My take on stuff

[Arakhor]

I'd have thought that half a dozen effects would be enough, yes.

If you're concerned about there not being enough diplomatic bonuses in the game without Language as a civic, DH, it might be an idea to slightly increase the pre-existing bonuses to compensate.

 

[Toffer90]

I'd have thought that half a dozen effects would be enough, yes.

If you're concerned about there not being enough diplomatic bonuses in the game without Language as a civic, DH, it might be an idea to slightly increase the pre-existing bonuses to compensate.

Since the language civics are no brainers I suggest moving their purpose elsewhere and remove those civics.
Language isn't really something controlled much by government, it evolves on it's own. There are already nationalism and facism civics that can emulate a nation reluctant to accept world language and such.

I'll try to limit the number of effects in civics the best I can.

 

[Arakhor]

That's exactly what I have been saying.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is exactly what we have all been saying but there is no other way of giving the diplomatic bonus.

 

[Arakhor]

That's why I suggested either increasing other diplomatic bonuses (such as between monarchies or between those with divine cults etc.) or including the Python jazz on auto-buildings, so that it doesn't matter if the AI can't see it or not.

 

[Faustmouse]

It is exactly what we have all been saying but there is no other way of giving the diplomatic bonus.

You can have an event that gives you +1 relations to all leaders, and that is always triggered as soon as you research the new language tech. Is the problem here that you want to only boost relations if the other leader has the same "language level"? I THINK you can also code that in XML that the other leader(s) need to know tech X to be affected.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem is that the python does not know how much to change the attitude. Which is why it keeps adding one and then seeing if the attitude has changed. So that is two calls to the dll until the attitude changes which, apparently, can be quite a lot, as each attitude range is different in sixe.

The event uses the same python.

 

[olduser]

Well, if it was an auto-building, which C2C has in spades, then it shouldn't matter if the AI don't know about it, as it would happen anyway given a specific tech gain, era transition or what-have-you.

It always matters because there are already to much things the AI can't see.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The problem is that the python does not know how much to change the attitude. Which is why it keeps adding one and then seeing if the attitude has changed. So that is two calls to the dll until the attitude changes which, apparently, can be quite a lot, as each attitude range is different in sixe.

The event uses the same python.

Thanks for the explanation of the mechanics DH. This is some of the things that have been missing in previous versions and maybe discussions too imo.

I know having this info would change how and when I would make adjustments to the Civic "definitions". If I thought I had a good idea but found out that it was doubling, tripling or more the calculations needed to make it function then I'd have to let that idea go or else try to find out how to lessen it's processing impact.

Have you ever had anarchy when switching between closed borders and open borders, well I haven't.

Can't say one way or the other because this is one of the Civics that I stay at the Default until Open is available, then switch to Open and Never Use any of the others. The rest of the Border Civics For Me are a waste. It's a category that could be eliminated and I would not miss it. But it's been used, like way too many others, as a "maint./gold/ club" to beat down prosperity, health, and expansion.

JosEPh

 

[Toffer90]

Can't say one way or the other because this is one of the Civics that I stay at the Default until Open is available, then switch to Open and Never Use any of the others. The rest of the Border Civics For Me are a waste. It's a category that could be eliminated and I would not miss it. But it's been used, like way too many others, as a "maint./gold/ club" to beat down prosperity, health, and expansion.

JosEPh

Yes, 99% of the time I too skip closed border and use open border instead, Closed border, as well as the others (except "No Borders"), should be viable options imo, but I haven't put much thoughts into it yet.

 

[Yudishtira]

Closed Borders is a miracle panacea for crime. I imagine it's good for disease likewise. If you're losing a lot of gold etc. to crime, it's much quicker and more convenient than switching all your cities to building gallows or guards. It has a lot of downsides, true, but it is possible to live with them, and almost certainly worth it sometimes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It always matters because there are already to much things the AI can't see.

Except in this case it does not matter because the AI should be changing as soon as it gets the correct tech. Not doing so is an error. It increases your research and relations with others and I think costs no time but I may be wrong on the last. If there were turns of anarchy then that would be the only reason to delay the change.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yes, 99% of the time I too skip closed border and use open border instead, Closed border, as well as the others (except "No Borders"), should be viable options imo, but I haven't put much thoughts into it yet.

If you play on deity, you need too switch them sometimes to get crime and city growth under control.

 

[Toffer90]

If you play on deity, you need too switch them sometimes to get crime and city growth under control.

True that, but I still think the border civics needs a reevaluation.

 

[Toffer90]

v0.5.5
A change of direction, not sure where yet. Biggest change in anarchism.

 

[Rwn]

I've started testing the new civics, I only have a small gripe with it: the number of free military units in the early civics (0 or 1) is really too low. You can't really afford to lose money so early (since you have a big -%, meaning that to have just +1 or +2 you have to decrease your research to maybe 50%), so it effectively prevents you from building any military unit, either clubman to fight Neanderthalians, wanderer to explore or chaser to hunt animals, until you have Tribal Warfare (which allows 30). You should allow maybe 5-10 free military units for Militia and/or Banditry civics...

 

[Toffer90]

I've started testing the new civics, I only have a small gripe with it: the number of free military units in the early civics (0 or 1) is really too low. You can't really afford to lose money so early (since you have a big -%, meaning that to have just +1 or +2 you have to decrease your research to maybe 50%), so it effectively prevents you from building any military unit, either clubman to fight Neanderthalians, wanderer to explore or chaser to hunt animals, until you have Tribal Warfare (which allows 30). You should allow maybe 5-10 free military units for Militia and/or Banditry civics...

Yes, I experienced that too, I thought free units encompassed military units as well but it does not. the latest version gives more free military units and less free units in the beginning. 4 + 0.25*population; I might have to increase this further though, needs more testing ^^.

 

[Rwn]

Yes, I experienced that too, I thought free units encompassed military units as well but it does not. the latest version gives more free military units and less free units in the beginning. 4 + 0.25*population; I might have to increase this further though, needs more testing ^^.

Great!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Less free units and more free military units imply a military bias being forced on the player. However I turn off Neanderthals as I it makes the beginning more similar to vanilla BtS where the barbarians don't start spawning straight away.

 

[Toffer90]

Less free units and more free military units imply a military bias being forced on the player. However I turn off Neanderthals as I it makes the beginning more similar to vanilla BtS where the barbarians don't start spawning straight away.

Can't really call 4 free military units a forced military bias on the player when you start with no gold and almost no way of earning gold through the prehistoric era^^.

Some civics will put a military bias on the player some will not; but I believe some military units should always be free to allow for some defense even with a bad economy.