but you won't have very much Faith to do that unless you're already playing a Faith-heavy game with Holy Sites or a lucky Earth Goddess start or Russia or something. Most of the time, the Obelisks aren't enough to get you anywhere.

 

[tedhebert]

The faith from the obelisks alone will give you a monumentality game.

yes it's what I experienced too in my curent game, my first of Ethiopia pack. Playing Ethiopia huge map immortal, with voidsingers. cheesed it a little for fun by going New world age, abundant ressources and legendary start ;-) Want to go Culture victory because I've played a few RV games lately, and it's a slog on huge maps...

churches + obelisk gave me an immediate monumentality golden age, which I then levered into 7 settler faith buys... Really really strong.

Still playing that game as I have very little time these days... got Oracle, Missed out on Religious settlement so took Earth Goddess, Also missed out on choral music, but took Reliquaries, Gurdwara, World Church and Holy order... I'm at turn 100 and already producing aroud 150 faith per turn, and Council of ministers + 2nd promotion of voidsingers are already getting me something like 80 science and 95 culture per turn, with only 1 campus and 1 theater square conscructed. I'm extremely in advance of what my normal games have always been.

As someone else asked lately; Are SS balanced ? NO. Are they fun ? VERY ;-)

Not really, though. It's only 4 Faith per city. In a typical game, you'll probably have 8-12 cities. So, that's only 32-40 Faith. But you're only getting that Faith after you settle your cities and build your Obelisks. The best part of monumentality is getting the Settles with Faith, but you won't have very much Faith to do that unless you're already playing a Faith-heavy game with Holy Sites or a lucky Earth Goddess start or Russia or something. Most of the time, the Obelisks aren't enough to get you anywhere.

no not alone you're right. But if you're going voidsinger, my feeling is that you'll have chosen a civ that has faith help. And that first golden age monumentality is totally awesome. In my case, I got it with ONLY my capital constructed. yes, i had Ethiopia and constructed some churches too, and yes I got Earth Goddess and a perfect starting location for it. But I think these are not the only reasons I got the golden age.

 

[Kwami]

no not alone you're right. But if you're going voidsinger, my feeling is that you'll have chosen a civ that has faith help. And that first golden age monumentality is totally awesome. In my case, I got it with ONLY my capital constructed. yes, i had Ethiopia and constructed some churches too, and yes I got Earth Goddess and a perfect starting location for it. But I think these are not the only reasons I got the golden age.

OK, yeah, sure. If you play a Faith-heavy leader with an early unique improvement and you get Earth goddess and you roll a really great start (in your case, a legendary start with abundant resources and extra hills), then sure, that first monumentality golden age is great.

But that's not because of the Voidsingers. As you said, you only had one city, which means one Obelisk at most. So, 4 Faith. I'm pretty sure that the 4 Faith didn't really matter at all.

 

[acluewithout]

Does anyone else find the way you “discover” Societies is incredibly tedious?

You just keep spamming whatever thing is the ridiculous trigger for the particular society you want. Then up jumps the screen with the scroll, stopping the gameplay. And you have to do it three more times for the other societies.

Might be better if the selection screen popped up more like an Emergency or Pantheon, ie from the side.

Other than that, yes, the Societies are very fun. They’re more like cultural traits than anything to do with societies, secret or otherwise. But the abilities are very fun, and I like being able to take my Civ is different directions.

 

[Vandlys]

This isn’t true: biased is not synonymous with subjective.

Bias is prejudice, having unfairly made up your mind about something before judging it on its own merits.

All opinions are subjective, but not all opinions are biased.

Not exclusively. Bias can also exist without prejudice. I agree mostly bias is used to mean "unreasonable" or "without critical thought", but not necessarly.

So yeah, maybe I should have not been so careless to use that word, but instead have said "It's hard to deliver an opinion without bias".

 

[Francel]

<a

Personally think this pack is way better than the first, and I like it a lot. Secret societies are a fun mechanic. I guess it's up to the player to not abuse them. Here is the ley line next to my capital. You can see some others nearby. By the way, Bull Moose Teddy rocks!

 

[The Civs 6]

Does anyone else find the way you “discover” Societies is incredibly tedious?

You just keep spamming whatever thing is the ridiculous trigger for the particular society you want. Then up jumps the screen with the scroll, stopping the gameplay. And you have to do it three more times for the other societies.

Might be better if the selection screen popped up more like an Emergency or Pantheon, ie from the side.

Other than that, yes, the Societies are very fun. They’re more like cultural traits than anything to do with societies, secret or otherwise. But the abilities are very fun, and I like being able to take my Civ is different directions.

More generally I find the "initiation" screens and flavoring to be beyond trite (but not self-aware enough to be funny). With that said they created a good game mechanic that makes for perhaps one or two worthwhile play-throughs. On some level it seems like just another complex game mechanic that I can fiddle with as a human player to assert my dominance over AI's. But there some undeniable pleasure I get from spamming cultists to mess with my rivals.

 

[Sostratus]

I almost feel like SS initiation should only come in the Middle Ages or so.

But again, you don't get that bonus until the medieval era. So, it's not helping you get luxury techs, Political Philosophy, early strategics, early units, district unlocks. It comes so late!

And it's 20% of Faith. So, sure, if you're rocking 500 Faith per turn because you're Ethiopia or Gandhi, then maybe it's a big deal. But more likely, you'll be in the 0-200 Faith range. That gets you 20-40 Science and Culture per turn. Nice, but hardly game breaking. The Gold doesn't even matter.

I don't think that's any stronger than some of the bonuses from the other societies. Seems like all four are rather powerful in the right situations. Voidsingers is pretty bad if you aren't playing a Faith-heavy game.

It’s 20% of faith in science AND 20% in culture AND 20% in gold. Since gold is usually worth half I call it an even 50%.
Of course you need to build around it, but every choice requires that to a degree. It’s just that making 100 faith per turn in the Middle Ages confers 60 extra yield on you. The medieval era isn’t very far into the game either- and literally nothing precludes you from building campuses and theaters next to your holy sites.
The middles ages is also when you get Simultaneum and theocracy.
Of course void doesn’t offer anything else besides cultists at that point; but it’s quite front loaded.

 

[Furycrab]

Hermetic Order is very weak until industrial era. IF you get a lot of great people and IF you have good amount of lea lines in your empire you will get crazy yields beginning from industrial era. But its too late. In my game it seemed that Ley Lines are mostly found in desert, tundra and snow.

This sorta plays into the idea that you are perhaps expanding into "worthless" areas of the world.

Personally I just wish it was closer to being guaranteed to find them on the first Natural Wonder being discovered. I feel like you can make a great strategy out of playing them, but if you can't reasonably find them before you send out your first 1-2 settlers, you are perhaps in small amounts of trouble.

They are sorta next on my list of things I want to try, perhaps with a heavy GPP strategy civ like Sweden or Brazil.

On a side note.

Vampires are amazing/disgusting with the right idea behind them. Playing them as the Zulu, and I abused the Early Corps/Armies, which totally works for setting their base strength that much higher. After you've sorta eaten 10+ worth of units or barbs, they become these tanks that can heal off of pillaging anything.

 

[Kwami]

I almost feel like SS initiation should only come in the Middle Ages or so.

It’s 20% of faith in science AND 20% in culture AND 20% in gold. Since gold is usually worth half I call it an even 50%.
Of course you need to build around it, but every choice requires that to a degree. It’s just that making 100 faith per turn in the Middle Ages confers 60 extra yield on you. The medieval era isn’t very far into the game either- and literally nothing precludes you from building campuses and theaters next to your holy sites.
The middles ages is also when you get Simultaneum and theocracy.
Of course void doesn’t offer anything else besides cultists at that point; but it’s quite front loaded.

Well, right, but 20% of 100 Faith is 20 Science/Culture/Gold. Again, that's pretty nice, but it's not any more broken than the other societies. And in most cases, you have to invest a fair bit to get 100 Faith at that point. It's not free (for most leaders!).