My Torment

Dave P

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9
Once a year, every year since Civ III was released in 2001, I get a hankering to build a civilization and do some conquering. So with the memory of all the swearing and banging of fist on table that accompanied last years two or three months of frustration a dim memory, Civ III finds its way onto my hard drive once more.
What’s the problem? You might ask. Well folks I’m trapped trying to accomplish what I think may be an impossible quest, English, deity, huge default map, default rules, 16 civs, Oh and I almost forgot raging barbarians just to make it a little more of a challenge.
Am I some sort of masochist? Hmm, don’t know, you’ll have to ask that weird guy with the white coat who brings my tablets.
So why not play on an easier level? Well I’m a Civ II vet who beat every victory condition possible and when I have played Civ III on monarch I get bored as it turns into a stroll to victory. Emperor? Well yes but that’s a lot of effort for something that’s still going to leave me wanting the ultimate victory, so it’s all or nothing.

This time around I have played a couple of games up to around the start of AD before quitting. First one, I got rid of the Persians pretty effectively, but then realised there were one or two things I could have probably done better so quit. Second one, I built up ready for war against one of three nations. Russia, weak but the bordering part I would end up with after the AI jumped on the bandwagon and steals all the good bits was desert and not worth having. Rome, very nice piece of real estate but fighting legions with swordsmen is an uphill task, and finally Egypt the middle way, so that’s my choice.
Anyway to cut a long story short the AI then manufactures a situation which sees everyone except Rome and me at war and with nothing to do the Romans are massing on my borders so if I do go to war with Egypt it will no doubt be war on two fronts for me. I attack the Romans take a couple of cities and then it becomes obvious that its deadlock. I’ve seen enough and quit.

Those two examples were fun to play, but what usually gets me in the end is the mind numbing game of “Starting locations” I’ve literally spent hours with my left hand grotesquely locked in a sort of “OK” symbol which enables me to press Ctr/Shift/Q and my right index finger sore from tapping up and enter.
In order to attempt my trial by ordeal I need a good starting position and that means, a cow for settler factory, hills for the chance of iron and the swords I need for early war and a river, which although not really necessary, I like to have because I like my capital to lead the way with population without the constraint of aqueducts.
All this has to be there on start up as I have no time to move. If I don’t settle immediately it will take one more turn to reach writing, someone will beat me to it and I lose the one and only chance I have of getting a tech before the AI and with it a powerful trading tool, because not only is it a tech which they don’t posses but it also gives access to trading for communications with every other Civ on the continent.

Starting locations then. After immediately quitting every 9 square jungle/desert/ice start (Does anyone play on them?) and every other start that doesn’t meet with my exacting criteria I’m left with maybe one start in 20. I then check the location on the mini map. Half way up and my scout will be confronted by an ocean of desert or jungle once he move from the 21 square oasis which I see at start up. Half way across between West and East and your on an island, which spells death by isolation playing at this level.
So every 50 starts I actually do some playing and usually after a couple of minutes I do some swearing when Bismark or one of those other reprobates plants a city touching the borders of London.
Just out of a matter of interest, have any of you retired early and watched the defeat screen as it shows the cities being settled in order? It’s mighty mysterious how the human capital seems to act as a magnet for the AI settlers. I can understand civs trying to stop other civs from expanding but it seems like overkill when 3 or 4 AI civs all do it to the weakest civ on the map at the time. This kind of aggressive settling can make some maps untenable.
Assuming I make it this far I then have to negotiate crackpot loose cannons that cant be pacified by any means, my massive mountain range being barren of iron, whilst the Romans have two, one in each of the only hills within their lands and being beaten to writing by one turn. All of which spells a return to the drollery of the starting screen.

I wonder if this year will see me gaining the all illusive victory or will Civ III be returning to its box in a month or two with a huge self satisfied grin all over its smug face. My money is on the later. :(
 
Another promising start ends in tears. After finding the elusive Xanadu (Cow, river, hills close by) The settler factory has produced its first settler, my scout has discovered 3 civs and due to my sharp patter and training as a used tech salesman I have all the science available at present. Then crazy Cath of the Russians decides to attack London, when asked why she replied something about me calling her "Baby" during negotiations. Whatever the reason it was curtains for the English, with me their esteemed leader only saving his neck by pressing Ctrl/Alt/Del before suffering the ignoble fate of having worthless placed after my name.

Tough luck Cath, you may have beaten me this time but I still managed to deny you your victory. :lol:
 
It is possible to win on deity even with horrible start positions. See the link in my sig for a good example.

You need to improve. Period. Judging from what you say you're not full-ready for a win on deity and cherry-picking favourable start position is, in my opinion, a sort of cheating with yourself (it doesn't make you a better player than you currently are). Go back to emperor. Play. Replay. Replay again. You'll arrive at a point in which you can beat the AS easily. At this point retry your deity challenge again.
 
@Gyathaar
Thanks bud I’ve downloaded it should stop my index finger wearing down any further.

@tR1cKy
I didn’t say winning on deity was impossible. I said I thought winning as the English, deity, huge map, Civ 1.29, and raging barbarians might be impossible (Anybody done this?)
It’s all very well saying look at this win but you don’t tell us map size, how many civs, barbarians ect. All those settings can have an effect on strategy.
I can’t be bothered playing on the lesser levels, I play all games on hardest difficulty. If I get my ass kicked plenty on the way so what, its part of the fun.
 
Did you actually read it? Map stats are reported in the first page, post #5 :rolleyes:

About this:
I didn’t say winning on deity was impossible. I said I thought winning as the English, deity, huge map, Civ 1.29, and raging barbarians might be impossible (Anybody done this?)
For a player skilled enough to abitually win on deity, map size and selected civ are unimportant. In 90% of the cases he/she can win anyway. You simply lack the necessary skills. Playing 1 level below can help you to develop them, but if you "can't be bothered playing on the lesser levels" then so be it... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Just to say that doing as you do is not "playing the hardest level" at all. You want to cherry-pick a startpoint favourable enough to overcome your lack of skills. This is actually lowering the difficulty.
 
tR1cKy said:
For a player skilled enough to abitually win on deity, map size and selected civ are unimportant. In 90% of the cases he/she can win anyway. You simply lack the necessary skills. Playing 1 level below can help you to develop them, but if you "can't be bothered playing on the lesser levels" then so be it... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Just to say that doing as you do is not "playing the hardest level" at all. You want to cherry-pick a startpoint favourable enough to overcome your lack of skills. This is actually lowering the difficulty.

Sorry pal but I think your full of BS. It may say chieftan under my name but thats just the forum I'm a Civ 2 expert and although there are differences its still Civ.
Different Civs and map size ect do have a bearing on difficulty, your just saying they dont because you like to play as the easy Romans on tiny maps with no barbs. Whats wrong with you boy not man enough for a real challenge? :p
 
Tricky's right. Civ is a bit like throwing a baseball, football, whatever (you never forget how), but like those things you need practice. Picking it up after not playing for a year and never having beaten the hardest level previously is folly, and you cant really complain about not being able to win. Read some articles on here, and play at a lower level til you learn as much as there is to know. Civ2 and Civ3 are really different games. That being said, I hate it when people tell ME what to do, so feel free to disregard any and all advice. ;)
 
Dave P said:
Sorry pal but I think your full of BS. It may say chieftan under my name but thats just the forum I'm a Civ 2 expert and although there are differences its still Civ.
Different Civs and map size ect do have a bearing on difficulty, your just saying they dont because you like to play as the easy Romans on tiny maps with no barbs. Whats wrong with you boy not man enough for a real challenge? :p
First, it's you're not "your". So you would say "you're full of BS".

Second, after 2 times you still fail to read the post properly. The map is standard, not tiny. And the Romans are not easy at all. There are civs more suitable for a full-war style game.

And third, trolling doesn't work with me :p I suggest you to go away.
 
First, my original post was written tongue in cheek, you failed to detect that and came here offering advice when none was asked for.

Second, don’t give me any advice on writing English. I’m English, it’s my language and if I choose to use it incorrectly then I have more of a right to do so than most.

Finally, tiny, standard, bah what’s the difference anything less than huge with 16 civs is a cop out.
 
Well keep us posted on the start you eventually pick out and post some screens and a game log for those of us interested.
 
Dave P said:
First, my original post was written tongue in cheek, you failed to detect that and came here offering advice when none was asked for.
Usually, when someone posts here something about being unable to beat a certain difficulty level it's implied that he/she seeks advice. You said you didn't. So yours was just a rant. Acknowledged.
Second, don’t give me any advice on writing English. I’m English, it’s my language and if I choose to use it incorrectly then I have more of a right to do so than most.
All right. I guess who's who gave you "more of a right to do so than most"... whatever. But next time you want to insult me could you please use a correct language? I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Finally, tiny, standard, bah what’s the difference anything less than huge with 16 civs is a cop out.
There's a lot of difference between tiny, small, standard and large maps, but at this point it seems rather pointless to lecture you on it.

BTW, you're still trolling. Have i said you that this attitude don't work here? You'll end up in being banned if you insist on it.
 
IMHO huge with 16 civs is easier than tiny with 4 (on Deity). With more civs, there is more chance that there will be lagging civs that you can broker techs with. There is also less threat of a single runaway civ.
 
Going to personal flaming...I think this ain't are the best place to start it.
 
@Killercane
That’s what I thought this thread would be when I started it. I thought it might be a bit of fun for some of you guys to listen to my stories of having my but kicked.
As well as the Russians, the Germans have also done me over this afternoon. In both situations nothing could be done as it was too early in the game to defend against and after loading the game back in to before the attack and giving them everything accept London the following year they still attacked.
I kinda think that I will be making quite a few more false starts before I find a situation that might have some promise.

@Tricky
It wasn’t a rant it was just meant as a bit of fun.
Sorry if I confused you with my bastardised English it’s just that when you speak it all the time you tend to become a little careless.
It is pointless to lecture me about map sizes as my opinion is set in stone.
I aint trolling any more than you are and if this little disagreement is enough to get me banned from here, then I think a change from fascist government is needed.
Do you want to shake hands and sign a peace treaty?
 
I think he wants Invention, 30 gold, Dnepropetrovsk, and your WM for peace.
 
This isn't cheap one, rep hit allready done :D
 
Tomoyo said:
I think he wants Invention, 30 gold, Dnepropetrovsk, and your WM for peace.

No way, if I've reached the stage where I've invented invention then I'm too powerful to kiss ass, prepare for war!! :mad:
 
Tomo-chan, one of these days i'll drop dead in laughter after reading one of your posts... :lol: :lol: :lol:

@Dave: i'm more than willing to settle this thing now and for good. Just a little thing:
I aint trolling any more than you are and if this little disagreement is enough to get me banned from here, then I think a change from fascist government is needed.
My error was to give unwanted advice, because i mistakenly took your rant (or what you like to call it, BTW there's nothing wrong in ranting, i've done it a little times too) as an advice seek. You reacted with insults, and this isn't exactly the same thing.

I did as you just did once. I ranted, then i over-reacted to a poor guy who tried to give useful advice (hi Willem...), i was warned. Then i re-read my statement in a calm state, cursed to myself a few minutes then made the necessary apologies.

Usually such attidude is little tolerated everywhere. It's not because we're here, and it's not because it's me. And it's not a matter of being fascists. It's mainly a matter of respect.

Anyway, hands shaken and peace signed. Just hand over Invention, 30 gold, Dnepropetrovsk, and your WM.

(Sorry i couldn't resist... :lol: )
 
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